There's the choice of a GM if all things are equal, but we know all things aren't equal in this specific choice. So the hypothetical you pose isn't entirely representative of Gillis faces.
Let's say that, in this hypothetical scenario, Lundqvist was frustrated with how he was handled during the playoffs and suggested that he wouldn't stop the team from trading him. Let's also include that Lundqvist nixed a trade to another team at the draft (because he was hoping to go to a specific team), but that never came to fruition.
Anyways you're taking this off on a tangent because the OP I was discussing the issue with was focusing solely on playoff performance.
__________________
I told ya so. I was right all along!
I just find it interesting how someone would trade away arguably the top goalie in the NHL (I have him top 5 along with Luongo) for a relatively unproven goalie.
Not exactly a fair comparison. Lundqvist is three years younger than Luongo, and hasn't had as good a team infront of him.
If Lundqvist faulters in in his next three seasons ( if his team makes the playoffs) then he can be compaired to Luongo.
I like Luongo but I'm kinda crazy and like both our goaltenders. I say keep using them how they are, and ride one if they get hot. Other than that I think Schneider should be given a chance to start in the playoffs. If you want to give him a short leash I'm fine with that too. 2 bad games for him and the team( like Luongo last season) and I'd be more than happy giving Luongo the start.
Remember: The one time Luongo has won something big was coming off the bench after the first goalie faultered. He seems to thrive (as evidenced by this season) when he has something to prove and when the spotlight isn't shining as bright on him
I don't know why I am getting involved in this but there are also timing of goals and quality that can really impact how a team plays. The game 6 first goal was terrible both in timing and quality. Good and bad tending can impact how a team plays offense as well.
And, what pressure would a goalie have knowing that he has to pretty much pitch a shutout in order to win a game?
Let's say that, in this hypothetical scenario, Lundqvist was frustrated with how he was handled during the playoffs and suggested that he wouldn't stop the team from trading him. Let's also include that Lundqvist nixed a trade to another team at the draft (because he was hoping to go to a specific team), but that never came to fruition.
Anyways you're taking this off on a tangent because the OP I was discussing the issue with was focusing solely on playoff performance.
You posed the hypothetical, who would you trade?
Or are we being revisionist in saying that Luongo and Gillis did not come to a mutual agreement for him to be moved? Stats is one way to look at this. The question you posed is another... so I'm running with your line of reasoning here.
Or are we being revisionist in saying that Luongo and Gillis did not come to a mutual agreement for him to be moved? Stats is one way to look at this. The question you posed is another... so I'm running with your line of reasoning here.
So you would keep a guy that didn't want to stay? Mutual agreement implies both parties came to the conclusion that it was time for Luongo to move on. What's changed in that agreement? Nothing. They are both waiting for "when" it happens.
I would never keep a guy that didn't want to stay.
It's really too bad we can't keep both goalies long term. I love having 2 world class goalies that give us a chance to win every night. We're all going to miss these days when we lose one of them and have a "not so good" backup. Enjoy this while we have it!
So you would keep a guy that didn't want to stay? Mutual agreement implies both parties came to the conclusion that it was time for Luongo to move on. What's changed in that agreement? Nothing. They are both waiting for "when" it happens.
I would never keep a guy that didn't want to stay.
The idea that Luongo wants out is way over blown. He has actually shown everything to the contrary, unless he wants to make Gillis look foolish for moving him.
So you would keep a guy that didn't want to stay? Mutual agreement implies both parties came to the conclusion that it was time for Luongo to move on. What's changed in that agreement? Nothing. They are both waiting for "when" it happens.
I would never keep a guy that didn't want to stay.
You keep spinning it like Luongo doesn't want to stay here and the team has rubbed him the wrong way. It's not as if Cory Schneider wanted to stay here and split time with Lu after the playoffs. Luongo is being very mature. He accepts that Cory is a great goalie and if that is the way the canucks want to go, then he will do what is best for the team without getting in the way. Lu is all class. All I'm saying is that Luongo isn't refusing to stay here long-term because of what has happened in the past. If the Canucks want to keep Luongo and get a bigger return for Schneider, then I really do believe he'd like to stay here. Lu loves this team and will do whatever is best for this team.
So you would keep a guy that didn't want to stay? Mutual agreement implies both parties came to the conclusion that it was time for Luongo to move on. What's changed in that agreement? Nothing. They are both waiting for "when" it happens.
I would never keep a guy that didn't want to stay.
Can you give me a link where Luongo says he doesn't want to stay?
So you would keep a guy that didn't want to stay? Mutual agreement implies both parties came to the conclusion that it was time for Luongo to move on. What's changed in that agreement? Nothing. They are both waiting for "when" it happens.
I would never keep a guy that didn't want to stay.
What's changed? Let's see...Luongo has outplayed Schneider by a big margin this year so perhaps the Canucks management may be shifting their intentions of committing to Schneider as our guy? If the Canucks communicated that Schneider was going to be the 1 or 1A (with Luongo being the 2 or 1B) of course Luongo would want out. But if that's not the case, do you have any evidence that suggests Luongo would want out regardless?
The idea that Luongo wants out is way over blown. He has actually shown everything to the contrary, unless he wants to make Gillis look foolish for moving him.
What's he showing to the contrary? Just curious. He's playing well and being a good pro... is that what you mean?
There was a mutual agreement. Both parties coming to a conclusion. That means, Luongo agreed and Gillis agreed that Luongo will be moved eventually. No new information has changed that fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by luongo321
You keep spinning it like Luongo doesn't want to stay here and the team has rubbed him the wrong way. It's not as if Cory Schneider wanted to stay here and split time with Lu after the playoffs. Luongo is being very mature. He accepts that Cory is a great goalie and if that is the way the canucks want to go, then he will do what is best for the team without getting in the way. Lu is all class. All I'm saying is that Luongo's isn't refusing to stay here long-term because of what has happened in the past. If the Canucks want to keep Luongo and get a bigger return for Schneider, then I really do believe he'd like to stay here. Lu loves this team and will do whatever is best for this team.
There is no spin. Sorry. Gillis's own words.
It's not about refusing to stay here long-term. It's that he wants out and Gillis will do his job by accommodating his wishes. They've agreed for many months that it's time for Luongo to move on. This might have also been relayed to Liut and Schneider _before_ Schneider signed his new deal. Otherwise, who knows if Schnedier even signs? How would it look now to change the plan and move Schneider? I don't see how Gillis does it.
They both agreed. It wasn't one way, it was the both of them. I think people are discounting how much of a factor Luongo is in this decision.
What's changed? Let's see...Luongo has outplayed Schneider by a big margin this year so perhaps the Canucks management may be shifting their intentions of committing to Schneider as our guy? If the Canucks communicated that Schneider was going to be the 1 or 1A (with Luongo being the 2 or 1B) of course Luongo would want out. But if that's not the case, do you have any evidence that suggests Luongo would want out regardless?
There are no links, no clips and no evidence that Luongo wants out of Vancouver. BC knows it, we all know it, but in the absence of any other logical reason to trade the guy, the Luongo bashers are clinging to the "he doesn't want to be here" mantra.
What's he showing to the contrary? Just curious. He's playing well and being a good pro... is that what you mean?
There was a mutual agreement. Both parties coming to a conclusion. That means, Luongo agreed and Gillis agreed that Luongo will be moved eventually. No new information has changed that fact.
There is no spin. Sorry. Gillis's own words.
It's not about refusing to stay here long-term. It's that he wants out and Gillis will do his job by accommodating his wishes. They've agreed for many months that it's time for Luongo to move on. This might have also been relayed to Liut and Schneider _before_ Schneider signed his new deal. Otherwise, who knows if Schnedier even signs? How would it look now to change the plan and move Schneider? I don't see how Gillis does it.
They both agreed. It wasn't one way, it was the both of them. I think people are discounting how much of a factor Luongo is in this decision.
I don't agree with your assessment of this. Gillis isn't stupid enough to keep changing his words repeatedly. There is no point in causing anymore controversy. He has a good idea of what he can get for both goalies because he would have been hearing offers on cory in previous seasons. It's not like he has to go and explore what he can get for cory. He already has a pretty damn good idea of it. You're ignoring both goalies stats this season which shows that things may have changed in what is going on in MG's head. MG didn't expect Luongo to play this well this season.
I don't agree with your assessment of this. You're ignoring both goalies stats this season which shows that things may have changed in what is going on in MG's head. MG didn't expect Luongo to play this well this season.
There are no links, no clips and no evidence that Luongo wants out of Vancouver. BC knows it, we all know it, but in the absence of any other logical reason to trade the guy, the Luongo bashers are clinging to the "he doesn't want to be here" mantra.
Didn't Luongo want out of Florida after all those seasons where he knew that team wasn't going anywhere (from the bottom of the standings) - yet he ended up agreeing to stay (only to have Keenan trade him anyhow?). Yeah, there were reports "the Luongo camp" added last minute demands so Keenan got fed up with him & decided to unload him (tough to say whether it was all BS/pure PR move to claim that or not).
True he had more compelling reasons to stay in Florida but that doesn't change the fact that people can change their minds. Is the bridge burned? Who's to say one way or the other.
What's changed? Let's see...Luongo has outplayed Schneider by a big margin this year so perhaps the Canucks management may be shifting their intentions of committing to Schneider as our guy? If the Canucks communicated that Schneider was going to be the 1 or 1A (with Luongo being the 2 or 1B) of course Luongo would want out. But if that's not the case, do you have any evidence that suggests Luongo would want out regardless?
I have the evidence that they came to a mutual agreement to move (see link). No caveats were placed in that agreement, AFAIK, that states that should Luongo be outplaying Schneider at a certain point in the season, that the entire agreement gets thrown out, no.
They have an agreement. Just as it is probable that Schneider and Gillis had an agreement prior to him signing his current contract. These things don't get overturned lightly. Not even due to disparity in play. The agreement wasn't: "whoever the best turns out to be this year wins the net long-term". It was Luongo and Gillis agreeing it was time to move on, no caveats beyond just waiting for the right deal - which has been expressed by Gillis already.
We have Luongo by the balls, he signed the 12 year deal, he has to honour it.
It's evident to just about the entire hockey world, you can get more for Schneider. The difference between both goaltenders is negligible.
The age IMO isn't a factor, because you only get 2 guaranteed seasons of Schneider anyway.
... and it's not as if our team is going to get any better down the line. Sedins will start slowly declining over the next few years. No one knows how long Kesler will last with the type of game he plays. It is time to go all-in now.
It's evident to just about the entire hockey world, you can get more for Schneider. The difference between both goaltenders is negligible.
I don't think either point is "evident" - I see no reason to assume Schnedier fetches more, and frankly speaking, Luongo is meaningfully outplaying Schneider, both statistically and "with eyes".
I have the evidence that they came to a mutual agreement to move (see link). No caveats were placed in that agreement, AFAIK, that states that should Luongo be outplaying Schneider at a certain point in the season, that the entire agreement gets thrown out, no.
They have an agreement. Just as it is probable that Schneider and Gillis had an agreement prior to him signing his current contract. These things don't get overturned lightly. Not even due to disparity in play. The agreement wasn't: "whoever the best turns out to be this year wins the net long-term". It was Luongo and Gillis agreeing it was time to move on, no caveats beyond just waiting for the right deal - which has been expressed by Gillis already.
So you're using a reporters words, not Luongo's or Gillis's? How do you know nothing has changed? Luongo certainly appears to be the starter now.
For all we know the reason he wanted out is because he didn't want to get in the way and could tell that Schneider was the new starter in Vancouver. I don't see why that makes it mandatory that Luongo be the one traded.
And I personally don't even care who gets traded, just saying that opinions and circumstances change all the time. I'll be just as happy with either goalie.
There are no links, no clips and no evidence that Luongo wants out of Vancouver. BC knows it, we all know it, but in the absence of any other logical reason to trade the guy, the Luongo bashers are clinging to the "he doesn't want to be here" mantra.
I don't agree with your assessment of this. Gillis isn't stupid enough to keep changing his words repeatedly. There is no point in causing anymore controversy. He has a good idea of what he can get for both goalies because he would have been hearing offers on cory in previous seasons. It's not like he has to go and explore what he can get for cory. He already has a pretty damn good idea of it. You're ignoring both goalies stats this season which shows that things may have changed in what is going on in MG's head. MG didn't expect Luongo to play this well this season.
What words is Gillis changing repeatedly?
Luongo is playing like he always has. I'm not ignoring the stats, I'm glad Luongo is doing well. I also know it's not going to make a difference to who stays long-term. These are two disparate issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by arsmaster
Even to the detriment of the team?
I wouldn't.
We have Luongo by the balls, he signed the 12 year deal, he has to honour it.
It's evident to just about the entire hockey world, you can get more for Schneider. The difference between both goaltenders is negligible.
The age IMO isn't a factor, because you only get 2 guaranteed seasons of Schneider anyway.
With Gillis being the players GM he is, do you believe he has it in him to keep a guy that doesn't want to stay long-term? Contractually, yes, he could force Luongo to stay. Ideally, he would not. I think we both know that.
