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Old
02-25-2013, 10:14 AM
  #126
AmazingNuck
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Originally Posted by me2 View Post
I'd try and chase down an offensive 2c and move Kesler to 3c. Given all the 2nd and 3rd line wingers are basically the same level it wouldn't matter what the lines were called.
Kind of like Schroeder?

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02-25-2013, 10:48 AM
  #127
vadim sharifijanov
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okay so here's the thing. kesler is back, the sedins are rolling, and we're losing games. plus, we look awful. and kassian, who was a revelation at the beginning of the season, has been a non-factor.

here's what we need to do to get the team going:

burrows - kesler - hansen. kesler needs time to get up to full speed. so give him two wingers who can bang and crash for him and help with the defensive duties. you're basically protecting kesler from himself here. and if those three guys get going, that will energize the entire team.

the offence will come, and it will come with that combination. but for now, more important to get kesler in a rhythm, grind down the opposition, create turnovers, create momentum for the rest of the team.

meanwhile, give kassian another shot with the sedins, and when boots gets over the sniffles might as well see what schroeder can do with two blind wingers. higgins has been our best player effort-wise and mentally, imo, and doesn't deserve to be demoted. he's a big boy and knows how it goes, but throw him a shot on the first line too and maybe rotate him and kass on the 1st/4th.

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02-25-2013, 02:17 PM
  #128
shortshorts
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Originally Posted by M A K A V E L I View Post
The 65 goal Ovenchicken is long gone. He's a 9.5M black hole these days.
Ovenchicekn is not gone. The system that helped facilitate it is. Put Ovechkin in our system would do extremely well.

I would definitely do Ovechkin for Kesler, Ballard, Rodin, 1st 2014, but nothing more than that.

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02-25-2013, 03:25 PM
  #129
mossey3535
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Originally Posted by Vajakki View Post
^ I see a lot of people posting along the lines of that, and I have to disagree. That's just sugarcoating the issues and directing the blame to someone else's shoulders. A player of this caliber should be held accountable and responsible for his own actions. The amount of leeway some players get based on reputation and previous accomplishments is too damn high.
That is holding him accountable to his own actions. We've basically given him two years to work it out on his own and he hasn't.

So now you basically tell him what to do. But you have to let people save face, you can't just force them into doing things. So you work with him. Like Yzerman turned himself into a 2-way player when Bowman came along - he didn't 'figure it out' or 'take responsibility for his play'. He had to be convinced to change his game.

I think Kesler is an elite two-way player who hasn't managed to sustain elite play. How is that sugarcoating?

You guys really think Kesler thinks 'oh I am playing so well'? He knows he sucks...but he keeps doing what he does...and he works and tries harder but still doing the wrong things. That means he's in a rut, he can't see the forest for the trees. That's where coaching comes in.

You guys seem to think motivation is - oh you have sucked lately, play better. WTF? Although he is responsible for his selfishness, the coaches and organization have their own responsibilities in his development as well. And now is the time for them to step in because it hasn't been working for the last 1.5 years.

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02-25-2013, 03:55 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by mossey3535 View Post
I think Kesler is an elite two-way player who hasn't managed to sustain elite play. How is that sugarcoating?
So in reality he isn't elite level anymore? You had these, kind of excuses I guess, to explain Kesler's decline. Like the lack of guidance he has had, the amount of minutes he has played or the way he's picking his spots. I thought that was sugarcoating the real issues a bit. I mean, he's a veteran already, not a young player like you originally said.

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Originally Posted by mossey3535 View Post
You guys really think Kesler thinks 'oh I am playing so well'? He knows he sucks...but he keeps doing what he does...and he works and tries harder but still doing the wrong things. That means he's in a rut, he can't see the forest for the trees. That's where coaching comes in.

And now is the time for them to step in because it hasn't been working for the last 1.5 years.
I agree that something needs to be done but we've all seen how Kesler takes (fair and reasonable) criticism. His ego is too big for that. It's tough to work with someone like that. All that diving for example, it has been mentioned by everyone including AV and Gillis and he still keeps flopping around every game.

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02-25-2013, 04:19 PM
  #131
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Since last year's playoffs my opionion of Kesler has been that he is an embarrasment and a complete joke when he reverts to his flopping and diving ways. Thoroughly disgusting when he feels he has to dive around and then proceeds to look the fool when he's doing it. When he stays away from that crap he's what drives that team, when he starts with it he's part of what sinks this team.

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02-25-2013, 04:19 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Vajakki View Post
So in reality he isn't elite level anymore? You had these, kind of excuses I guess, to explain Kesler's decline. Like the lack of guidance he has had, the amount of minutes he has played or the way he's picking his spots. I thought that was sugarcoating the real issues a bit. I mean, he's a veteran already, not a young player like you originally said.
The real issue here is that people never really liked Kesler, even when he was the 40-goal Selke-winner. Now that there is a semblance of him struggling, the haters are coming out in full force, bashing him at every opportunity and it's not because he's not playing well. Notice how all assessments of his poor play is always accompanied by wanting him to stop his antics.

Kesler looks like the same dangerous player that he was two seasons ago, but there is also a lot of rust. He didn't use his teammates back then, and all he did back then was shoot as well. 41 goals and 32 assists means that he probably didn't pass much.

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02-25-2013, 04:21 PM
  #133
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arrogant player. even though i like him. hes gotta stop the diving antics and yapping. rubs off on most of the guys. he needs to start using his linemates. dont be like ovie. one move shoot off the shinpads. etc etc

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02-25-2013, 05:16 PM
  #134
mossey3535
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Originally Posted by Vajakki View Post
So in reality he isn't elite level anymore? You had these, kind of excuses I guess, to explain Kesler's decline. Like the lack of guidance he has had, the amount of minutes he has played or the way he's picking his spots. I thought that was sugarcoating the real issues a bit. I mean, he's a veteran already, not a young player like you originally said.



I agree that something needs to be done but we've all seen how Kesler takes (fair and reasonable) criticism. His ego is too big for that. It's tough to work with someone like that. All that diving for example, it has been mentioned by everyone including AV and Gillis and he still keeps flopping around every game.
ok, so he's a lost cause then?

I have no problems acknowledging Kes's immaturity issues. I didn't want him to be the captain when it was given to Hank for that reason.

I just think we need the coaching staff to really sit down with him and help him evolve his offensive game. That's the best way to approach this. And this means benching him from time to time, well that all goes back to managing his icetime as I mentioned before.

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02-25-2013, 05:49 PM
  #135
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stop getting frustrated so easily.

Stop DIVING! Everyone knows how strong he is on his skates. Then he goes down like a little ***** and for some reason gets even more upset cause he doesn't get a call.

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02-25-2013, 06:29 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Lindt View Post
... is underperforming his contract.
$5 million is still decent value for Kesler even if he only plays at last year's level. I think expectations were raised too high after two years ago, and people are disappointed relative to that.

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02-25-2013, 06:33 PM
  #137
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Kesler isn't Kesler right now, he's still trying to find his groove.

Give him time.

Wish he'd stop diving though.

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02-25-2013, 06:50 PM
  #138
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Immaturity is resurfacing in his game. His IQ is questionable also. The solo play is doing him no favours and he's not up to snuff defensively. But the play stuff should be rectified eventually. It's the attitude. That's what it comes down to with him. The mindset he takes into games doesn't lend itself to bein focused and deliberate. Without it, he will be ever inconsistent and reactionary.

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02-25-2013, 07:56 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by AmazingNuck View Post
Kind of like Schroeder?
Schroeder in about 3 years if/when he's putting up 60-70 points. That Schroeder would be fantastic.


Last edited by me2: 02-25-2013 at 08:57 PM.
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02-25-2013, 08:12 PM
  #140
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As long as he gets himself ready for the PO,I'm fine.Even with this terrible performance you can see his importance for this team.

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02-25-2013, 09:07 PM
  #141
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I think expectations were raised too high after two years ago, and people are disappointed relative to that.
I don't know that that's the case. He scored 41 goals in his Selke year on 260ish shots. Last season he took 220ish shots. Even so, one of the biggest criticisms of him was that he looked for the shot too often instead of finding his linemates.

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02-25-2013, 09:32 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Royal Canuck View Post
Kesler isn't Kesler right now, he's still trying to find his groove.

Give him time.

Wish he'd stop diving though.
I don`t find diving acceptable, and Kesler is a complete bonehead when it comes to diving. For instance, in that game this season where he was called for diving when we were already on the power play. A lot of the time refs may let diving go, but you`re just asking to be called for a diving penalty if you tried to make it a 5 on 3 via diving.

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02-25-2013, 09:34 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by luongo321 View Post
I don`t find diving acceptable, and Kesler is a complete bonehead when it comes to diving. For instance, in that game this season where he was called for diving we were already on the power play. A lot of the time refs may let diving go, but your just asking to be called for a diving penalty if you tried to make it a 5 on 3 via diving.
On at least 2 of the PPs we've gotten since Kesler's return, he's been more preoccupied with trying to draw another penalty (via diving) to get the 5 on 3 instead of just working hard on the PP. It's Infuriating.

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02-26-2013, 12:19 AM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Vajakki View Post
Compared to the old Kesler that 99% of fan base thought will never be more than an elite third line shutdown center, you wouldn't recognize this current Kesler as the same player anymore. That grinder mentality isn't there anymore, he thinks he's better than that which obviously isn't the case. And stats are not the only thing it effects either, he's way worse in defensive zone and on backcheck too.
Yup.

Players have offensive slumps, it happens to everyone. I don't think anyone really expect Kesler to be a perennial 40 goal scorer, so even if it's more than a slump for him, so be it.

But while Richards, Bergeron, J. Staal, etc. are in the Selke conversation every year, Kesler isn't even close this year. The defensive play is completely gone. Maybe Malhotra's absence means he's facing tougher matchups, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Agreed with everyone else that I'd rather see Kesler playing like a gritty "3rd line center" that scores 20-25 goals and 25-30 assists than what it seems his game is evolving into.

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02-26-2013, 12:24 AM
  #145
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Originally Posted by vancityluongo View Post
Yup.

Players have offensive slumps, it happens to everyone. I don't think anyone really expect Kesler to be a perennial 40 goal scorer, so even if it's more than a slump for him, so be it.

But while Richards, Bergeron, J. Staal, etc. are in the Selke conversation every year, Kesler isn't even close this year. The defensive play is completely gone. Maybe Malhotra's absence means he's facing tougher matchups, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Agreed with everyone else that I'd rather see Kesler playing like a gritty "3rd line center" that scores 20-25 goals and 25-30 assists than what it seems his game is evolving into.
I think this underlines how much we need a legit offensively-gifted top 6 player. A lot of our players have overachieved/maxed out their offensive potential and I don't see them getting back there. Kesler's 40 goal season is one of those examples.

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02-26-2013, 12:28 AM
  #146
aandbreatheme
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Originally Posted by vancityluongo View Post
But while Richards, Bergeron, J. Staal, etc. are in the Selke conversation every year, Kesler isn't even close this year. The defensive play is completely gone. Maybe Malhotra's absence means he's facing tougher matchups, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
I don't know too much about J. Staal's defensive play nor Bergeron's (this year), but my God is Mike Richards overrated. He has only been nominated for the Selke once (2009), currently sits at a -4, while Kesler has been nominated three years straight (2009, 2010, 2011) and he actually won it; he has only played 5-6 games thus far. Give him a little time to amp up his defensive play.

As for his offensive tendencies, well that is where the ultimate concern lies.

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02-26-2013, 12:30 AM
  #147
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Old
02-26-2013, 12:49 AM
  #148
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Seems like Kesler's a little damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

My opinion of him is that he is a guy that will do anything to win. Make a big hit? Done. Fight? Done. Block a shot? Done. Kill a penalty? Done. Draw a penalty by any means possible? Done. Score big goals? Done.

That comes with certain stigmas. Yes, he dives. Yes, he embellishes, and yes he can be a royal pain in the ass - but all those things contribute to what makes him an effective player to have on your team. He isn't there to win respect from his opponents, he's there to try and win.

When it works, people either laud him for it or ignore him completely. When it doesn't work, or - worse - it backfires (penalty for diving), he gets completely raked over the coals.

The bottom line is that - with the possible exception of Burrows - there is no player on the Canucks who is as equally effective as Kesler is at both ends of the ice.

As for right now, I don't think anyone should be surprised that he's struggling. He had more than half a year where he wasn't able to do a whole heck of a lot, and he's struggling to adapt. It happens. He's been through it before, and he's managed to regain his form. He'll get back to the level we expect from him.

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02-26-2013, 12:55 AM
  #149
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trade him for an offensive center

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02-26-2013, 01:06 AM
  #150
Royal Canuck
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trade him for an offensive center
Because we need more of those.

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