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OT Sacramento looking to finance new arena; UPD NBA rejects relocation to Seattle bid

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Old
03-25-2013, 11:23 AM
  #401
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Originally Posted by Clowe Me View Post
If this move to Seattle goes through, Sacramento would have to be #1 for getting an existing team, or expansion (unlikely at this time).
They sure would. Need to build that arena in the plaza though, but I'm guessing that is obvious one way or another

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03-25-2013, 11:26 AM
  #402
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Why would OKC want to keep Seattle's history? Why would Seattle want to keep Sacramento's, if the move goes down?

Nothing money can't fix.
True.

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Originally Posted by Clowe Me View Post
If this move to Seattle goes through, Sacramento would have to be #1 for getting an existing team, or expansion (unlikely at this time).
I was just speculating with the KC Kings, but you're probably right if Sacramento can get that arena built. I wasn't even thinking about Sacramento as an option for some reason.

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03-25-2013, 12:44 PM
  #403
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Originally Posted by superdeluxe View Post
They sure would. Need to build that arena in the plaza though, but I'm guessing that is obvious one way or another
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Originally Posted by Stonewall View Post

I was just speculating with the KC Kings, but you're probably right if Sacramento can get that arena built. I wasn't even thinking about Sacramento as an option for some reason.
KJ said long before Hansen and the Maloof's struck a deal that Sacramento would get an arena with or without the Kings. I know this deal is contingent on the Kings staying, but, an arena will get done here one way or another.

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03-25-2013, 01:56 PM
  #404
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Originally Posted by Clowe Me View Post
KJ said long before Hansen and the Maloof's struck a deal that Sacramento would get an arena with or without the Kings. I know this deal is contingent on the Kings staying, but, an arena will get done here one way or another.
There was a more recent update where the city manager said arena would not get built if the Kings are not staying, I can go find the article if you want.

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03-25-2013, 03:47 PM
  #405
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There was a more recent update where the city manager said arena would not get built if the Kings are not staying, I can go find the article if you want.
Sure.

I have to think that was more of just pressuring KJ and co. to get this deal done. I can't see the city not going forward with a new arena with Arco being a dump.

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03-25-2013, 04:13 PM
  #406
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The more I learn about the NBA the more I dislike their leadership and owners group. That article about the Sonics banners and championship uniforms being taken from a Seattle hall of fame and going to OK makes me want to vomit. Ditto for this mess in Sacramento. The NBA should have simply expanded to OK. Instead they have toyed with the hearts of two fan-bases and have burned bridges in two cities.

I also had another thought: I wonder if the NBA is going to look at the big picture in Seattle with the NHL. Surely they want to get back to the emerald city, but if Sacramento can get a new arena in place, would the NBA consider keeping the Kings in Sacramento, so they can block the NHL from Seattle? The NBA could always grant an expansion franchise to Seattle later.

I believe that the only real shot Seattle has of getting a team is if the Coyotes are relocated. I don't think expansion would work there. The timing is pretty sensitive though. Without an arena agreement in place by this summer there's a pretty good chance Seattle will miss out on the Coyotes.

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03-25-2013, 04:16 PM
  #407
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Originally Posted by silvercanuck View Post
I believe that the only real shot Seattle has of getting a team is if the Coyotes are relocated. I don't think expansion would work there. The timing is pretty sensitive though. Without an arena agreement in place by this summer there's a pretty good chance Seattle will miss out on the Coyotes.
Well for better or worse we should know by April 19th.

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03-25-2013, 04:24 PM
  #408
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I'm still curious though. I don't really know anything about the NBA's leadership group other than the apparent fact that they don't seem to mind tearing out the hearts out of their fans. Do they think strategically about markets like this? What happens if the Kings stay put?

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03-25-2013, 04:26 PM
  #409
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I'm still curious though. I don't really know anything about the NBA's leadership group other than the apparent fact that they don't seem to mind tearing out the hearts out of their fans. Do they think strategically about markets like this? What happens if the Kings stay put?
I think whoever wins out will get an NHL team one way or the other.

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03-25-2013, 04:37 PM
  #410
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I think whoever wins out will get an NHL team one way or the other.
Sacramento could get an NHL team?

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03-25-2013, 04:44 PM
  #411
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Sacramento could get an NHL team?
There are more than enough people to support one.

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03-25-2013, 04:48 PM
  #412
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Originally Posted by silvercanuck View Post
I'm still curious though. I don't really know anything about the NBA's leadership group other than the apparent fact that they don't seem to mind tearing out the hearts out of their fans. Do they think strategically about markets like this? What happens if the Kings stay put?
I think they wanted to make a example of Seattle. A team 40+ years from #12 market in the country and they took it away.

If the Kings stay put..I think thats it for this generation. We will never see a private deal like this from the collection of guys that we have in Seattle.

We will see what happens.

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03-25-2013, 04:49 PM
  #413
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Originally Posted by Rafa Nadal View Post
Sacramento could get an NHL team?
I think their chance goes way up if they lose the Kings for sure. Sacramento would be the largest market in the United States without a Pro Franchise.

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03-25-2013, 04:56 PM
  #414
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I think their chance goes way up if they lose the Kings for sure. Sacramento would be the largest market in the United States without a Pro Franchise.
I think that'd be great. San Jose could use a local rivalry (I know they're two different markets, but I guess you can consider it "local"). Would Sacto Sharks fans immediately convert?

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03-25-2013, 04:56 PM
  #415
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There are more than enough people to support one.
Just because you have an American city with 1 or 2 million people, doesn't mean it will automatically support a hockey team. Even with 4 or 5 million, Phoenix has proven it is not a viable hockey market because there isn't enough of a fanbase willing to support the team, and they have had about 16 years to prove that but never could.

There is zero evidence Sacramento would be a lucrative hockey market, ever. That needs to be proven first before ever being considered to house an NHL franchise.

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03-25-2013, 04:59 PM
  #416
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Originally Posted by Puckschmuck View Post
Just because you have an American city with 1 or 2 million people, doesn't mean it will automatically support a hockey team. Even with 4 or 5 million, Phoenix has proven it is not a viable hockey market because there isn't enough of a fanbase willing to support the team, and they have had about 16 years to prove that but never could.

There is zero evidence Sacramento would be a lucrative hockey market, ever. That needs to be proven first before ever being considered to house an NHL franchise.
Well if you don't currently have a NHL franchise, how do you prove you are a market?

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03-25-2013, 05:15 PM
  #417
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Well if you don't currently have a NHL franchise, how do you prove you are a market?
As has been mentionned numerous times, start off with a level of hockey like the AHL and physically demonstrate that there is a demand for hockey. After a few decades or so, if there appears to be a demand that is consistent, then test the waters with a team.

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03-25-2013, 07:56 PM
  #418
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Originally Posted by Puckschmuck View Post
Just because you have an American city with 1 or 2 million people, doesn't mean it will automatically support a hockey team. Even with 4 or 5 million, Phoenix has proven it is not a viable hockey market because there isn't enough of a fanbase willing to support the team, and they have had about 16 years to prove that but never could.

There is zero evidence Sacramento would be a lucrative hockey market, ever. That needs to be proven first before ever being considered to house an NHL franchise.
Phoenix is only evidence of what happens when you have incompetent management running the club...same for Atlanta. There is plenty of evidence that Sacramento would be a lucrative market. You simply don't care to acknowledge it, plain and simple.

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As has been mentionned numerous times, start off with a level of hockey like the AHL and physically demonstrate that there is a demand for hockey. After a few decades or so, if there appears to be a demand that is consistent, then test the waters with a team.
It has been proven throughout history that an AHL or lesser league means diddly squat about a market's ability to support a franchise. If so, Philadelphia would have never gotten a team. If it mattered, Atlanta and Phoenix would have had successful franchises. San Jose never had a successful lower level franchise to 'prove its worth'.

When Sacramento is finished with whatever their arena plan may be, they will be in line for an NHL team. Either that team comes in as a second tenant or is the main tenant. There are plenty of transplants that have essentially laid the groundwork for rec league hockey and it is a successful setup. That groundwork was helped out by the Sharks' influence as well. The Stockton ECHL team has done pretty well for itself considering the circumstances in that area.

Essentially, the same people that were against San Jose getting a team 20 years ago are the same people against Sacramento getting a hockey team. In reality, Sacramento is in a better position now than San Jose was all those years ago. There's a better foundation of hockey in this region than there was in San Jose then.

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03-25-2013, 08:12 PM
  #419
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Please yes @ Sacramento getting an NHL franchise. I would ****ing love that.

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03-25-2013, 08:15 PM
  #420
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It has been proven throughout history that an AHL or lesser league means diddly squat about a market's ability to support a franchise.
Hershey is the top market for a relocated or expansion NHL franchise.

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03-25-2013, 08:55 PM
  #421
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There is plenty of evidence that Sacramento would be a lucrative market. You simply don't care to acknowledge it, plain and simple
So according to you, there is overwhelming evidence to prove that Sacramento will be a goldmine for the NHL. By all means, please share with us what you claim to be real. I'm dying to see this.


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03-25-2013, 09:12 PM
  #422
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So according to you, there is overwhelming evidence to prove that Sacramento will be a goldmine for the NHL. By all means, please share with us what you claim to be is real. I'm dying to see this.
Already starting the straw man, are we? Plenty != overwhelming Lucrative != goldmine

San Jose is lucrative. Toronto is a goldmine. Sacramento can be lucrative for the league under the right circumstances. Another GTA team is a goldmine. The demographics in this area would embrace a hockey team...especially if it is the only one in the region.

You want evidence? Provide some of your own for the statements you made. You want to cherrypick comments like having an AHL team to prove your worth and there is zero evidence that Sacramento would be a lucrative hockey market. Prove it. I think that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. I doubt you have a single solitary clue about the region to speak about anything regarding the region.

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03-25-2013, 09:13 PM
  #423
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Already starting the straw man, are we? Plenty != overwhelming Lucrative != goldmine

San Jose is lucrative. Toronto is a goldmine. Sacramento can be lucrative for the league under the right circumstances. Another GTA team is a goldmine. The demographics in this area would embrace a hockey team...especially if it is the only one in the region.

You want evidence? Provide some of your own for the statements you made. You want to cherrypick comments like having an AHL team to prove your worth and there is zero evidence that Sacramento would be a lucrative hockey market. Prove it. I think that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. I doubt you have a single solitary clue about the region to speak about anything regarding the region.
So in otherwords, you have nothing.

Got it.

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03-25-2013, 09:21 PM
  #424
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So in otherwords, you have nothing.

Got it.
I actually do. You're the one that made the claim so you ought to be the one backing it up. Sacramento will soon have an arena for it, an owner with an NHL ownership background, enough corporate support, enough of the demographics, and has already seen a taste of NHL hockey when the Sharks had preseason games here that sold out at a crappy Arco Arena.

You have well Phoenix and Atlanta failed thus hockey anywhere else that's not a traditional market will fail. You have places that don't have an NHL team need an AHL team to succeed in order to earn the right to have a franchise. San Jose didn't. If Seattle gets a team, they wouldn't. I don't remember Los Angeles or Anaheim having one prior to their teams showing up. Where was Denver's successful minor league team prior to the Avalanche's arrival?

What do you got again?

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03-25-2013, 09:28 PM
  #425
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I actually do. You're the one that made the claim so you ought to be the one backing it up. Sacramento will soon have an arena for it, an owner with an NHL ownership background, enough corporate support, enough of the demographics, and has already seen a taste of NHL hockey when the Sharks had preseason games here that sold out at a crappy Arco Arena.

You have well Phoenix and Atlanta failed thus hockey anywhere else that's not a traditional market will fail. You have places that don't have an NHL team need an AHL team to succeed in order to earn the right to have a franchise. San Jose didn't. If Seattle gets a team, they wouldn't. I don't remember Los Angeles or Anaheim having one prior to their teams showing up. Where was Denver's successful minor league team prior to the Avalanche's arrival?

What do you got again?
Wow. I ask a simple question. But instead of trying to educate me, you get all defensive, make random statements about other markets, state you have evidence that Sacramento is a supposedly strong hockey market but provide nothing to back up this claim and then turn around and proceed to scold me for even asking such a question. This is a clear indication to me that you talk big but can't provide me an answer to my question and back up your claim.

I'll ask you one more time. Is there any evidence to show that Sacramento has a strong history of supporting hockey which could indicate that it could become a lucrative NHL hockey market? If there is, can you please provide it and educate us.


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