HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Columbus Blue Jackets
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Voracek & #8 rather than JJ?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-21-2013, 05:40 AM
  #1
EspenK
Registered User
 
EspenK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,860
vCash: 500
Voracek & #8 rather than JJ?

So Jake gets his first hat trick last night including the game winner. Courtier is a solid center who is only going to get better. Johnson is appreciated by most here as our best D-man. With apologies to those who will say why bring this up, it is a non-issue, given the sorry state of our forwards would you have made the trade directly for JJ in retrospect?

EspenK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2013, 05:51 AM
  #2
TaketheCannoli
RIP
 
TaketheCannoli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 8,404
vCash: 500
water under the bridge


As much as I like Voracek and Couturier, neither one is the cure for this team's problems.Voracek is a playmaker not a finisher and Couturier is a potential strong shut down 3rd line center.
JMFJ is the closest to what was needed after a #1 goaltender, and defensemen are the most difficult to acquire and long to develop.

Now about that 3rd round pick...

TaketheCannoli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2013, 06:01 AM
  #3
JACKETfan
Real Blue Jacketfan
 
JACKETfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Venice
Country: United States
Posts: 9,232
vCash: 500
Last night's Flyer-Pen game was the best and wildest hockey game I've seen all season. Voracek was everywhere. But I also saw him in person take the night off v. Tampa last month. So...

JACKETfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2013, 06:08 AM
  #4
InjuredChoker
Registered User
 
InjuredChoker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: LTIR or golf course
Posts: 17,877
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaketheCannoli View Post
water under the bridge


As much as I like Voracek and Couturier, neither one is the cure for this team's problems.Voracek is a playmaker not a finisher and Couturier is a potential strong shut down 3rd line center.
JMFJ is the closest to what was needed after a #1 goaltender, and defensemen are the most difficult to acquire and long to develop.

Now about that 3rd round pick...
Couturier has potential to be more than that.

Columbus may not have picked Couturier either, Brodin and Hamilton were on the table too. Though I doubt they were after Brodin.

InjuredChoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2013, 06:14 AM
  #5
Viqsi
carrying the flag
 
Viqsi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: The Scary Internet
Country: United States
Posts: 20,384
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Viqsi
I'd prefer to have all three.

__________________
Remember - when you're a hockey fan, it's not "reckless driving", it's "good forechecking".
"Viqsi, you are our sweet humanist..." --mt-svk on the CBJ boards

Thanks, Howson, for cleaning up MacLean's toxic waste. Welcome, Kekalainen; let's get good things built!
Viqsi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2013, 06:22 AM
  #6
Skraut
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Enter city here
Posts: 10,344
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
would you have made the trade directly for JJ in retrospect?
In retrospect I would have made dramatically different career choices, but all I can do now is make the best of the decisions I have made and go forward.

Seems to be the same situation with this question as well.

Skraut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2013, 06:24 AM
  #7
Double-Shift Lassé
Moderator
Just post better
 
Double-Shift Lassé's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Superurban Cbus
Country: United States
Posts: 17,585
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
why bring this up, it is a non-issue,
I couldn't agree with you more, here, EK.

__________________
"Every game, every point is a necessity." -- Ty Conklin, January 2007
"I'll have a chance to compete for the post of first issue. This is the most important thing." -- Sergei Bobrovsky, June 2012

Last edited by Double-Shift Lassé: 02-21-2013 at 06:42 AM.
Double-Shift Lassé is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2013, 06:30 AM
  #8
Nanabijou
Playoffs back at Nat
 
Nanabijou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,547
vCash: 500
I prefer to just ignore the Carter part of the Voracek trade.

If I was offered Jack Johnson for Voracek plus a 3rd in 2011, along with flipping first round picks with LA (our 2011 for their 2013) - I would have jumped for that. Johnson was a much better known commodity than Jake at that point. Who knows how the swapping of firsts will turn out?

I do find it weird that Howson banked on Brassard and Mason over Voracek. He rushed to re-sign the former two before they even hit their last year of RFA, while he let Jake twist in the wind until his RFA year was up. I'd take Jake over either Brassard or Mason in a heartbeat in 2011 or now.

Nanabijou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2013, 06:58 AM
  #9
1857 Howitzer
******* Linesman
 
1857 Howitzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 5,057
vCash: 500
Title should be "Voracek & #8 rather than JJ & LA's 1st"

__________________
“@Aportzline: RT @skeezer1212: @Aportzline are you on record about if you think they should trade Nash, *Carter? / Not my place. Reporter, not columnist.”
1857 Howitzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2013, 07:30 AM
  #10
Roadman
Moving On
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: London OH
Country: United States
Posts: 2,592
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1857 Howitzer View Post
Title should be "Voracek & #8 rather than JJ & LA's 1st"
This...

Let's see what the last piece to the puzzle is.

__________________
__________________

I post, therefore I am.
Roadman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2013, 07:53 AM
  #11
Double-Shift Lassé
Moderator
Just post better
 
Double-Shift Lassé's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Superurban Cbus
Country: United States
Posts: 17,585
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadman View Post
This...

Let's see what the last piece to the puzzle is.
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...219&highlight=

Double-Shift Lassé is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2013, 08:00 AM
  #12
Iron Balls McGinty
Registered User
 
Iron Balls McGinty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Sec. 203/Worthington
Country: United States
Posts: 1,557
vCash: 500
Let's not forget that Jaromir Jagr is who taught Voracek how to be a pro athlete last season. Voracek's only claim to fame before the trade was being Mike Commodore's party buddy.

Voracek would not be playing the way he is not if he were still in Columbus.

Iron Balls McGinty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2013, 08:03 AM
  #13
Doug19
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Columbus, OH
Country: Aland Islands
Posts: 6,138
vCash: 50
I'd still probably do the trade. Jake is my favorite player to ever but on union blue, but Johnson filled a huge need and is on a great contract. I think we are probably better off with Johnson and LA's first this year than Voracek 2011 1st and 3rd. Voracek is in a much more demanding and competitive environment, I think he will grow into a much better player in Philly than he would in Columbus.

Doug19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2013, 08:05 AM
  #14
Robert
Foligno family
 
Robert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: KY & Lime Lake NY
Country: United States
Posts: 30,144
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Robert
THe Flyers are not exactly tearing up the league and Courtier is still young....

No

Robert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2013, 08:24 AM
  #15
IBleedUnionBlue
Registered User
 
IBleedUnionBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,120
vCash: 500
The CBJ also drafted Legein and Weber that year in the 2nd round all before Simmonds was picked by LA. But you can't do anything about the past. There is new leadership in COlumbus, it will just take a couple years to right this franchise.

IBleedUnionBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2013, 09:01 AM
  #16
KeithBWhittington
Going North
 
KeithBWhittington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Brick by Brick
Country: Hungary
Posts: 10,236
vCash: 500
We have no idea of several things regarding this:

If Voracek would have done a bit of an "about face" here (rumors he was "living it up" with Brass and Commodore) and rededicated himself to his craft and taken a leadership position within the club.

If Couturier would have still been at 8 if we kept the pick.

And maybe the most unsure thing of the all of them:

What would Couturier have been had we drafted him? I'm not sure he comes in to Columbus and that mess is any better for him or for the team. He's likely sent back to junior before the season even starts. We can talk about "Look who was drafted after we picked so and so" but we really don't know how things would have fallen if we did.

KeithBWhittington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2013, 10:21 AM
  #17
Nordique
Registered User
 
Nordique's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 7,102
vCash: 500
If my Aunt had a ....

Its hard to evaluate this situation in today's terms. I guess my personal thoughts are...

The Voracek/1st round trade for Carter was bad, simply because Carter was a bum that wanted nothing to do with Columbus.

The Carter for JJ/1st round trade was good, as it brought us a top pairing dman with a great attitude, and a 1st round pick in a deep draft.

Nordique is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2013, 10:30 AM
  #18
KeithBWhittington
Going North
 
KeithBWhittington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Brick by Brick
Country: Hungary
Posts: 10,236
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordique View Post
If my Aunt had a ....

Its hard to evaluate this situation in today's terms. I guess my personal thoughts are...

The Voracek/1st round trade for Carter was bad, simply because Carter was a bum that wanted nothing to do with Columbus.

The Carter for JJ/1st round trade was good, as it brought us a top pairing dman with a great attitude, and a 1st round pick in a deep draft.
The whole situation screams "two steps forward and two steps back".

KeithBWhittington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2013, 10:37 AM
  #19
Nordique
Registered User
 
Nordique's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 7,102
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithBWhittington View Post
The whole situation screams "two steps forward and two steps back".
I agree, and honestly I think thats the way the game goes somtimes. Howson did a fine job recovering from the Carter move, I just wish he had not gotten us into that jam in the first place. I liked Voracek, I think generally speaking this whole fan base liked him. JJ has had a rough start, but I'm very happy to have him here.

The real kicker is LA's 1st round pick. I'd like to think they'll be starting threads like this on the Kings board is a couple seasons, bemoaning the loss of JJ and some young scoring machine that we snagged with their pick.

Nordique is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2013, 11:04 AM
  #20
Ludicrous Speed
Registered User
 
Ludicrous Speed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Killumbus
Country: Micronesia
Posts: 10,998
vCash: 500
I think if LA's pick is within 5 spots of where Philly got Couturier we'll get an equal or better player. JJ and Voracek are about a wash for me. It really depends on what the final return is.

Ludicrous Speed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2013, 11:13 AM
  #21
Mayor Bee
\/me_____you\/
 
Mayor Bee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 14,288
vCash: 500
I've yet to be convinced that Couturier will be more than a prime Manny Malhotra was. Both were in the NHL at 18 on a good team, both immediately stepped in as excellent defensive forwards, and both teams hoped that their offensive game would eventually come around. If it did, that was a bonus, and if not, that was fine too.

If that's what Couturier's career peak actually ends up being, which is a guy who'll hit 20 goals a couple times and top out at 40 points, to what extent does that change the discussion? He's more hyped right now for three reasons:
1) He's young
2) He plays tough minutes (PK included) on a good team
3) There's a massive tendency to overhype such players

Mayor Bee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2013, 11:14 AM
  #22
CBJBrassard16
Sergei BobTrollsky
 
CBJBrassard16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 12,879
vCash: 500
Can we wait 3-4 years when we see who we pick and how peoples career turns out?

CBJBrassard16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2013, 11:41 AM
  #23
Hockeypete49
How you like me now!
 
Hockeypete49's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: South Jersey
Country: Isle of Man
Posts: 4,513
vCash: 500
Flyers fan here and I come in peace. I just want to say I hope that the deal works out for both parties. Vorcek, Couturier and do not forget Nick Cousins, have worked out well for us. Sean is a kid who is still growing into his game and has tremendous potenial. Jake playing with Giroux has been nothing but lights out for us. Man can he skate and play the body. And Nick has a NHL future. I alway liked Jeff Carter but I cannot explain as to why it did not work out for you guys. But now you have a solid number 1 defensemen in JJ so good luck and I hope that the GM change will help you guys. Take Care and Good Luck

Hockeypete49 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2013, 12:13 PM
  #24
tdfast
Registered User
 
tdfast's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 37
vCash: 500
Are either of these guys top line players? Maybe top six but I don't think they form a top 10 2nd line in the league. JJ has his problems but some things went wrong in between there to make it a Voracek and Couturier for JJ deal.

tdfast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2013, 01:33 PM
  #25
major major
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 3,480
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdfast View Post
Are either of these guys top line players? Maybe top six but I don't think they form a top 10 2nd line in the league. JJ has his problems but some things went wrong in between there to make it a Voracek and Couturier for JJ deal.
If Voracek keeps up his play of this year he is a top line winger.

Couturier was unexpectedly available at #8. He fell, if I remember correctly, because of concerns about his creativity and vision, but I think he has the tools to score, maybe even on a top line level. If that happens, then combined with his shutdown play that would make him the most valuable player involved in this set of deals. But he was never a Jacket pick, so its not like we "lost him".

I like JJ on the Jackets, but I don't know if he is that much of an asset.

These are just my musings on the value of the players, but I don't care about reassessing the deals, a lot happened in between, Couturier was never a Jacket, etc..

major major is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:51 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.