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Adam Henrique vs Derek Stepan

View Poll Results: Henrique vs Stepan
Adam Henrique Now and Future 69 37.91%
Adam Henrique Now and Derek Stepan Future 6 3.30%
Derek Stepan Now and Future 93 51.10%
Derek Stepan Now and Adam Henrique Future 10 5.49%
Tied 4 2.20%
Voters: 182. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
04-10-2013, 07:24 AM
  #51
SnowblindNYR
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Originally Posted by masterson View Post
LOL stats aren't everything but... STATS, STATS, pro rated points in a 48 game season, STATS, etc.

Also may the jury note, the NYR fan picking Stepan. Citing "stats" clearly fluffed by playing with Rick Nash. I wonder who would win a poll with Stepan vs Chris Kunitz? How about we note the stat boost Carl hagelin got to begin the year playing with Nash. Yes, Carl Hagelin at one point was on pace for 30 goals and 70 points as well. This is why we watch the games. This is why scouts are paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to go "watch" players, as opposed to GMs just clipping box scores and drafting based on point totals.
First of all Hagelin is a good player. Second of all, if you watch Hagelin play and Stepan play you'll see a clear difference. Third, only on HF stats mean absolutely nothing. Stepan's stats don't even mean that much to me. Henrique's stats are what I'm referring to. The guy is putting up almost identical assist production to one of the worst 3rd line players in the league, a guy that might not be a 4th liner on some teams in Brian Boyle, playing with better linemates. Didn't Henrique play with Kovalchuk last year? A guy WIDELY regarded as better than Nash? Maybe Elias too. Yet you hilariously proclaimed that didn't matter but are making a federal case of Stepan playing with Nash. And I am watching him play and I see him DOMINATE with Nash on almost every shift.

P.S. It may have been Zajac playing with Kovy and Elias, but I'm pretty sure it was Henrique. The rest of my points stand anyway.

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04-10-2013, 07:32 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
Dude, 48 game season. Who cares? Would it matter if Stepan were 39 games into an 82 game season? Also, yes stats don't tell the whole story but when one guy is one pace to ****ing double the other guy after half a season in a normal regular season they mean a little bit. Nash has been helped just as much by Stepan as vice versa. Stepan has played well without him. I LOVE how you know exactly what kind of player Henrique is after 1 good season and playoff run. Also 4 assists in 34 games is 4 assists in 34. As I said Brian Boyle has 3 assists in 35 games (with I'd bet far worse linemates most of the year). It's ****ing putrid, especially for a center. HF LOVES to pretend that stats don't matter at all. When a guy has 4 assists in 34 games as a center not playing on the 4th line he's not doing his job. Also, it's quite laughable that a 22 year old center doesn't change his game. So according to you Stepan is the same player no matter what the stats show and will always be the same player? Thanks for the laugh. Also, there's absolutely no way in your universe that a player can regress, that's never happened before!

P.S. Gaborik showed up when it mattered in the playoffs in 03, pretty much has been a playoff no show since then, let's wait and see until after he has a bigger sample than 1 playoff run.
We heard the same thing about Zajac when he played with Parise and Kovalchuk.

Also, Brian Boyle was a "20 goal scorer" at one point. The didn't all of a sudden mean he was a good hockey player. It didn't mean he could all of a sudden skate with lightning fast speed, or that he developed a pin point shot, or that he figured out how to pass...

Players can progress/regress, obviously, don't know what you are contesting there...
However there is a difference between progressing/regressing as a hockey player, and progressing/regressing on the score sheet, not even taking into consideration the fact that Stepan magically sees a 40% increase in his "stats", coincidentally occurring once he started playing with Rick Nash. Again, perhaps you could address the effects of Chris Kunitz turning into a top 5 player in the league at 33 (if we are relying on stats) and Travis Zajac magically peaking at 24 years old and rapidly deteriorating into a 40-50 point player (again, assuming his stats had nothing to do with Parise)

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04-10-2013, 07:34 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by masterson View Post
We heard the same thing about Zajac when he played with Parise and Kovalchuk.

Also, Brian Boyle was a "20 goal scorer" at one point. The didn't all of a sudden mean he was a good hockey player. It didn't mean he could all of a sudden skate with lightning fast speed, or that he developed a pin point shot, or that he figured out how to pass...

Players can progress/regress, obviously, don't know what you are contesting there...
However there is a difference between progressing/regressing as a hockey player, and progressing/regressing on the score sheet, not even taking into consideration the fact that Stepan magically sees a 40% increase in his "stats", coincidentally occurring once he started playing with Rick Nash. Again, perhaps you could address the effects of Chris Kunitz turning into a top 5 player in the league at 33 (if we are relying on stats) and Travis Zajac magically peaking at 24 years old and rapidly deteriorating into a 40-50 point player (again, assuming his stats had nothing to do with Parise)
Did or did not Henrique play with Kovalchuk and maybe even Elias last season?

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04-10-2013, 07:37 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
First of all Hagelin is a good player. Second of all, if you watch Hagelin play and Stepan play you'll see a clear difference. Third, only on HF stats mean absolutely nothing. Stepan's stats don't even mean that much to me. Henrique's stats are what I'm referring to. The guy is putting up almost identical assist production to one of the worst 3rd line players in the league, a guy that might not be a 4th liner on some teams in Brian Boyle, playing with better linemates. Didn't Henrique play with Kovalchuk last year? A guy WIDELY regarded as better than Nash? Maybe Elias too. Yet you hilariously proclaimed that didn't matter but are making a federal case of Stepan playing with Nash. And I am watching him play and I see him DOMINATE with Nash on almost every shift.

P.S. It may have been Zajac playing with Kovy and Elias, but I'm pretty sure it was Henrique. The rest of my points stand anyway.
There is a clear difference between Stepan and Hagelin, how? I am assuming you are referring to their abilities as hockey players, because "stat" wise, with Rick Nash, they both produced at the same rate.

And I could be mistaken, but I am pretty sure I never brought up the point total or who Henrique played with last year, because it is irrelevant to his skills as a hockey player.

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04-10-2013, 07:37 AM
  #55
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Colton Orr has 3 assists in 36 games! Better than Stepan too!

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04-10-2013, 07:39 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by masterson View Post
There is a clear difference between Stepan and Hagelin, how? I am assuming you are referring to their abilities as hockey players, because "stat" wise, with Rick Nash, they both produced at the same rate.

And I could be mistaken, but I am pretty sure I never brought up the point total or who Henrique played with last year, because it is irrelevant to his skills as a hockey player.
So you're not bringing up who Henrique played with last season but keep yelling about how Stepan is playing with Nash. Glad to see some objectivity, been a long time coming.

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04-10-2013, 07:49 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
So you're not bringing up who Henrique played with last season but keep yelling about how Stepan is playing with Nash. Glad to see some objectivity, been a long time coming.
LOL good lord. I don't know what you are failing to understand. I am not basing my opinion of who is the better player on who either guy plays/played with, or the "numbers" they put up. What aren't you understanding? Substitute Henrique/Stepan on a line with this player or that player, it has no bearing on what they are capable of doing as a hockey player. The stats that are often taken out of context by fan boys insistent on proving to the world that their favorite player is better than another player, are not the basis of judging a hockey player. Does who Carl Hagelin plays with or how many points he puts up change the fact that he is one of the best skaters in the league? Or does Pavel Datsyuk's point totals/linemates have anything to do with the fact that he is arguably one of the best players ever at defending with a stick check?

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04-10-2013, 08:46 AM
  #58
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This thread is a joke!! All you have to do is run the numbers over the last two years from both players and you will get your answer. Masterson, if you promise to tell me what street corner you get your stuff I will break down the numbers for you.

I won't even go back to when they ere 17-18 years old because Stepan crushes him in every catagory possible. I won't even go back to Stepans sophomore year in college where he finished the year second in the country in scoring. Lets jut start at the World Junior Tourament.

Stepan plays 7 games has 14 points, Captains Team USA to a Gold medal and leads the tourney in points and should of gotten the MVP, but because it was in Canada they give it to Eberle. In his first three seasons Stepan has (not including playoffs) 129 points and his point totals have went up every year. As the stats sit today, Stepan leads all American centers in the NHL in points, plus minus, TOI, game winning goals. He has never missed a game in his three year pro career, he kills almost every penalty the Rangers have and plays in every situation for Torts. I think where the biggest difference is there plus minus. Stepan is right now 11th in the league in this catagory on a team that is even. That to me is a big difference in the two. Oh yeah, let me remind you that Stepan is putting up the offenive numbers in one of the most defensive systems in the league also. This year Stepan has had a hand in more than 1/3 of the Rangers goals and he is 22 years old.

Henrique played 6 games in the World Juniors and had 1 goal. He has 65 points in his two seasons in his NHL career. The numbers don't lie dude.

The reason Stepan plays with the likes of Gaborik, Nash, Callahan is because he sees the ice better, is better in his own end, his hockey IQ is better than your boy Henrique, that's why he is playing first line minutes. This equates to being a better hockey player!!

Lets just wait and see which one of these players makes there respective Olympic teams. My guess is that the Rangers will have 3 Americans and 1 Swede, and the Devils will have............... Well one if he could ever stay out of the trainers room. Oh yeah, it won't be Henrique!!


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04-10-2013, 09:14 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Stepanformayor View Post
This thread is a joke!! All you have to do is run the numbers over the last two years from both players and you will get your answer. Masterson, if you promise to tell me what street corner you get your stuff I will break down the numbers for you.

I won't even go back to when they ere 17-18 years old because Stepan crushes him in every catagory possible. I won't even go back to Stepans sophomore year in college where he finished the year second in the country in scoring. Lets jut start at the World Junior Tourament.

Stepan plays 7 games has 14 points, Captains Team USA to a Gold medal and leads the tourney in points and should of gotten the MVP, but because it was in Canada they give it to Eberle. In his first three seasons Stepan has (not including playoffs) 129 points and his point totals have went up every year. As the stats sit today, Stepan leads all American centers in the NHL in points, plus minus, TOI, game winning goals. He has never missed a game in his three year pro career, he kills almost every penalty the Rangers have and plays in every situation for Torts. I think where the biggest difference is there plus minus. Stepan is right now 11th in the league in this catagory on a team that is even. That to me is a big difference in the two. Oh yeah, let me remind you that Stepan is putting up the offenive numbers in one of the most defensive systems in the league also. This year Stepan has had a hand in more than 1/3 of the Rangers goals and he is 22 years old.

Henrique played 6 games in the World Juniors and had 1 goal. He has 65 points in his two seasons in his NHL career. The numbers don't lie dude.

The reason Stepan plays with the likes of Gaborik, Nash, Callahan is because he sees the ice better, is better in his own end, his hockey IQ is better than your boy Henrique, that's why he is playing first line minutes. This equates to being a better hockey player!!

Lets just wait and see which one of these players makes there respective Olympic teams. My guess is that the Rangers will have 3 Americans and 1 Swede, and the Devils will have............... Well one if he could ever stay out of the trainers room. Oh yeah, it won't be Henrique!!
A) It's a lot easier to make team USA than team Canada

B)I doubt he beats out Pavelski, Backes, Kesler or Stastny unless they move to wing

C) Kovalchuk, Volchenkov for Russia. Elias for Czech Republic. Possibly Brodeur for Canada.

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04-10-2013, 09:21 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Stepanformayor View Post
This thread is a joke!! All you have to do is run the numbers over the last two years from both players and you will get your answer. Masterson, if you promise to tell me what street corner you get your stuff I will break down the numbers for you.

I won't even go back to when they ere 17-18 years old because Stepan crushes him in every catagory possible. I won't even go back to Stepans sophomore year in college where he finished the year second in the country in scoring. Lets jut start at the World Junior Tourament.

Stepan plays 7 games has 14 points, Captains Team USA to a Gold medal and leads the tourney in points and should of gotten the MVP, but because it was in Canada they give it to Eberle. In his first three seasons Stepan has (not including playoffs) 129 points and his point totals have went up every year. As the stats sit today, Stepan leads all American centers in the NHL in points, plus minus, TOI, game winning goals. He has never missed a game in his three year pro career, he kills almost every penalty the Rangers have and plays in every situation for Torts. I think where the biggest difference is there plus minus. Stepan is right now 11th in the league in this catagory on a team that is even. That to me is a big difference in the two. Oh yeah, let me remind you that Stepan is putting up the offenive numbers in one of the most defensive systems in the league also. This year Stepan has had a hand in more than 1/3 of the Rangers goals and he is 22 years old.

Henrique played 6 games in the World Juniors and had 1 goal. He has 65 points in his two seasons in his NHL career. The numbers don't lie dude.

The reason Stepan plays with the likes of Gaborik, Nash, Callahan is because he sees the ice better, is better in his own end, his hockey IQ is better than your boy Henrique, that's why he is playing first line minutes. This equates to being a better hockey player!!

Lets just wait and see which one of these players makes there respective Olympic teams. My guess is that the Rangers will have 3 Americans and 1 Swede, and the Devils will have............... Well one if he could ever stay out of the trainers room. Oh yeah, it won't be Henrique!!
I dont know dude.. Stats arent really the best way to compare these 2 players. Henrique has had a difficult season starting from the beginning, i believe he has battled a bit with injuries and his team is one of the worst in the league. Henrique was a major factor to the Devils success in the playoffs last year while Stepan was pretty much the opposite. There's no question Stepan is having a better season right now, but its not all so black and white.

And to be honest, there's no way Stepan is better defensively than Henrique. Henrique has intangibles ( and i dont use this term often ) that Stepan simply doesnt have and IMO that shows when watching him play.

There's an argument for either player but to say one of them is way better is wrong.

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04-10-2013, 09:31 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Stepanformayor View Post
This thread is a joke!! All you have to do is run the numbers over the last two years from both players and you will get your answer. Masterson, if you promise to tell me what street corner you get your stuff I will break down the numbers for you.

I won't even go back to when they ere 17-18 years old because Stepan crushes him in every catagory possible. I won't even go back to Stepans sophomore year in college where he finished the year second in the country in scoring. Lets jut start at the World Junior Tourament.

Stepan plays 7 games has 14 points, Captains Team USA to a Gold medal and leads the tourney in points and should of gotten the MVP, but because it was in Canada they give it to Eberle. In his first three seasons Stepan has (not including playoffs) 129 points and his point totals have went up every year. As the stats sit today, Stepan leads all American centers in the NHL in points, plus minus, TOI, game winning goals. He has never missed a game in his three year pro career, he kills almost every penalty the Rangers have and plays in every situation for Torts. I think where the biggest difference is there plus minus. Stepan is right now 11th in the league in this catagory on a team that is even. That to me is a big difference in the two. Oh yeah, let me remind you that Stepan is putting up the offenive numbers in one of the most defensive systems in the league also. This year Stepan has had a hand in more than 1/3 of the Rangers goals and he is 22 years old.

Henrique played 6 games in the World Juniors and had 1 goal. He has 65 points in his two seasons in his NHL career. The numbers don't lie dude.

The reason Stepan plays with the likes of Gaborik, Nash, Callahan is because he sees the ice better, is better in his own end, his hockey IQ is better than your boy Henrique, that's why he is playing first line minutes. This equates to being a better hockey player!!

Lets just wait and see which one of these players makes there respective Olympic teams. My guess is that the Rangers will have 3 Americans and 1 Swede, and the Devils will have............... Well one if he could ever stay out of the trainers room. Oh yeah, it won't be Henrique!!
Again, same old, same old. This is getting boring, and was too predictable too long ago. Ranger fan, username... Stepanformayor, and oh yea, stats... Oh well

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04-10-2013, 10:39 AM
  #62
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I know you probably won't understand this Masty but this league is about what you have done or me lately! Do you think you win the Selke trophy, Hart trophy, or he Vezina trophy without the stats? I love it when guys can't explain them selves on this board!! In what aspect of the game is Henrique better than Stepan? If you can't supply some stats, please supply something!

Your boy is overrated!! Plain and simple!!

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04-10-2013, 10:58 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Stepanformayor View Post
I know you probably won't understand this Masty but this league is about what you have done or me lately! Do you think you win the Selke trophy, Hart trophy, or he Vezina trophy without the stats? I love it when guys can't explain them selves on this board!! In what aspect of the game is Henrique better than Stepan? If you can't supply some stats, please supply something!

Your boy is overrated!! Plain and simple!!
Henrique is certainly not "my boy", whatever that means...

Its a simple discussion regarding two players on a forum designed for such, although I know to people such as yourself and the brethren the only time you come out to post something is to pimp up one of the heroes that happens to play for the team you root for, that is about the extent of it.

Anyhow, as for the topic of who is the better player, While Stepan is no slouch, Henrique is excellent defensively. His positioning, stick work, ability to block passing lanes, and anticipation in regards to reading plays, i.e. hockey sense are all superior to Stepan. Stepan is a better shot blocker, on defense, that's about it.

Henrique is also a far superior skater. He is more agile, and better in transition. There is really no debating this. Passing Stepan is far better than Henrique, again, not really a debate there. Shooting is pretty much a draw, Henrique has a more accurate shot, better wrister, Stepan has the edge in regards to his release, as well as in close around the net. Overall hockey IQ is Henrique, hands down. Leadership/intangibles again is Henrique, he is a big game player and has been well before even the NHL. Your team would know...

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04-10-2013, 11:02 AM
  #64
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I dont know dude.. Stats arent really the best way to compare these 2 players. Henrique has had a difficult season starting from the beginning, i believe he has battled a bit with injuries and his team is one of the worst in the league. Henrique was a major factor to the Devils success in the playoffs last year while Stepan was pretty much the opposite. There's no question Stepan is having a better season right now, but its not all so black and white.

And to be honest, there's no way Stepan is better defensively than Henrique. Henrique has intangibles ( and i dont use this term often ) that Stepan simply doesnt have and IMO that shows when watching him play.

There's an argument for either player but to say one of them is way better is wrong.
Henrique may be better defensively. Although look at Stepan's +/- on a team that is about even in +/-. I know that stat's not everything, but it's impressive in context. However, comparing the 2 players now, even if Henrique has a slight edge on D, is a joke. Stepan is leaps and bounds better. We're also not talking about a player that had 5 good seasons and is just slumping this year. Henrique has had 1 good season and 1 good postseason, we don't know yet if he played over his head or not. Oh and Stepan is an excellent defensive player and PKer. Probably second best on the team after Callahan.

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04-10-2013, 11:06 AM
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LMAO @ overall hockey IQ is Henrique HANDS DOWN. Stepan has one of the best hockey IQs in the league,. If Henrique has a HANDS DOWN better hockey IQ than Stepan, he must be Sidney ****ing Crosby.

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04-10-2013, 11:22 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Stepanformayor View Post
This thread is a joke!! All you have to do is run the numbers over the last two years from both players and you will get your answer. Masterson, if you promise to tell me what street corner you get your stuff I will break down the numbers for you.

I won't even go back to when they ere 17-18 years old because Stepan crushes him in every catagory possible. I won't even go back to Stepans sophomore year in college where he finished the year second in the country in scoring. Lets jut start at the World Junior Tourament.

Stepan plays 7 games has 14 points, Captains Team USA to a Gold medal and leads the tourney in points and should of gotten the MVP, but because it was in Canada they give it to Eberle. In his first three seasons Stepan has (not including playoffs) 129 points and his point totals have went up every year. As the stats sit today, Stepan leads all American centers in the NHL in points, plus minus, TOI, game winning goals. He has never missed a game in his three year pro career, he kills almost every penalty the Rangers have and plays in every situation for Torts. I think where the biggest difference is there plus minus. Stepan is right now 11th in the league in this catagory on a team that is even. That to me is a big difference in the two. Oh yeah, let me remind you that Stepan is putting up the offenive numbers in one of the most defensive systems in the league also. This year Stepan has had a hand in more than 1/3 of the Rangers goals and he is 22 years old.

Henrique played 6 games in the World Juniors and had 1 goal. He has 65 points in his two seasons in his NHL career. The numbers don't lie dude.

The reason Stepan plays with the likes of Gaborik, Nash, Callahan is because he sees the ice better, is better in his own end, his hockey IQ is better than your boy Henrique, that's why he is playing first line minutes. This equates to being a better hockey player!!

Lets just wait and see which one of these players makes there respective Olympic teams. My guess is that the Rangers will have 3 Americans and 1 Swede, and the Devils will have............... Well one if he could ever stay out of the trainers room. Oh yeah, it won't be Henrique!!
lol this post.

First compares points over first 2-3 seasons, while not mentioning that Stepans first 2 seasons were FULL seasons...while Henrique get's 1 full season and a 48 game season.

Then somehow thinks that Stepan making team USA and Henrique not making team Canada (hypothetically) is a good point to make. I suppose players that make team Germany are also better than Henrique then? lol



Anyway, right now Stepan is better. It should be noted that Henrique has been spotted wearing a wrist splint under his glove. Who knows how long he's been injured for? Guy started out the season on fire then came to a crashing halt (much like the entire Devils offense haha)

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04-10-2013, 11:24 AM
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Hey Smantaz, your right there is no chance he beats out Stasny, he has 18 points this year, or Pavelski he has 22 points this year, no way he beats out Backus he has 24 points. The fact that Stepan led the World Championship team two years ago in points and he led the World Junior Tournament in points three years ago, your right there is no way he beats out ny of these guys. Just another stat for you guys, Stepan has 14 goals and 19 assists this yearor 34 points. I will bet both you and Masterson a steak diner at your choice in Manhattan that Stepan makes the Olympic team. I am not even from New York, but I will fly there and pay up on my bet if he does not make it. Without injury of course!! Do we have ourselves a bet?

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04-10-2013, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by masterson View Post
Henrique is certainly not "my boy", whatever that means...

Its a simple discussion regarding two players on a forum designed for such, although I know to people such as yourself and the brethren the only time you come out to post something is to pimp up one of the heroes that happens to play for the team you root for, that is about the extent of it.

Anyhow, as for the topic of who is the better player, While Stepan is no slouch, Henrique is excellent defensively. His positioning, stick work, ability to block passing lanes, and anticipation in regards to reading plays, i.e. hockey sense are all superior to Stepan. Stepan is a better shot blocker, on defense, that's about it.

Henrique is also a far superior skater. He is more agile, and better in transition. There is really no debating this. Passing Stepan is far better than Henrique, again, not really a debate there. Shooting is pretty much a draw, Henrique has a more accurate shot, better wrister, Stepan has the edge in regards to his release, as well as in close around the net. Overall hockey IQ is Henrique, hands down. Leadership/intangibles again is Henrique, he is a big game player and has been well before even the NHL. Your team would know...
Yeah, I'm gonna disagree there. Stepan has way better vision, playmaking and IQ. It is the bread and butter of his skillset. Henrique is a better skater and probably better defensively but Stepan is no slouch defensively either.

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04-10-2013, 11:46 AM
  #69
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Dontpasstwoclarkson, lets go over this again and maybe you will understand it. Stepan and Henrique were drafted the same year (2008). Maybe the fact that Stepan was drafted 30 players ahead of Henrique should be your first indication that Stepan has a higher ceiling and infact the hockey people that are supposed to know (NHL scouts) drafted Stepan higher than your boy. Usually this fact is not coincidence when a player is drafted higher there is a real good chance that they believe that he has a better chance at being a better player. The second big factor here is that Stepan came into he NHL as a 20 year old and has had three very productive years, and it is very obvious that Henrique was not ready three years ago should be another indication that Stepan is better.


Last edited by Chairman Maouth: 04-10-2013 at 04:25 PM. Reason: edit
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04-10-2013, 11:51 AM
  #70
Krampus
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Originally Posted by masterson View Post
LOL good lord. I don't know what you are failing to understand. I am not basing my opinion of who is the better player on who either guy plays/played with, or the "numbers" they put up. What aren't you understanding? Substitute Henrique/Stepan on a line with this player or that player, it has no bearing on what they are capable of doing as a hockey player. The stats that are often taken out of context by fan boys insistent on proving to the world that their favorite player is better than another player, are not the basis of judging a hockey player. Does who Carl Hagelin plays with or how many points he puts up change the fact that he is one of the best skaters in the league? Or does Pavel Datsyuk's point totals/linemates have anything to do with the fact that he is arguably one of the best players ever at defending with a stick check?
That's exactly what you're doing

You're saying that Stepan is only good because of Nash

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04-10-2013, 12:02 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Affinity View Post
Yeah, I'm gonna disagree there. Stepan has way better vision, playmaking and IQ. It is the bread and butter of his skillset. Henrique is a better skater and probably better defensively but Stepan is no slouch defensively either.
I didn't disagree, Stepan is worlds better at passing/playmaking.

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04-10-2013, 12:10 PM
  #72
AfroThunder396
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
Oh and as far as "one bad month". First of all, the dude has 4 ****ing assists in 34 games at center. That's more than 1 bad month. Second, Stepan had a very slow start to the season, he's still on an almost 70 point pace. Henrique is on a 34 points pace. Henrique is on pace for half the points of Stepan. You guys that think he's better now, I wish you had the choice in real life for this season and took Henrique I'd laugh my ass off.

Edit: LMAO! Brian Boyle has had 1 bad month too. 3 assists in 35 games. If Henrique is lucky he may keep pace!
Why are you cherry picking assists?

Oh yeah, that's right, because he's scored 10 goals in 30 games and is on pace to eclipse last year's goal scoring.

Do David Clarkson's 30 goals last season not count because he only had 17 assists?

New Jersey's offense has dropped from 15th (2.63 G/G) in the league in offense to 27th (2.31 G/G) in the league. The entire team save the Carter, Bernier, Gionta line has regressed offensively. Kovalchuk and Elias, who were 5th and 10th overall in points last year respectively, are both under a PPG. Zajac is having an abhorrent season. Clarkson has 2 goals in his last 25 games. Marty Brodeur is 7th on the team in power play goals. We've scored 12 goals in 7 games since Kovy has been injured.

Context is everything. Singling out one player's regression and completely dismissing him when an entire team is grossly underachieving is both incredibly misleading and unfair to the player.

Maybe next I could make a Chris Kreider vs. Andrei Loktionov 2013 NHL season poll, do you think that would be fair? Or would that be misleading?

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04-10-2013, 12:14 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by CaliDubiZib View Post
That's exactly what you're doing

You're saying that Stepan is only good because of Nash
Again, try reading the threads. Your problem, as well as the problem most kids these days have, rating players based off of video games/fantasy hockey stats, is that your sole basis for "rating" a player is points. That is not how real hockey players are assessed by real teams/gm's/scouts. So I will repeat once again, and please pay attention, Stepan's point totals are inflated because he's been playing with Nash, just as Zajac's were with Parise, and Kunitz's are with Crosby. This has little to do with assessing Stepan's skills as a hockey player. So yes, absolutely, if you are going to come to me and point to his or any other players "point totals", when they play with a top player in the league, in a shortened season, you will be taken as seriously as anyone else with a Ranger avatar who hits up Ranger related polls with a vengeance, feeling as if hyping the heck out of your player on a message board will actually translate to something meaningful.

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04-10-2013, 12:23 PM
  #74
AfroThunder396
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Originally Posted by Stepanformayor View Post
Dontpasstwoclarkson, lets go over this again and maybe you will understand it. Stepan and Henrique were drafted the same year (2008). Maybe the fact that Stepan was drafted 30 players ahead of Henrique should be your first indication that Stepan has a higher ceiling and infact the hockey people that are supposed to know (NHL scouts) drafted Stepan higher than your boy. Usually this fact is not coincidence when a player is drafted higher there is a real good chance that they believe that he has a better chance at being a better player. The second big factor here is that Stepan came into he NHL as a 20 year old and has had three very productive years, and it is very obvious that Henrique was not ready three years ago should be another indication that Stepan is better.
You're using draft position and age as a rookie as marker's of a player's quality?



I guess that Trevor Kidd had a higher ceiling than Marty Brodeur, didn't he?

I guess that Jordan Staal has a higher ceiling than Cluade Giroux, doesn't he?

I guess that Jack Skille has a higher ceiling than Paul Stastny, didn't he?

I guess that David Legwand is a better player than Pavel Datsyuk since he made the NHL when he was younger.

I guess that Bob Essensa had a higher ceiling than Dominik Hasek, didn't he?

I guess that Patrice Brisebois was better than Nicklas Lidstrom because he made the NHL when he was younger.

etc, etc.

Now would you like a glass of milk before I tuck you in?

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04-10-2013, 12:47 PM
  #75
SMantzas
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Stepanformayor: since you love using small sample sizes to dictate who the better player is, let's look at playoffs.

Henrique: 24 games played 5-8-13 +12 3 gwg (2 series clinchers)

Stepan: 25 games played 1-8-9 -2

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