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Old
03-08-2013, 02:22 PM
  #501
iArts
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It's getting pathetic now.

Gardiner, Liles and Komi all deserve to play over Holzer and Kostka. Maybe even over Gunner lately.

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03-08-2013, 02:46 PM
  #502
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Originally Posted by iArts View Post
It's getting pathetic now.

Gardiner, Liles and Komi all deserve to play over Holzer and Kostka. Maybe even over Gunner lately.
Whats pathetic, the fact that Leafs are 15-10 and one of the better GAA teams in the league? And no one expected it.

The fact that Gardiner is getting some lessons from Eakins?

The fact that guys like Frasor, Franson, Holzer and Kostka are getting bigtime seasoning right now?

What if its not just about this year, what if its about, I dunno, building for the future.

Hell, the fact that we are winning should shut people the hell up, but it doesn't. That is what is pathetic.

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03-08-2013, 02:57 PM
  #503
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Originally Posted by A1LeafNation View Post
Whats pathetic, the fact that Leafs are 15-10 and one of the better GAA teams in the league? And no one expected it.

The fact that Gardiner is getting some lessons from Eakins?

The fact that guys like Frasor, Franson, Holzer and Kostka are getting bigtime seasoning right now?

What if its not just about this year, what if its about, I dunno, building for the future.

Hell, the fact that we are winning should shut people the hell up, but it doesn't. That is what is pathetic.
Striving to always be better is a winner's attitude. Something you're lacking.

I think Gardiner would be a benefit to this team because of his ability to get the puck out of the defensive zone and start offensive rushes, something this team lacks every game. How many shifts do the Leafs get hemmed in their own zone? Too many every game. Gardiner would immediately help this team improve.

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03-08-2013, 03:09 PM
  #504
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Entering the zone in our power play is a huge issue in my opinion. When the leafs are on a power play i don't even get excited anymore. This is why i believe gardiner could help us right now, the problem is 1) either holzer would need to be sent back down or fraser and koska would need to clear waviers which is a waste, or nonis would have to trade komo or liles or even kostka (which is what i think he is currently trying to do).

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03-08-2013, 03:12 PM
  #505
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We are going to have to be patient and wait for the Deadline to pass. The Leafs are showcasing I think.

We gotta move a couple of guys out but we aren't going to get the best deal right now so we can wait.

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03-08-2013, 03:22 PM
  #506
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Originally Posted by Duke Silver View Post
Ugh, run-on sentences....

Since you seem unwilling to answer the question, I'll ask again:

What does Mike Kostka bring to the table that Gardiner does not?

Enough with the stigma crap, I can honestly say that I'm not wrapped up in the whole journeyman AHLer storyline. What I see is a defenceman who impressed people early on because they weren't expecting much, then went on to regress in play.

I think its hilarious you think Kostka has earned a spot on this roster over Gunnarsson. He is so unappreciated around these parts.

And why do you keep using "soft" in a negative connotation when referring to Gunnarsson/Gardiner when Kostka is only marginally more physical? Why, because he fought a midget (Gallagher) and threw down an off-balance Senator on Wednesday? Perhaps his likeness to Thor has you confused?

What do you see in Kostka that others don't? And what makes him a better option than Gardiner?
Again it's not Kostka vs Gardiner it's Gunnarson, Liles vs Gardiner.... Take Kostka out of it then we can talk.

I've already explained what it is about Kostka that I see which is the same things Carlyle sees in him but you find it laughable to the point Gunnarson is underrated... Tell you what wait until you see what Gunnarson re-signs at, hopefully on another team then we'll revisit this underrated status Gunnarson has in this place cause it's Kostka who holds that tittle these days.

Good thing Carlyle doesn't have this stigma the vast majority do other wise improvement based on merit wont exist. Tell me did you enjoy watching Gunnarson's missed assignment in front of the net vs Ottawa for the game winner? That's a normal circumstance of his soft play it has nothing to do with fighting. Kostka is just stronger in dealing with physical play where's Gunnarson gets pushed around with very little resistance too often the front of the net coverage by Gunnarson is a free pass to the opposition. It's in the details and the little things Kostka has over Gunnarson in dealing with physical play. Gunnerson gets exposed vs those teams yet there's a blind eye that he's underrated.

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03-08-2013, 03:27 PM
  #507
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Originally Posted by dimi78 View Post
Again it's not Kostka vs Gardiner it's Gunnarson, Liles vs Gardiner.... Take Kostka out of it then we can talk.

I've already explained what it is about Kostka that I see which is the same things Carlyle sees in him but you find it laughable to the point Gunnarson is underrated... Tell you what wait until you see what Gunnarson re-signs at, hopefully on another team then we'll revisit this underrated status Gunnarson has in this place cause it's Kostka who holds that tittle these days.

Good thing Carlyle doesn't have this stigma the vast majority do other wise improvement based on merit wont exist. Tell me did you enjoy watching Gunnarson's missed assignment in front of the net vs Ottawa for the game winner? That's a normal circumstance of his soft play it has nothing to do with fighting. Kostka is just stronger in dealing with physical play where's Gunnarson gets pushed around with very little resistance too often the front of the net coverage by Gunnarson is a free pass to the opposition. It's in the details and the little things Kostka has over Gunnarson in dealing with physical play. Gunnerson gets exposed vs those teams yet there's a blind eye that he's underrated.
So Carlyle is smart enough to see something not many do, but not smart enough to have Liles or Komi there instead of Gunnarson?

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03-08-2013, 03:51 PM
  #508
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Originally Posted by A1LeafNation View Post
Whats pathetic, the fact that Leafs are 15-10 and one of the better GAA teams in the league? And no one expected it.

The fact that Gardiner is getting some lessons from Eakins?

The fact that guys like Frasor, Franson, Holzer and Kostka are getting bigtime seasoning right now?

What if its not just about this year, what if its about, I dunno, building for the future.

Hell, the fact that we are winning should shut people the hell up, but it doesn't. That is what is pathetic.
Being 15-10 means that we shouldn't be trying to get better?

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03-08-2013, 03:51 PM
  #509
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Originally Posted by dimi78 View Post
Again it's not Kostka vs Gardiner it's Gunnarson, Liles vs Gardiner.... Take Kostka out of it then we can talk.

I've already explained what it is about Kostka that I see which is the same things Carlyle sees in him but you find it laughable to the point Gunnarson is underrated... Tell you what wait until you see what Gunnarson re-signs at, hopefully on another team then we'll revisit this underrated status Gunnarson has in this place cause it's Kostka who holds that tittle these days.

Good thing Carlyle doesn't have this stigma the vast majority do other wise improvement based on merit wont exist. Tell me did you enjoy watching Gunnarson's missed assignment in front of the net vs Ottawa for the game winner? That's a normal circumstance of his soft play it has nothing to do with fighting. Kostka is just stronger in dealing with physical play where's Gunnarson gets pushed around with very little resistance too often the front of the net coverage by Gunnarson is a free pass to the opposition. It's in the details and the little things Kostka has over Gunnarson in dealing with physical play. Gunnerson gets exposed vs those teams yet there's a blind eye that he's underrated.
This is the most bizarre reasoning I've seen regarding this.

For someone who seems to magnify solely on the mistakes of Gunnarsson I find it odd how you miss the numerous times Kostka has failed to keep the puck in the offensive zone on powerplays, how often he misses the net, his failed assignments on odd-man rushes and how much scrambling he does. I guess we only see what we want to see.

As for your Gunnarsson example (I'm assuming you mean the last-minute goal by Greening from a few weeks ago) that goal would not have been a problem had Scrivens not bobbled the puck. He put his defencemen in a very tough spot. I do not fault Gunnarsson for this, what happened was unpredictable and should not have happened.

The reason Kostka is preventing Gardiner from being on the roster is that Kostka is being relied upon to fill the role that Gardiner had on the team last year. The problem is he doesn't have the mobility, up-ice vision, or offensive ability that Gardiner has. We have been hemmed in our zone far too often as of late, and we can't enter the zone on the powerplay.

If Kostka were waiver exempt we wouldn't be having this conversation.

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Old
03-08-2013, 04:03 PM
  #510
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Originally Posted by WWB View Post
Why is it complete ******* as you say? The Leafs are winning, and in a playoff spot. So whats the rush?

The cap is going down this summer and teams will be looking to shed salary. Given the Leafs cap situation, having a pile of draft picks and prospects to use as currency for trades is going to be huge, especially if good players are going to be available.

The cap is going down apoprox. $6 million. Teams can't just dump their 6 crappiest guys to get under the cap as they won't be able fill out their rosters, so IMO good players will be available. Not all teams can afford to just buy players out and why would they if they can get picks or prospects for them?


Keeping Gardiner on the Marlies while the Leafs showcase their d-men so they can sell them at the deadline is a good long term strategy for the Leafs. Now it's up to Nonis to make all this worth while and make a few solid trades.
So I understand you think it's wiser to bring Gardiner up when TO is losing, ya, I guess it's always easier to integrate a young player into the toxic environment of a losing team.

Seems odd to me, how does a team get better, I would think by getting better players so I'm thinking Gardiner is at a minimum TO's 9th best d-man, maybe he's even lower on the totem pole maybe Blacker is rated higher.

Personally I would like to see the best line-up TO has every night.

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03-08-2013, 04:20 PM
  #511
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I don't think you can bring him up without lowering the trade value of the other defencemen. Nonis will have to make a trade before calling him up IMO.

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03-08-2013, 04:23 PM
  #512
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I never take Dreger seriously, but I'll admit that I take reputable insiders like Mackenzie and Kypreos seriously when it involves Leaf trade rumors.
Why? I mean, I really don't understand. What has Kipper ever said to make you think he is more "credible" than Dreger? Announce a trade 5-6 minutes before him? Who cares?

They just generate discussion. They make vague statements of the obvious like "I hear the Leafs are shopping Bozak", which 9 out of 10 times is refuted by the team in question and nothing ever comes of it, except for the rare time a trade actually does go through, which at that point is indistinguishable from the blind squirrel finding a nut.

They just give you enough to make you think they know significantly more than you do, so you tune in again to get updates. You've been had. They don't provide you with reliable information that isn't obvious anyway.


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03-08-2013, 04:25 PM
  #513
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I don't think you can bring him up without lowering the trade value of the other defencemen. Nonis will have to make a trade before calling him up IMO.
Who cares about the trade value of Kostka?

He's not going to fetch anything special.

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03-08-2013, 04:28 PM
  #514
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Originally Posted by Pi View Post
Who cares about the trade value of Kostka?

He's not going to fetch anything special.
You mention Kostka, but i'm thinking Gunnarsson and Liles especially. Why would any team expend good assets for a player (Liles) who they know will never see the ice again? And having $4 million sitting in the box for the Leafs is not something that can continue longterm, especially with the cap dropping next season.


And honestly, I don't think Gardiner's missing presence will make any difference to the Leafs winning or losing games. There's no rush as far as i'm concerned.

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03-08-2013, 04:30 PM
  #515
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Originally Posted by Pi View Post
Who cares about the trade value of Kostka?

He's not going to fetch anything special.
I doubt he would even be claimed on waivers. 100% serious.

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03-08-2013, 05:20 PM
  #516
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Eakins scrum today on LeafsTV, was raving about Jake. Said he is "absolutely ready" and said his defensive part of the game is NHL calibre. Eakins said its a numbers game, that's the only thing holding him back.


Last edited by SteveV*: 03-08-2013 at 05:25 PM.
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03-08-2013, 05:23 PM
  #517
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Eakins scrum today on LeafsTV, was raving about Jake. Said he is "absolutely ready" and said his defensive part of the game is NHL calibre. Eakins said its a numbers game, that's the only thing holding him back.
There's an easy solution to that. Holzer down. I know who should be down, and who shouldn't be. Gardiner shouldn't be down. He's hands down our second best defenceman, if not first if you consider Dion to be better than him

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03-08-2013, 05:36 PM
  #518
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Here's the video of Eakins today wherein he says Gardiner has been their best defenceman and "Jake is clearly an NHL defenceman." Time to end this charade, free Gardiner!

http://video.mapleleafs.nhl.com/vide...sole?catid=446


Last edited by SteveV*: 03-08-2013 at 05:46 PM.
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03-08-2013, 05:42 PM
  #519
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Originally Posted by Dwight K Schrute View Post
TSN Radio ‏@TSN1050Radio
Great stuff from @DarrenDreger says he doesn't think Randy Carlyle s the biggest fan of Jake Gardiner. Explains why he's not on the team

Anyone else catch this? Would explain a lot.
I call dreger B.S

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03-08-2013, 05:45 PM
  #520
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You listen to Eakins talk about Gardiner and its just ridiculous he's in the A still. Make a move Nonis:

http://video.mapleleafs.nhl.com/vide...sole?catid=446

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03-08-2013, 08:08 PM
  #521
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Originally Posted by SteveV View Post
Here's the video of Eakins today wherein he says Gardiner has been their best defenceman and "Jake is clearly an NHL defenceman." Time to end this charade, free Gardiner!

http://video.mapleleafs.nhl.com/vide...sole?catid=446
Just watched Jake's interview and he seems so depressed to be there. I feel sorry for him.

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03-08-2013, 08:19 PM
  #522
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Originally Posted by SeenSchenn2 View Post
Didn't Luke Schenn, too? .


Blocked shots doesn't take away from the fact that he fumbles the puck a lot, can't shoot or receive a pass, gets us hemmed in quite often, too.

I wouldn't mind him on the bottom pairing, but in reality he doesn't come close to what Liles or Gardiner provides.
Blocked shots also means he's been out there when the other team has the puck and been in a position to shoot on net in our end. So that's not necessarily good...

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03-08-2013, 08:21 PM
  #523
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Jake Gardiner proves he's the best rookie defenseman last year...and now he's stuck in the AHL.

I hope people know we're winning DESPITE of Holzer and Kostka.

I like Fraser and hope he's going to stay here.

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03-08-2013, 08:22 PM
  #524
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Originally Posted by SteveV View Post
Here's the video of Eakins today wherein he says Gardiner has been their best defenceman and "Jake is clearly an NHL defenceman." Time to end this charade, free Gardiner!

http://video.mapleleafs.nhl.com/vide...sole?catid=446
Great interview from Eakins. Can't wait to see Jake this year. It'll be soon I'm sure.

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03-08-2013, 08:26 PM
  #525
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Originally Posted by SteveV View Post
Eakins scrum today on LeafsTV, was raving about Jake. Said he is "absolutely ready" and said his defensive part of the game is NHL calibre. Eakins said its a numbers game, that's the only thing holding him back.
The numbers game makes no sense. Imagine if we still had Kadri down there in the AHL just because we had too many NHL bodies. I don't even care if we lost a guy like Koskta on waivers. Easy come easy go.

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