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I wouldn't trade Wotherspoon for Erixon

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Old
03-28-2014, 12:44 AM
  #1
Qubax
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I wouldn't trade Wotherspoon for Erixon

+1 Feaster.

If we are remotely competitive over the next 2-3 years, it'll be:

- 12-14% Darryl (Brodie, Backlund, Ortio, etc.,)
- 60% Feaster/Weis and Co. (You know the names here, but there are about 10-12 names atleast that are and could be impactful from this regime)
- 26-28% Burke (See Colborne/Smid, [I realize Feaster was the GM for both of these, but get real those have BB all over them] our 2014 draft, FA, Berra for a 2nd etc.,)

Anyway, back to the Original Point....

Tyler Wotherspoon. Dang, this guy looks poised.

I think Wotherspoon has played his last AHL game where an NHL game is an option. Ofcourse after our season he'll head down to help the Heat.

But the strides that TW has made in the last few months is astounding.

I actually almost like his upside better then Brodie's. I know that sounds crazy, but hear me out.

Brodie and Wotherspoon are quite similar. Brodie is a bit more dynamic and offensive, whereas Wotherspoon has the potential to be more polished defensively while still having plenty of mobility and two way ability.

I guess my point is this, both of these guys have the upside of Top 4 guys, really being a Top 3 guy (stronger player on your number 2 pairing) And honestly both guys will probably be decent Top pairing guys too.

Brodie is great and all, but if he has any bust factor it's in a similar manner to John Michael Liles, great puck moving D, smooth skater, a bit of a liability in his own zone. It kind of held Liles back from being in that next tier.

Now if Brodie's down side is Liles, his upside is Vlasic ~ a Canadian Olympian!

I see Wotherspoon as being sure fire top 4. With a downside of say Dennis Seidenberg, and an upside also of a Vlasic type.

Like I say, I think both Brodie and Wotherspoon are similar, but Brodie is a touch mroe dynamic and risky, Wotherspoon is a bit safer and more vanilla.

These two guys are just perfect to build the core of your D around. Sieloff can just develop into a 5/6 Smid type to be honest. ...and right there you've got 3/6ths of your future D.

Anyway, I'll end the rant here, but I love these two young dmen.

I think I'll rant about our excellent prospects at Forward over the weekend.

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03-28-2014, 12:57 AM
  #2
MuffinMerc
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I think Brodie will be better than Vlasic.

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03-28-2014, 01:00 AM
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TherapyforGlencross
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I understand what you're trying to say, but I wouldn't get so optimistic about a defenseman. He could easily take a step back next season (or the season after that) and not become a top 4 defensman. I mean, take a look at Tyler Myers; he had an amazing rookie season (or sophomore year, don't quote me), and look how much he has regressed. Defensemen are very hard to predict, so I would temper your expectations until he proves himself over an extended amount of time.

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03-28-2014, 01:07 AM
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Originally Posted by TherapyforGlencross View Post
I understand what you're trying to say, but I wouldn't get so optimistic about a defenseman. He could easily take a step back next season (or the season after that) and not become a top 4 defensman. I mean, take a look at Tyler Myers; he had an amazing rookie season (or sophomore year, don't quote me), and look how much he has regressed. Defensemen are very hard to predict, so I would temper your expectations until he proves himself over an extended amount of time.
I don't think I'm being too optimistic. I mean no one is freaking out about Brodie ending up somewhere between Liles and Vlasic

and honestly Seidenberg to Vlasic is quite reasonable for TW if you ask me.

I mean Wotherspoon has progressed exactly as he should. Building on his time with Portland, what was his plus minus there last year? like +70 or something silly.

He was a key cog in the mold of a Seidenberg at the World Juniors, and he's had an excellent development curve in his first year in the Pro's.

I think with a guy like Myers, he's so gangly, and rangy and was rushed before he was polished....there was almost more to go right with Myers, but also more to go wrong.

I really don't anticipate the Flames wrecking Wotherspoon, and if he stays on course I think he'll develop just as I've outlined.

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03-28-2014, 01:09 AM
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It is kind of amazing that in the case where Feaster had the least amount of leverage he managed to pull off his best trade as the GM of the Flames. Amazing and bizarre.

Anyway, if Brodie can develop his offensive game, he could potentially be a Keith-lite. I agree that there's a very good chance he'll be better than Vlasic, likely in the near future.

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03-28-2014, 01:09 AM
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MuffinMerc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TherapyforGlencross View Post
I understand what you're trying to say, but I wouldn't get so optimistic about a defenseman. He could easily take a step back next season (or the season after that) and not become a top 4 defensman. I mean, take a look at Tyler Myers; he had an amazing rookie season (or sophomore year, don't quote me), and look how much he has regressed. Defensemen are very hard to predict, so I would temper your expectations until he proves himself over an extended amount of time.
You've done it now.

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03-28-2014, 01:14 AM
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TherapyforGlencross
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MuffinMerc View Post
You've done it now.
Not sure what I did??

I guess i should have phrased it: don't get optimistic about a younger defenseman as his potential/turnout is a roller coaster.

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03-28-2014, 01:19 AM
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Wotherspoon will be a number one dman. Suter lite.

Book it.

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03-28-2014, 01:28 AM
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Brodie is a liability?!

The guy is 23 years old and is second only to Giordano is some of the most important metrics for a defenseman, such as minutes, quality of competition, and defensive starts. Not to mention he has points?

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03-28-2014, 01:35 AM
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IMO best case scenario for Wotherspoon both in style and ceiling is Niklas Hjalmarsson

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03-28-2014, 01:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TherapyforGlencross View Post
Not sure what I did??

I guess i should have phrased it: don't get optimistic about a younger defenseman as his potential/turnout is a roller coaster.
Optimism thread. I forget who started it, we were on a pretty decent run a year or two ago and once the thread was made **** hit the fan.

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03-28-2014, 01:39 AM
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If we made an optimism thread right now, what would happen? Would we be really good and climb the standings or really bad and tank?

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03-28-2014, 01:43 AM
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OH idk about that... Brodie's already a top 4 guy and has tons of room to grow

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03-28-2014, 01:45 AM
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MuffinMerc
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I actually think when it comes to actually defending, Brodie is edges out Giordano.

Ex:
1:45 Hossa breakaway


If you put Giordano in that position it's likely Gio takes a penalty (holding or interference or whatever) where as Brodie can cleanly deny a scoring opportunity. I can't find a clip but Brodie it this twice to a very fast Tyler Seguin during their game against the Stars. The Gio-Brodie pairing is awesome. Gio is good in the offensive end, Brodie takes up more of the defensive responsibilities.

Downside to Brodie: his shot sucks.

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Old
03-28-2014, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anglesmith View Post
If we made an optimism thread right now, what would happen? Would we be really good and climb the standings or really bad and tank?
Our rebuild would be set back 4 years, so basically the oilers

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Old
03-28-2014, 09:57 AM
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TherapyforGlencross
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
Brodie is a liability?!

The guy is 23 years old and is second only to Giordano is some of the most important metrics for a defenseman, such as minutes, quality of competition, and defensive starts. Not to mention he has points?
When did I say Brodie is a liability???

I was talking about Wotherspoon.


Wotherspoon has played fine, but personally I'm getting super optimistic at this point. While Wotherspoon has played well, he has played against the easiest opposition, but that is expected.


pic from cp

Red= outshot
blue=outshooting


He still needs time in the AHL, I think.

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03-28-2014, 10:56 AM
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Anglesmith
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TherapyforGlencross View Post
When did I say Brodie is a liability???

I was talking about Wotherspoon.
Qubax (OP) did.

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Old
03-28-2014, 11:25 AM
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Brodie is a top pairing dman now at the age of 23, he's also a plus player on our team which is a huge feat in itself. I've been pumping his tires since he was back in Jr's, I've always thought very highly of him and compared him to Keith and Niedermeyer (I was made fun of for it).

I like Wotherspoon a lot, at this point in time I have to say his best case scenario is that he tops out as a #3. I like the Hjarmalsson comparison for him quite a bit. If he is to elevate that ceiling, he needs to further develop his offensive game. I wouldn't put it past him either, but right now I feel very comfortable saying he could become one of the top #3's in the league in 3-4 years time if all goes to plan for him.

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03-28-2014, 12:15 PM
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InfinityIggy
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Originally Posted by MVW View Post
Brodie is a top pairing dman now at the age of 23, he's also a plus player on our team which is a huge feat in itself. I've been pumping his tires since he was back in Jr's, I've always thought very highly of him and compared him to Keith and Niedermeyer (I was made fun of for it).

I like Wotherspoon a lot, at this point in time I have to say his best case scenario is that he tops out as a #3. I like the Hjarmalsson comparison for him quite a bit. If he is to elevate that ceiling, he needs to further develop his offensive game. I wouldn't put it past him either, but right now I feel very comfortable saying he could become one of the top #3's in the league in 3-4 years time if all goes to plan for him.
Agreed Hjarmalsson is a good comparable for Wotherspoon. Brodie in my opinion is a #3 guy right now, very close to crossing into the 'top pairing' barrier.

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03-28-2014, 12:40 PM
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I agree with II on Brodie, he has become a top 4 defenseman but is only a top pairing defenseman on this team because we suck. You put him on a playoff team and he would not be all that close to being a top pairing guy.

As for Wotherspoon, he has played extremely sheltered minutes. The type of minutes that made some think Anton Babchuk was a decent defenseman. It's extremely difficult to rate his quality of play with smaller minutes played against the weakest of competition.

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03-28-2014, 12:45 PM
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There is the fact that Brodie is a plus player on a losing team who plays against the best players on other teams, though. He and Giordano are out there playing against the stars of the NHL and more often than not get the better of them.

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03-28-2014, 12:47 PM
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The one thing I have noticed about Wotherspoon is the ability to see the opportunity in the offensive zone, and make (or attempt) a shockingly good pass. His last two primary assists have been that kind of pass. He's been unremarkable defensively, which isn't necessarily a bad thing but as mentioned its been against unremarkable opponents.

I'd have no problem with him in the bottom pairing to start next season.

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03-28-2014, 03:00 PM
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InfinityIggy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anglesmith View Post
There is the fact that Brodie is a plus player on a losing team who plays against the best players on other teams, though. He and Giordano are out there playing against the stars of the NHL and more often than not get the better of them.
Playing with a guy who (in my opinion) is having a Norris level season, will do that though.

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03-28-2014, 03:03 PM
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Playing with a guy who (in my opinion) is having a Norris level season, will do that though.
That's true, but not by itself. What I'm saying is that Gio and Brodie could be a 1/2 pairing as is on a contending team. Ergo, what is the rationale behind saying that Brodie can't be a #2 defenceman on a contending team?

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03-28-2014, 03:13 PM
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InfinityIggy
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Originally Posted by Anglesmith View Post
That's true, but not by itself. What I'm saying is that Gio and Brodie could be a 1/2 pairing as is on a contending team. Ergo, what is the rationale behind saying that Brodie can't be a #2 defenceman on a contending team?
In my opinion Brodie, at this current moment is a solid #3 guy, who is projecting to be a #2.

By playing with Giordano, Brodie is essentially allowed to jump into the play more often, ect. He can afford to take risks, as well as, make mistakes because Giordano will fill a lot of those lapses.

If you paired Brodie with a guy like Smid on the top pairing, would he still look like a #2? I don't think he would.

So, by saying they would be a 'top-pair' on a contender, you are saying they are an established #1, and #2 guy. Where what is really happening is, Giordano is carrying the pairing, not to say Brodie isn't good, but without a guy like Gio, I don't think he would look nearly as good.

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