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Whats your Opinion of Kesler?

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Old
02-25-2013, 01:57 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by SDK View Post
We could get a metric ton with a Kesler + Schneider package.

I bet Kesler/Schneider/Prospect/1st gets us Ovechkin.
The 65 goal Ovenchicken is long gone. He's a 9.5M black hole these days.

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02-25-2013, 01:58 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by TallPoppySyndrome View Post
Dose anyone have or know how to get the zone start %s for before and after Manny left?
timeonice.com is usually great for that but the scripts haven't been updated for this season so there's nothing there. Just from glancing at the game sheets since Kesler returned I think the following is fairly accurate:

With Malhotra:

Sedin: 70-75%
Schroeder: 65%
Malhotra/Lapierre: 25%
Burrows/Ebbett/etc.: 40%


Without Malhotra:

Sedin: 65%
Kesler: 33%
Schroeder: 50%
Lapierre: 30%


The combined numbers in the 2nd group are lower because the Canucks as a team have had fewer offensive zone starts relative to their first 12 or so games.

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02-25-2013, 02:05 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by 94eleven View Post
I specifically said most complete and not best for that reason.
Staal/Staal?

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02-25-2013, 02:50 AM
  #104
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Staal/Staal?
There is a good argument for that duo and for Datsyuk/Zetterberg

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02-25-2013, 02:59 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by kanuck87 View Post
So after one season where he was nowhere near 100% and 6 games after coming off of a major surgery, he's not elite defensively anymore
He hasn't proven to be over the last season and 6 games no, but we'll see. He's a 28 year old forward who plays a very physical game, and he's had several serious injuries in a short amount of time. IMO we're never going to see him as good as he was 09-11, but I really do hope i'm wrong.

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02-25-2013, 03:51 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by keslerbomb View Post
I think his 40 goal season is the worst thing that could have happened to him. He's not an elite sniper, but he seems to think he is now. His game was best when he was a 25-30 goal scorer that was elite defensively and agitated.
I agree that since the 40 goal Selke season and the Cup run he's been a different player, a far worse player and I refuse to blame all that on the injuries. It's more mental.

I think after that season, as he became a legitimate star and an elite player in the league, his ego took over. There's a fine line between being cocky and being confident and he crossed it after his career year, and hasn't been able to recover since. And a player like Kesler, who is only as great as his work ethic and commitment is, can't be an elite player with that attitude.

People always talk about how hard worker he is, how he is the heart of this team and how great of a 2 way player he is, but it seems people just take it for granted from his reputation rather than actually watch the games.

Compared to the old Kesler that 99% of fan base thought will never be more than an elite third line shutdown center, you wouldn't recognize this current Kesler as the same player anymore. That grinder mentality isn't there anymore, he thinks he's better than that which obviously isn't the case. And stats are not the only thing it effects either, he's way worse in defensive zone and on backcheck too.

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02-25-2013, 04:25 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Vajakki View Post
And stats are not the only thing it effects either, he's way worse in defensive zone and on backcheck too.
You can criticize his offensive game all you want, but the last two games might be the worst defensive play of Kesler's entire career.. Don't buy that he's bad on backcheck and dzone now that's a load of BS

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02-25-2013, 04:34 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by kanuck87 View Post
Let's face it. This is the biggest issue anyone has with him. Here's a guy who has been through two major surgeries, one which affected his play last season, and interrupted the beginning of this season, and he gets completely no benefit of the doubt even after only 6 games. This is pretty pathetic.


******** on refs getting sick of his antics. And there is a lot of over reaction and over criticism here. But mostly a whole lot of conjecture and bs guessing on what the refs think of him.

HE HAS 4 PENALTY MINUTES !!

How are some of you people saying that the refs are getting sick of his antics ... ?? I am happy about your inside scoop into the brains of every ref out there, but holy.

Heart of the team --- If you don't know what that means, just shut off the computer. Just walk away. Heart of a team is simply the leader, the one people follow, the one that can ignite good play (or bad), etc, etc. Pretty basic stuff here.

And if Burrows is the heart of the team -- he's more likely the one the refs don't love so much. He has 13 minor penalties this year. 5 more than the next guy.

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02-25-2013, 04:42 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by LetsBeReality View Post
******** on refs getting sick of his antics. And there is a lot of over reaction and over criticism here. But mostly a whole lot of conjecture and bs guessing on what the refs think of him.

HE HAS 4 PENALTY MINUTES !!

How are some of you people saying that the refs are getting sick of his antics ... ?? I am happy about your inside scoop into the brains of every ref out there, but holy.

Heart of the team --- If you don't know what that means, just shut off the computer. Just walk away. Heart of a team is simply the leader, the one people follow, the one that can ignite good play (or bad), etc, etc. Pretty basic stuff here.

And if Burrows is the heart of the team -- he's more likely the one the refs don't love so much. He has 13 minor penalties this year. 5 more than the next guy.
Back to Narnia for you.

I was on the Kesler for prez wagon but after seeing his play the last couple of years which includes the do it all himself and the getting off his game antics I see that the decision to anoint Hank was the right choice.

His tumbleweed impersonation against Richards last year is a perfect example. Not because he became a tumbleweed but because he was doing something Ive not seen a player do before (was that a new way to check guys) and it seemed to me that he was more focused on Richards than on the game.

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02-25-2013, 04:46 AM
  #110
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I think he's very effective when healthy. It's hard to find a strong 2 way centreman, even harder to find them for the right price.

Unfortunately, we haven't seen a healthy Kesler since 2010-11 season. I have no faith in him staying healthy based on his last 4 or 5 yrs in the league - where he's been injured every yr. It's why I'm adamant if the Canucks trade a goalie, they better be getting a C in return.

Also, the embellishing on the ice. It has to stop. Anyone see it in the 1st period tonight? He's not the only one, it's a league wide epidemic, but he's well known amongst the officials - and it hurts the entire team. Is he not embarrassed that he was used as an example amongst the NHLPA? If that were you, wouldn't you feel shame and want to change? I just don't understand this guy.

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02-25-2013, 04:50 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Derp Kassian View Post
Don't buy that he's bad on backcheck and dzone now that's a load of BS
He's not bad. I never said he was bad. See Kassian or Hodgson, that is bad. Kesler is still above average even with his struggles. He's just nowhere near where he used to be.

Kesler is just standing around too much. Too much reacting and chasing instead of anticipation and reading especially in neutral zone. His checking is loose and weak. It's almost like he doesn't really want to do those things anymore, so it looks like he's constantly a step behind (very common happening around the NHL with players who prioritize the offensive side of things).

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02-25-2013, 04:51 AM
  #112
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Kesler is always injured so that makes no difference. He was invisible this past post season and it can only be argued that he outperformed the Sedins in 2 playoff series ever.

TOTALLY weird concept.

The first line players outplaying the 2nd line players.

I don't know where everyone got their expectations, but you should really re-evaluate.

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02-25-2013, 04:54 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Lonny Bohonos View Post
Back to Narnia for you.

I was on the Kesler for prez wagon but after seeing his play the last couple of years which includes the do it all himself and the getting off his game antics I see that the decision to anoint Hank was the right choice.

His tumbleweed impersonation against Richards last year is a perfect example. Not because he became a tumbleweed but because he was doing something Ive not seen a player do before (was that a new way to check guys) and it seemed to me that he was more focused on Richards than on the game.


Yes. I don't care at all if you are sick of his antics. That's not even the discussion.

We were discussing the REFS being sick of his antics.

There's been nothing to indicate it. It's completely stupid to speculate and it lends to the idea other stupid assumptions are being made by those who are being over critical IMO.

And if you thought that he ever should have been captain, I don't know if I can understand your perspective on him at all.

He wasn't even the top three options for the job.

He plays hard, does the tough work that not everyone can do as well as him. But he's a weird dude off the ice.

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02-25-2013, 05:03 AM
  #114
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He plays such a rambunctious style, he's always crashing into someone or something or getting hit by a puck or stick or going down awkward-like. You wonder if it's even possible for him to ever play at 100% healthy. I don't think he deserves his reputation for diving/embellishing, it's a product of him always going all-out 100%. I could name a dozen players who dive worse easily. That's all just enemy attempts to drive narrative and tar the Canucks. L.A. just won a Cup flopping all the way and nobody batted an eye; Kesler is unfairly singled out. I will say though, Kes and Booth coming back in messed up our chemistry and threw off the defensive assignments, we need some practice time to get everyone on the same page again.

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02-25-2013, 05:08 AM
  #115
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He's done the embellishment act at least 3 times on this road trip. The **** needs to stop.

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02-25-2013, 05:23 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Smokey McCanucks View Post
He plays such a rambunctious style, he's always crashing into someone or something or getting hit by a puck or stick or going down awkward-like. You wonder if it's even possible for him to ever play at 100% healthy. I don't think he deserves his reputation for diving/embellishing, it's a product of him always going all-out 100%. I could name a dozen players who dive worse easily. That's all just enemy attempts to drive narrative and tar the Canucks. L.A. just won a Cup flopping all the way and nobody batted an eye; Kesler is unfairly singled out. I will say though, Kes and Booth coming back in messed up our chemistry and threw off the defensive assignments, we need some practice time to get everyone on the same page again.
Kesler, not unlike any other player, plays best when hes focused. Regardless of whether hes playing rambunctious or not.

The problem and I think Burrows also suffers from this is that Kesler seems to easily lose focus.

I am assuming this is the gist of the conversation MG had with him a few years back. Along the lines of "you can be a great player in this league when you want to be. You just need to focus on being and not the other stuff (chirping, trying to draw penalties, focusing on one player etc).

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...cs-last-night/

Quote:
“You try to get other people off their game by talking and things like that, but for me, though, I wasn’t focusing on what I do best, and that’s be a solid, two-way player,” he said in Jan. 2011. “I’m focused more. From whistle to whistle, I play hard and let that other stuff go by the wayside.

“We, collectively and as a group, wanted to mature. I’m just doing my part.”
Im trying my best to think of a time where I felt the Sedins had lost focus.


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02-25-2013, 05:35 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by LetsBeReality View Post
Yes. I don't care at all if you are sick of his antics. That's not even the discussion.

We were discussing the REFS being sick of his antics.

There's been nothing to indicate it. It's completely stupid to speculate and it lends to the idea other stupid assumptions are being made by those who are being over critical IMO.

And if you thought that he ever should have been captain, I don't know if I can understand your perspective on him at all.

He wasn't even the top three options for the job.

He plays hard, does the tough work that not everyone can do as well as him. But he's a weird dude off the ice.
Huh?

Who was ahead of Kesler for the job? Most people had either him or Hank.



As for whether those in the game see Keslers Antics:


http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...8143--nhl.html


Quote:
To that end, a few of the names prominently mentioned in those meetings have been leaked by Darren Dreger of TSN. Chief among them: Ryan Kesler of the Vancouver Canucks.

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02-25-2013, 06:47 AM
  #118
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Keeler is an elite two-way player who's still young. However, since his breakout season he hasn't had the guidance needed for him to maintain his true potential.

His icetime, especially now coming off an injury has been mismanaged completely. He plays a physical style that needs a break sometimes. We are basically asking him to be datsyuk, but his game has way more edge.

Speaking of datsyuk, we haven't done a good job of coaching Kesler. You don't call out one of your best players in the media for not using his linemates. You don't just stand by and watch him unleash long wristers on every rush. You draw up plays for him, ones where he is the triggerman and others where he is the playmaker. You work with his ego, not let it run rampant.

Nobody taught kes how to pick his spots other. Or forced him to sit out when he was injured. or kept on him after that first GMMG talking to three years ago.

I think Ryan can be even better than two years ago. But we've got to help him.

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02-25-2013, 07:31 AM
  #119
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^ I see a lot of people posting along the lines of that, and I have to disagree. That's just sugarcoating the issues and directing the blame to someone else's shoulders. A player of this caliber should be held accountable and responsible for his own actions. The amount of leeway some players get based on reputation and previous accomplishments is too damn high.

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02-25-2013, 08:08 AM
  #120
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6 Games in, and there is a thinly vieled anti-kesler thread already. The arguments people have against him or to a lesser extent in favour here, has been mind boggling to say the least :/

With that said, he's obviously my favourite player, but he has got to stop the diving and theatrics. He hasn't whined as much before, which is a good start I guess.

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02-25-2013, 08:11 AM
  #121
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I wish he never had his 41 goal season. He's now got a massive ego, forgot what a pass is, and is underperforming his contract.

I'd rather have him as an elite third line C and worked on getting a guy who can make plays involving his linemates on the 2nd line.

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02-25-2013, 08:15 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by LetsBeReality View Post
Heart of the team --- If you don't know what that means, just shut off the computer. Just walk away. Heart of a team is simply the leader, the one people follow, the one that can ignite good play (or bad), etc, etc. Pretty basic stuff here.
By that definition, it would be Burrows and Hansen, followed by the Sedins.

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02-25-2013, 08:31 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by mossey3535 View Post
Keeler is an elite two-way player who's still young. However, since his breakout season he hasn't had the guidance needed for him to maintain his true potential.

His icetime, especially now coming off an injury has been mismanaged completely. He plays a physical style that needs a break sometimes. We are basically asking him to be datsyuk, but his game has way more edge.

Speaking of datsyuk, we haven't done a good job of coaching Kesler. You don't call out one of your best players in the media for not using his linemates. You don't just stand by and watch him unleash long wristers on every rush. You draw up plays for him, ones where he is the triggerman and others where he is the playmaker. You work with his ego, not let it run rampant.

Nobody taught kes how to pick his spots other. Or forced him to sit out when he was injured. or kept on him after that first GMMG talking to three years ago.

I think Ryan can be even better than two years ago. But we've got to help him.
Two things.

Kesler is not "young". Hes a vet.

How do you know all those things havent been discussed/taught?

And yes that post was too "sweet" for my liking.

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02-25-2013, 08:54 AM
  #124
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I also dont understand the need to compare Kesler to Datsyuk.

To me they are not even close.

Dats is maybe one of if not the best defensive forward to have played meanwhile on the side he adds a dash or two of points, 87,87,97,97 seasons.

All the while wearing a tophat and monocle as the most gentlemanly player.

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02-25-2013, 10:13 AM
  #125
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Kesler is a petulant, competetive, sometimes selfish player. Doesn't move the puck particularly well, but is strong on the puck, willing to take it to the net, and he's able to generate offence on the rush. Plays a physical game and takes his defensive game seriously. (Though, he's struggled this season.)

He's capable of being an excellent, two-way player, and at his best is a premier player in this league. I wonder, though, if his best days haven't already passed him by. He's suffered a lot of injuries over the years - are they taking a toll?

I also think this idea that he's a playoff warrior is largely undeserved. His series against Nashville might be the greatest playoff hockey any Canuck has ever played, but he's not had much success in the playoffs before or since.

And I can do without the constant diving and grimacing. Every time he gets touched, it looks like he'll be out 4-6 weeks.

In summary, good player, but one I find difficult to cheer for. He's not been very good this season, but I suppose we need to give him a couple of weeks to get his game going.

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