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Colorado/Calgary/Pittsburgh

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02-24-2013, 02:05 AM
  #1
dahrougem2
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Colorado/Calgary/Pittsburgh

With the proposed new conferences being discussed, it seems as though Colorado will potentially no longer be in the same conference as Calgary, which makes this trade a little easier to make.


To Pittsburgh:

Jarome Iginla
Greg Zanon
David Jones
Stefan Elliott


To Calgary:

Ryan O'Reilly
Tyler Kennedy
Olli Maataa
2013 1st Round Pick PIT (Conditional; only if Iginla resigns)
2014 2nd Round Pick COL


To Colorado:

Brooks Orpik
Derrick Pouliot
Mikael Backlund


Pittsburgh makes this trade because of long-time rumors of bringing Iginla in to play with Crosby for that added offensive punch for a cup run, along with bringing in a two-time 20 goal scorer David Jones who could play with Sutter and Cooke. Zanon is added to hopefully make up for Orpik's loss, and Elliott is a good young prospect with offensive upside.

Calgary makes this trade to give Jarome a shot at the cup after being loyal for so many years. They acquire a potential number 1 centre but at the very least a number 2 centre in Ryan O'Reilly who is only 22, a serviceable right winger Tyler Kennedy who can play on the 3rd line and potentially play 2nd line minutes. Olli Maataa is a great young defensive prospect for the Flames to receive, and the picks are self-explanitory

Colorado makes this trade to get rid of the mess known as Ryan O'Reilly and to shore up the defense. Bringing in Orpik allows the Avs to play him with Erik Johnson and finally give him someone who actually knows how to play hockey as a defense partner. They receive Pouliot who looks like a great defensive prospect, though Pens fans you guys can comment on this one I know he is ranked 1st on hockeysfuture, so you may not want to give him up, any suggestions as to who replaces him would be great. Lastly, Backlund is acquired to play on the 3rd line, making up for O'Reilly's loss.


I hope the value is there, the only thing that I am iffy about is including Pouliot so if Pens fans want to remove him and suggest someone else feel free to. All in all, does it cover needs for all teams involved? I know as an Avs fan I'd like this deal

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02-24-2013, 02:09 AM
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Honour Over Glory
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No thanks from the Pens.

We're giving up a potential 1st, Maatta, Pouliot, TK and Orpik and getting a horribly over paid Jones, Zanon (really? what the hell), and Elliott an offensive defenseman that can't put up decent offensive numbers at the AHL level and is a soft player.

Pens are getting ripped off.

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02-24-2013, 02:10 AM
  #3
dahrougem2
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Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
No thanks from the Pens.

We're giving up a potential 1st, Maatta, Pouliot, TK and Orpik and getting a horribly over paid Jones, Zanon (really? what the hell), and Elliott an offensive defenseman that can't put up decent offensive numbers at the AHL level and is a soft player.

Pens are getting ripped off.
Lol nice comment on Zanon. I really didn't know who else to include in order to help make up for the loss of Orpik, and I thought he was better suited to being more like Orpik then O'Brien or O'Byrne.

What would you do to make the deal better for Pittsburgh?

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02-24-2013, 02:11 AM
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Colorado gets bent over IMO.

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02-24-2013, 02:15 AM
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Killswitch7187
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Wow, the Penguins get hosed.

Give up 2 prospects, 2 1st rounders, and our top-4 defenseman for an impending UFA, an overpriced winger, a bottom-pairing defenseman that has no value and Elliott. He may be a nice young player, but we have that in Despres.

No. Just no.

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02-24-2013, 02:16 AM
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Honour Over Glory
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dahrougem2 View Post
Lol nice comment on Zanon. I really didn't know who else to include in order to help make up for the loss of Orpik, and I thought he was better suited to being more like Orpik then O'Brien or O'Byrne.

What would you do to make the deal better for Pittsburgh?
There isn't a way to make it better, I know you want to use the Penguins as a buffer so the Avs & Flames can make a deal, the Pens don't fit in this.

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02-24-2013, 02:17 AM
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dahrougem2
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Originally Posted by Killswitch7187 View Post
Wow, the Penguins get hosed.

Give up 2 prospects, 2 1st rounders, and our top-4 defenseman for an impending UFA, an overpriced winger, a bottom-pairing defenseman that has no value and Elliott. He may be a nice young player, but we have that in Despres.

No. Just no.
You give up a conditional 1st which is based on Iginla resigning which I don't think he will, I think he'll go back to Calgary, not two 1st rounders. The 2nd round pick is Colorado's. Lots of Flames fans have said that Iginla will not come cheap, what would you do to make it better for Pittsburgh while still making it fair for all 3 teams?

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02-24-2013, 02:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
There isn't a way to make it better, I know you want to use the Penguins as a buffer so the Avs & Flames can make a deal, the Pens don't fit in this.
Not really, if anything I used the Avs as a buffer in order to get rid of O'Reilly while providing the Flames a nice piece for Iginla because Calgary and Pittsburgh have been rumored in the past. Its just easier because the Avs and Flames might not be in the same conference anymore

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02-24-2013, 02:22 AM
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Originally Posted by dahrougem2 View Post
Not really, if anything I used the Avs as a buffer in order to get rid of O'Reilly while providing the Flames a nice piece for Iginla because Calgary and Pittsburgh have been rumored in the past. Its just easier because the Avs and Flames might not be in the same conference anymore
Yeah they have been, but if the Pens have waited this long, why not for a few more months when the Penguins don't have to give up anything and they get to negotiate with UFA's before they hit the market. If Shero calls Iginla and sells him on being Sid's winger and really, how much would that be to sell? Iginla was a kid at a candy store at the Olympics when he was Sid's winger. Unless Iginla stays in Calgary because of family obligations, he is going to be a Penguin one way or another.

I am ok with Shero waiting. I'm a patient guy, it's why I am 100% ok with Shero. It's also why I want nothing to do with Ryder or Setoguchi. Let alone moving Orpik who has been a beast this year after finally getting the proper time off to heal his wounds.

Orpik is only getting moved if the Penguins are getting back a physical young version of him or a guy that can be a stop gap until Ruopp or someone else steps up. Until then, a loss of Orpik is massive to the Pens blueline.

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02-24-2013, 02:23 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dahrougem2 View Post
You give up a conditional 1st which is based on Iginla resigning which I don't think he will, I think he'll go back to Calgary, not two 1st rounders. The 2nd round pick is Colorado's. Lots of Flames fans have said that Iginla will not come cheap, what would you do to make it better for Pittsburgh while still making it fair for all 3 teams?
I've been on the record in other threads that I'm willing to give up a 1st + prospect for Iginla. (More so Maatta over anybody else.) So I definitely understand he doesn't come cheap.

I just simply have no interest in what Colorado has to offer us in this deal. David Jones is a good player, but I just always felt he was a fringe top-6 winger on a Stanley Cup caliber team, and not worth the pricetag of $4m.

If you want a three-way trade with these teams, you probably have Iginla going to Pittsburgh, and RoR going to Calgary as the main basis. Pittsburgh has the D prospects to do it for the other two teams involved. Just all about making it worth the Penguins' trouble for the Avalanche's benefit.

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02-24-2013, 02:26 AM
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Fair points, especially the one about waiting. I just wanted it to be for Pittsburgh that they replace Kennedy, and have a filler for Orpik. Would it maybe entice the Penguins more if it were Steve Downie heading to Pittsburgh? I know he's done for the year but he could be a great fit especially when playing Philadelphia. Also, remove Elliott and maybe include T.J. Brodie?

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02-24-2013, 02:26 AM
  #12
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Originally Posted by Killswitch7187 View Post
I've been on the record in other threads that I'm willing to give up a 1st + prospect for Iginla. (More so Maatta over anybody else.) So I definitely understand he doesn't come cheap.

I just simply have no interest in what Colorado has to offer us in this deal. David Jones is a good player, but I just always felt he was a fringe top-6 winger on a Stanley Cup caliber team, and not worth the pricetag of $4m.

If you want a three-way trade with these teams, you probably have Iginla going to Pittsburgh, and RoR going to Calgary as the main basis. Pittsburgh has the D prospects to do it for the other two teams involved. Just all about making it worth the Penguins' trouble for the Avalanche's benefit.
Only way I give up Maatta + 1st is if that 1st is conditional and Iginla comes with a conditional pick himself.

As in, if he doesn't re-sign, that Pens first turns into a 3rd and the conditional pick from the Flames turns into a 1st in 2014. Because then, we've lost Maatta and a 3rd and Iginla and have absolutely nothing to show for it.

Basically 2 1sts for Iginla alone and if he walks and the Pens are out in the 1st round...I don't see Shero being THAT DESPERATE for Iginla.

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02-24-2013, 02:30 AM
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Shero would hang up the phone almost immediately without another thought.

this deal is just absolutely horrible for the Pens. here's why:


Jarome Iginla (the only attractive piece here, but he's an UFA)
Greg Zanon (horrible bottom-pairing defenseman, less value than what they already have)
David Jones (VERY overpaid for what he brings)
Stefan Elliott (carbon copy of Despres AT HIS VERY BEST with less NHL experience)

and
Tyler Kennedy (wouldn't mind to see him go for Iginla)
Olli Maataa (see Kennedy)
Brooks Orpik (definitely not available yet)
Derrick Pouliot (not available in anything close to a package like this)
2013 1st Round Pick PIT (Conditional; only if Iginla resigns) (see Kennedy)

if you were a Pens fan, would you do this? i can't speak for all Pens fans, but i'm pretty confident that the general consensus would be a giant HELL FREAKING NO.

good try, i guess, but the value is horrible for the Pens.

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02-24-2013, 02:33 AM
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Sorry Dahg but I think this sucks for us.

Orpik turns 33 this year. He has maybe 3 good years left. If we get very lucky we get one contending year out of him.

We give up a high 2nd + Elliott+ ROR + Jones + Zanon and get 32yr old Orpik +Backlund (who has major questionmarks right now on his own) + Pouliot out of this.

I really dislike that trade.

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02-24-2013, 02:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
Only way I give up Maatta + 1st is if that 1st is conditional and Iginla comes with a conditional pick himself.

As in, if he doesn't re-sign, that Pens first turns into a 3rd and the conditional pick from the Flames turns into a 1st in 2014. Because then, we've lost Maatta and a 3rd and Iginla and have absolutely nothing to show for it.

Basically 2 1sts for Iginla alone and if he walks and the Pens are out in the 1st round...I don't see Shero being THAT DESPERATE for Iginla.
You are definitely correct in that assessment of Shero. He is the least desperate GM in the league, perhaps. Patience has always been one of his main traits.

I was just stating I'd personally offer that package, because I strongly believe Iginla would have no problem re-signing with the Cup-contending team that trades for him. That's just me, however. With no evidence to show, either. With the exception of Hossa, we have a pretty good track record of keeping wingers in Pittsburgh after their contracts are up to stick around of Shero's tenure. Can definitely see the hesitance of giving up 2 1sts for an impending UFA, though.

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02-24-2013, 02:35 AM
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dahrougem2
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Originally Posted by domaug View Post
Shero would hang up the phone almost immediately without another thought.

this deal is just absolutely horrible for the Pens. here's why:


Jarome Iginla (the only attractive piece here, but he's an UFA)
Greg Zanon (horrible bottom-pairing defenseman, less value than what they already have)
David Jones (VERY overpaid for what he brings)
Stefan Elliott (carbon copy of Despres AT HIS VERY BEST with less NHL experience)

and
Tyler Kennedy (wouldn't mind to see him go for Iginla)
Olli Maataa (see Kennedy)
Brooks Orpik (definitely not available yet)
Derrick Pouliot (not available in anything close to a package like this)
2013 1st Round Pick PIT (Conditional; only if Iginla resigns) (see Kennedy)

if you were a Pens fan, would you do this? i can't speak for all Pens fans, but i'm pretty confident that the general consensus would be a giant HELL FREAKING NO.

good try, i guess, but the value is horrible for the Pens.
So then gauging Pens fans' responses, you guys are pretty much willing to do a roster player + prospect + pick for Iginla.

I knew that there would be some backlash, I kind of figured that would happen especially when I included Pouliot. Jones is overpaid, but he has hit 20 goals twice and he does throw a lot of hits. A potential
Kunitz/Crosby/Iginla
Neal/Malkin/Jones
Cooke/Sutter/Dupuis

could be lethal, but if its overpayment its understandable, just wanted to see value

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02-24-2013, 02:35 AM
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Sorry Dag but I think this sucks for us.

Orpik turns 33 this year. He has maybe 3 good years left. If we get very lucky we get one contending year out of him.

We give up a high 2nd + Elliott+ ROR and get 32yr old Orpik +Backlund (who has major questionmarks right now on his own) + Pouliot out of this.

I really dislike that trade.
luckily, i doubt you'll have to worry about any of that, because if Shero actually bit on a trade like this, he'd realistically get another phone call immediately afterward announcing his termination as Pens GM

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02-24-2013, 02:36 AM
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dahrougem2
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Originally Posted by JoemAvs View Post
Sorry Dag but I think this sucks for us.

Orpik turns 33 this year. He has maybe 3 good years left. If we get very lucky we get one contending year out of him.

We give up a high 2nd + Elliott+ ROR + Jones + Zanon and get 32yr old Orpik +Backlund (who has major questionmarks right now on his own) + Pouliot out of this.

I really dislike that trade.
The way I saw it, it allows us to have a true 1st defense pairing of Orpik-Johnson while Siemens and Pouliot develop, while also giving us a 3rd line centre to replace O'Reilly and allow Mitchell to play the 4C role

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02-24-2013, 02:38 AM
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Avs need to hold onto Elliott until he's ready to play in the NHL. I know Barrie's doing awesome so we don't "need" Elliott, but his potential is just too great to give up without getting value for, and we won't get value for him until he takes that next step the way Barrie has.

Come next years deadline is when I think Elliott could be moved, by then we'll have the ROR trade all sorted out and we'll have seen more from Elliott, assuming we get an EJ partner for Ryan, then we can make a decision between Elliott and Barrie and get a return comparable to what they can bring.

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02-24-2013, 02:39 AM
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luckily, i doubt you'll have to worry about any of that, because if Shero actually bit on a trade like this, he'd realistically get another phone call immediately afterward announcing his termination as Pens GM
Well I think you are wrong (deal is off but not that far off that Shero would get fired) for the Pens but I was not talking about the Pens side of the deal here.

Orpik simply does not hold much value to the Avs.
And Pouliot and Backlund do not come close to the return I would be happy with if we give up ROR + Elliott+ (high)2nd+ Jones + Zanon

@ Dahg : You are paying premium value for a stopgap (Avs are not contending until he is 34+). I kind of dislike that concept.

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02-24-2013, 02:39 AM
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Iginla is the only thing the Pens are getting in that deal that I'd be interested in. No interest in trading Orpik or Pouliot. You can have Kennedy. I'm fine with moving Maatta + a 1st for certain players. Iginla would be one of those players.

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02-24-2013, 02:39 AM
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Avs need to hold onto Elliott until he's ready to play in the NHL. I know Barrie's doing awesome so we don't "need" Elliott, but his potential is just too great to give up without getting value for, and we won't get value for him until he takes that next step the way Barrie has.

Come next years deadline is when I think Elliott could be moved, by then we'll have the ROR trade all sorted out and we'll have seen more from Elliott, assuming we get an EJ partner for Ryan, then we can make a decision between Elliott and Barrie and get a return comparable to what they can bring.
I for one like Elliott more than I like Barrie but a lot of Avs fans seem like Barrie more, which is why I included Elliott

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02-24-2013, 02:40 AM
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Originally Posted by dahrougem2 View Post
So then gauging Pens fans' responses, you guys are pretty much willing to do a roster player + prospect + pick for Iginla.

I knew that there would be some backlash, I kind of figured that would happen especially when I included Pouliot. Jones is overpaid, but he has hit 20 goals twice and he does throw a lot of hits. A potential
Kunitz/Crosby/Iginla
Neal/Malkin/Jones
Cooke/Sutter/Dupuis

could be lethal, but if its overpayment its understandable, just wanted to see value
Zanon, Elliott, and Jones (with his contract and current production) aren't worth Orpik and Pouliot. Orpik isn't someone the Pens should even think about trading at this point and with Morrow as the Pens' #1 prospect, Pouliot is a close #2, so he shouldn't go in a package like that.

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02-24-2013, 02:42 AM
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luckily, i doubt you'll have to worry about any of that, because if Shero actually bit on a trade like this, he'd realistically get another phone call immediately afterward announcing his termination as Pens GM
Mario and Burkle wouldn't even let him go that far.

Shero - *explains the trade*
Mario & Burkle - Nice, is it April 1st already?
Shero - I'm serious.
Mario & Burkle - How much do you like being a Pens GM?
Shero - Point taken, I'll tell them no.

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02-24-2013, 02:43 AM
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Well I think you are wrong (deal is off but not that far off that Shero would get fired) for the Pens but I was not talking about the Pens side of the deal here.

Orpik simply does not hold much value to the Avs.
And Pouliot and Backlund do not come close to the return I would be happy with if we give up ROR + Elliott+ (high)2nd+ Jones + Zanon

@ Dahg : You are paying premium value for a stopgap (Avs are not contending until he is 34+). I kind of dislike that concept.
i was mainly talking about the Pens' point of view. isolating the Pens-Avs parts of the trade:


David Jones
Greg Zanon
Stefan Elliott


Brooks Orpik
Derrick Pouliot

as a Pens fan, i wouldn't do that. on the other hand, i agree with your assessment of your side of the entire three-way deal.

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