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Old
04-14-2013, 03:30 AM
  #326
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Originally Posted by Mentallydull View Post
So the question becomes: Do you let Krueger go even though it likely won't change anything due to inept management or do you keep him for now for a little consistency until (if) a management change is done?
The current management will likely just replace him with Mact or Bucky, so if you are ok with that, then I guess let him go.

Replacing him with either of those two or keeping him in place.......neither of those are particularly attractive options.

And again, none of that really matters if the management team is left intact.

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04-14-2013, 03:32 AM
  #327
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
The current management will likely just replace him with Mact or Bucky, so if you are ok with that, then I guess let him go.

Replacing him with either of those two or keeping him in place.......neither of those are particularly attractive options.

And again, none of that really matters if the management team is left intact.
Frankly I'm for keeping Krueger at this point. If you fire the coach but keep the management, **** won't change - the only thing you'll have happen is everyone having to learn a new system yet again.

In my opinion, keep Krueger for now (at the very least he has our special teams firing on all cylinders) and if the new GM (if it ever happens) decides he wants a new coach, then let him decide.

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04-14-2013, 03:32 AM
  #328
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Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
It's painfully obvious that the organization needs a complete purge from top to bottom like the Habs executed last summer.
Yup let's clear out all the English speaking management types

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04-14-2013, 03:34 AM
  #329
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Hiring Burke and Ruff are the obvious choices.

They are experienced and the best candidates available IMO. I don't care if Burke huffs and puffs a lot in the media, he gets **** done and is far better than Tambellini at identifying talent. There's a reason why the Canucks passed on promoting Tambellini over and over (and over) again for their GM position, whereas Burke has given them their franchise cornerstones (the Sedins + Kesler).

We can't risk taking a chance on some fancy "left field" pick with no experience anymore. Another failed coach or GM would be disastrous, we need proven people.

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04-14-2013, 03:42 AM
  #330
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Originally Posted by Mentallydull View Post
Frankly I'm for keeping Krueger at this point. If you fire the coach but keep the management, **** won't change - the only thing you'll have happen is everyone having to learn a new system yet again.

In my opinion, keep Krueger for now (at the very least he has our special teams firing on all cylinders) and if the new GM (if it ever happens) decides he wants a new coach, then let him decide.
If Renney was fired because the team underperformed, how do you not fire Krueger? Or does that matter? Im pretty sure we have one winnable game left. I wouldnt be surprised if we only win one game the rest of the way. Could you still keep Krueger after that?

That's gonna be a pretty hard sell for the fans I would think. They arent likely to be satisfied with just firing the coach either.

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04-14-2013, 03:45 AM
  #331
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Not a fan of Burke or Ruff tbh.

Burke does get results, but he also has a tendency to burn a team's prospects/development system to the ground in the process (Vancouver, Anaheim, the Kessel trade).

As for Ruff, I think the game has passed him by. He hasn't gotten results for a couple of years and some of their younger players seem to have gone backwards during his tenure.

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04-14-2013, 03:47 AM
  #332
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Originally Posted by Baggers View Post
Not a fan of Burke or Ruff tbh.

Burke does get results, but he also has a tendency to burn a team's prospects/development system to the ground in the process (Vancouver, Anaheim, the Kessel trade).

As for Ruff, I think the game has passed him by. He hasn't gotten results for a couple of years and some of their younger players seem to have gone backwards during his tenure.
All that matters. Kadri, Justin Schultz, the Sedins, Kesler, and many others were drafted by him.

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Old
04-14-2013, 03:48 AM
  #333
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
If Renney was fired because the team underperformed, how do you not fire Krueger? Or does that matter? Im pretty sure we have one winnable game left. I wouldnt be surprised if we only win one game the rest of the way. Could you still keep Krueger after that?

That's gonna be a pretty hard sell for the fans I would think. They arent likely to be satisfied with just firing the coach either.
I say you keep Krueger because at this point it's fairly obvious it's not the coaching that's an issue. We fired MacTavish as we suspected that he was the issue (I was a very big proponent of this) and brought in Quinn. Same ****, different day. Same thing happened with Renney and now it's happening with Krueger again.

I think you keep Krueger at this point for at least a little consistency in the room and a little consistency to the outside world. If we're approaching coaches to come work for us and they see that one losing season is grounds for being fired, I'd imagine it'd be pretty hard to lure someone to come work for us.

Long term I'm not sure Krueger is the answer (I haven't seen enough of him to be sure) but we KNOW there's an issue with the management so firing the coach again isn't going to fix anything.

Let him stay at least another season to see if whatever he's doing starts working - our management problems won't be fixed by next year anyways and, as a result, we won't be a winning team again.

Or if you just want a more simplistic answer - what do we really have to lose?

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04-14-2013, 03:51 AM
  #334
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Originally Posted by Mentallydull View Post
I say you keep Krueger because at this point it's fairly obvious it's not the coaching that's an issue. We fired MacTavish as we suspected that he was the issue (I was a very big proponent of this) and brought in Quinn. Same ****, different day. Same thing happened with Renney and now it's happening with Krueger again.

I think you keep Krueger at this point for at least a little consistency in the room and a little consistency to the outside world. If we're approaching coaches to come work for us and they see that one losing season is grounds for being fired, I'd imagine it'd be pretty hard to lure someone to come work for us.

Long term I'm not sure Krueger is the answer (I haven't seen enough of him to be sure) but we KNOW there's an issue with the management so firing the coach again isn't going to fix anything.

Let him stay at least another season to see if whatever he's doing starts working - our management problems won't be fixed by next year anyways and, as a result, we won't be a winning team again.

Or if you just want a more simplistic answer - what do we really have to lose?
To be honest I think we've gotten worse under Krueger. The offense in particular frightens me. How can it go so cold so often?

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04-14-2013, 03:53 AM
  #335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentallydull View Post
I say you keep Krueger because at this point it's fairly obvious it's not the coaching that's an issue. We fired MacTavish as we suspected that he was the issue (I was a very big proponent of this) and brought in Quinn. Same ****, different day. Same thing happened with Renney and now it's happening with Krueger again.

I think you keep Krueger at this point for at least a little consistency in the room and a little consistency to the outside world. If we're approaching coaches to come work for us and they see that one losing season is grounds for being fired, I'd imagine it'd be pretty hard to lure someone to come work for us.

Long term I'm not sure Krueger is the answer (I haven't seen enough of him to be sure) but we KNOW there's an issue with the management so firing the coach again isn't going to fix anything.

Let him stay at least another season to see if whatever he's doing starts working - our management problems won't be fixed by next year anyways and, as a result, we won't be a winning team again.

Or if you just want a more simplistic answer - what do we really have to lose?
Mact, Renney and Krueger are all interchangeable imo. Like brand name vs generic/jobber car parts. Quinn was the only guy who was different, and his roster had none of the star power kids and was completely destroyed by injury.

I do agree that management is THE biggest problem and the most urgent thing to fix.

As to your question, what do we have to lose? The players confidence in themselves, each other, the organization. Fans, viewers, possibly sth's (although it would appear that is unlikely).

Maybe some of the young stars get frustrated and ask for a trade?

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04-14-2013, 03:57 AM
  #336
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
To be honest I think we've gotten worse under Krueger. The offense in particular frightens me. How can it go so cold so often?
You have players that know what the kids are all about and teams set up gameplans to match it.

We don't have the size up front to create any room for our skill players and as a result we get shut down constantly - at least that's my opinion.

When teams aren't able to shut down the top line, like the PP, they excel (we were #5 in the league before the game tonight I believe).

The whole organization needs a big shake-up but until management is changed I just don't see a coaching change doing any good. Yet another year of learning a new system, more rough patches, more of the same old, then we're going to be asking for another coach again next year.

I can understand that people would be frustrated with some of the coaching decisions (I am as well) but I just think there are more negatives than positives that would come out of it.

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04-14-2013, 04:08 AM
  #337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Mact, Renney and Krueger are all interchangeable imo. Like brand name vs generic/jobber car parts. Quinn was the only guy who was different, and his roster had none of the star power kids and was completely destroyed by injury.

I do agree that management is THE biggest problem and the most urgent thing to fix.

As to your question, what do we have to lose? The players confidence in themselves, each other, the organization. Fans, viewers, possibly sth's (although it would appear that is unlikely).

Maybe some of the young stars get frustrated and ask for a trade?
I'm trying to find a way to express what I'm thinking in writing but I don't think it's coming across very well.

I think we can agree that if the coaching changes but the management doesn't, very little is going to change, right?

As a result, if you DO have the coaching change and we're STILL ******** the bed, you're STILL going to have the issues: "players confidence in themselves, each other, the organization, fans, viewers, possibly sth's, players requesting trades".

So if you're still going to have all of the same issues regardless, what's the point? You're essentially firing the coach for the sake of aesthetics.

The pros:
* You have a new face behind the bench (much like this season, and last, and the one before that)
* You have a new system in place
* Potential to do better to an extent

The cons:
* Potential loss of confidence - If the team doesn't pick things up they start feeling more and more like it's something they're doing
* Learning a new system and going through the same rough patches at the beginning of this season
* Considering the management's hirings in the past, a good chance the coach is very similar to Krueger, MacT, Renney
* You have a harder and harder time finding people who WANT to coach here since they see the margin of error is non-existent
* There's a chance (though not very likely) that Krueger's teachings come together into something good that we haven't seen yet
* The fan base sees it as another copout by management with potential fallout in terms of viewers/fans

I, personally, just don't see the point. Give Krueger another season (a FULL one) with practice time/off-season workouts to see if he can realize his vision of what he wants this team to be.

If it's the same old **** then fire him but realize it's likely not going to do anything.

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04-14-2013, 05:33 AM
  #338
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This mess won't be fixed by simply firing the coach. Fire management, hire new management let them get the lay of the land and they can fire and hire a new coach if they want. Firing the coach at this point is pointless, even if it turned us around at this point the higher draft pick is more in our best interests rather than an extra 2 to 3 wins to end the season, which could put us 3-5 spots lower in the pecking order.

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04-14-2013, 05:47 AM
  #339
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You can watch the post game interview at edmontonoilers.com just go to videos

It's not really about his comments it's simply that he's not the right coach for our club. He is a defensive coach. He created a new problem this year in 5 on 5 scoring
He could be more effective in Nashville or Phoenix but his game plan is bad for our players
A new coach can make a huge impact I've seen it time and time again.
Some say its on management to provide better personnel and I don't disagree but it's on Krueger to get the best out of the group we have

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04-14-2013, 05:52 AM
  #340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 402 View Post
You can watch the post game interview at edmontonoilers.com just go to videos

It's not really about his comments it's simply that he's not the right coach for our club. He is a defensive coach. He created a new problem this year in 5 on 5 scoring
He could be more effective in Nashville or Phoenix but his game plan is bad for our players
A new coach can make a huge impact I've seen it time and time again.
Some say its on management to provide better personnel and I don't disagree but it's on Krueger to get the best out of the group we have
The question is: What if this IS the best we can get out of the group we have?

Arguments can be made we were better last year but counter-arguments can be made we had different personnel last year, teams are preparing for our kids this year, and (perhaps most importantly) there was very little practice time this year to practice the new system.

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04-14-2013, 05:54 AM
  #341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 402 View Post
You can watch the post game interview at edmontonoilers.com just go to videos

It's not really about his comments it's simply that he's not the right coach for our club. He is a defensive coach. He created a new problem this year in 5 on 5 scoring
He could be more effective in Nashville or Phoenix but his game plan is bad for our players
A new coach can make a huge impact I've seen it time and time again.
Some say its on management to provide better personnel and I don't disagree but it's on Krueger to get the best out of the group we have
The NHL is in the middle of another deadpuck era, every coach is hyper defensive now. The only clubs that aren't playing passive neutral zone trap defensive systems these days are the bad teams.

If the Oilers can't play defense first in the modern NHL, then they have the wrong players, not the wrong coach.

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04-14-2013, 06:02 AM
  #342
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Originally Posted by Tarus View Post
If the Oilers can't play defense first in the modern NHL, then they have the wrong players, not the wrong coach.
That's a completely new rebuild. The best thing we can hope for is the league to go back to offensive systems or find a coach who can teach our guys to break through the defensive systems.

I personally refuse to wait through another rebuild or watch these guys lose playing a system they were never meant to play.

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04-14-2013, 07:00 AM
  #343
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What the hell makes you guys think that Burke would come to edmonton.. And I know this might sound crazy but I think Ray Ferraro would make an awesome coach..

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04-14-2013, 07:20 AM
  #344
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My only concern with Krueger is getting the group ready to play, as we've come out flat numerous times this season.

His systems are vastly better than Renney's, (which are poorly executed due to lack of talent) and he's changed strategy on the fly and per opponent, which Renney never did. He also didn't shelter the kids, which will lead to them becoming better players.

IMO, the Oilers should fire the assistants that he didn't get to choose, let him pick his own coaching team, and worry about fixing things higher up, like our putrid pro scouting, and the mess that is GM and whoever is really calling the shots on roster decisions.

Maybe he needs a old-school assistant to push the players a bit more. Coaching wise, Krueger is sound, but again, my concern is motivation. Still, nothing wrong that 4 big, skilled veteran players in the bottom six and 2 more good defenseman can't fix.


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Old
04-14-2013, 07:22 AM
  #345
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What the hell makes you guys think that Burke would come to edmonton.
I think the fact that he doesn't have a job as a GM.

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04-14-2013, 08:44 AM
  #346
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bwahahahaha

love this team

"Hold on let me check.....Yes, yes they have checked out. Next question."
I was thinking the same thing. Damn this is a joke

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04-14-2013, 08:46 AM
  #347
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Originally Posted by Baggers View Post
Not a fan of Burke or Ruff tbh.

Burke does get results, but he also has a tendency to burn a team's prospects/development system to the ground in the process (Vancouver, Anaheim, the Kessel trade).

As for Ruff, I think the game has passed him by. He hasn't gotten results for a couple of years and some of their younger players seem to have gone backwards during his tenure.
Not even Burke is stupid enough to trade Hall, RNH, and Yakupov, and would probably only trade Eberle for a top pairing dman. The only reason he had to make the Kessel trade was because the Leafs were picking 5-10 year after year and he needed an elite offensive player to build around. How was he supposed to know the Leafs would play themselves into a position to draft one? Burke is the type of person who sees a player he likes and he WILL get him without "screwing over the team". He got Henrik and Daniel, while the only thing significant he lost was McCabe. He got guys like Dion Phaneuf for jack ****. You can point to the Kessel trade all you want, but to this day, he is still the best player in that trade. Looking at his trade history, Burke is the type of GM who could snake a team into coughing up Cam Fowler or Tyler Myers for Ales Hemsky+Nick Schultz or something.

Speaking of Myers, Ruff may have screwed him up, but he can't possibly be worse than Krueger right?

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04-14-2013, 09:02 AM
  #348
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There is no chance at all of the oilers ever hiring burke, none. There is very very little chance of ever hiring ruff. People need to realize that MacT is going to be either the next coach or gm of this team. Just accept it.

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04-14-2013, 09:56 AM
  #349
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You can't fire Krueger for three reasons:

- its already a revolving door of coaches here the last 4 years
- he's only been here a shortened season
- clearly this team has issues no coach can solve

Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of Krueger. But for crying out loud, if we fire Krueger, guess who hires the next coach? You all know what step 1 is, so close this thread, focus on step 1, and we'll get to step 2 later. There are no short cuts in hockey.

Fire Tabellini. Nothing else matters until then. Nothing.

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04-14-2013, 10:00 AM
  #350
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Originally Posted by stratedge View Post
You can't fire Krueger for three reasons:

- its already a revolving door of coaches here the last 4 years
- he's only been here a shortened season
- clearly this team has issues no coach can solve

Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of Krueger. But for crying out loud, if we fire Krueger, guess who hires the next coach? You all know what step 1 is, so close this thread, focus on step 1, and we'll get to step 2 later. There are no short cuts in hockey.

Fire Tabellini. Nothing else matters until then. Nothing.
Firing Tambellini is just window dressing.

Lowe is the one ultimately calling the shots, and no gm worth his salt is going to come here to be his hand maiden.

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