Short term this isn't great for the teams playoff chances, but it's not much worse than it was before. Long term, who knows. The Flyers and Rangers haven't been good this year and they aren't in great shape cap wise going forward with their albatross contracts and homegrown guys needing renewals soon. Pittsburgh is Pittsburgh, no arguments there, but now Malkin has concussion issues too. Columbus scares me more than Washington long term because JD is a great executive and they are going to wind up with McKinnon/Jones and could wind up with McDavid too.
Also you think it might be nice to see guys like Crosby, Malkin, Gaborik, Nash, Kovalchuk, Giroux, etc, more during the regular season than seeing Stamkos and literally nothing else. As a kid going to Whalers games I didn't think oh **** the Penguins are coming to town, I said I can't wait to watch Mario Lemieux play. Then the Whalers shadowed him the whole game, including on the PP. He skated himself out of the play to turn it into a 4 on 3 and they immediately scored. I don't remember which asshat coach dreamed that up, because the Whalers had too many asshat coaches to keep track of.
Short term this isn't great for the teams playoff chances, but it's not much worse than it was before. Long term, who knows. The Flyers and Rangers haven't been good this year and they aren't in great shape cap wise going forward with their albatross contracts and homegrown guys needing renewals soon. Pittsburgh is Pittsburgh, no arguments there, but now Malkin has concussion issues too. Columbus scares me more than Washington long term because JD is a great executive and they are going to wind up with McKinnon/Jones and could wind up with McDavid too.
Also you think it might be nice to see guys like Crosby, Malkin, Gaborik, Nash, Kovalchuk, Giroux, etc, more during the regular season than seeing Stamkos and literally nothing else. As a kid going to Whalers games I didn't think oh **** the Penguins are coming to town, I said I can't wait to watch Mario Lemieux play. Then the Whalers shadowed him the whole game, including on the PP. He skated himself out of the play to turn it into a 4 on 3 and they immediately scored. I don't remember which asshat coach dreamed that up, because the Whalers had too many asshat coaches to keep track of.
Short and long term its a devastating blow to the future of this franchise. Either we spend to the Cap every year, taking on massive losses when we don't make the playoffs, or we simply don't compete and don't have a prayer of making the playoffs.
Taking the Top 3 only out of this division... its impossible the Canes will be there consistently. We're not a big enough market team to do it. Top 3 and the division consists of Philadelphia, the Rangers, and the Penguins. Those are 3 teams that will spend and spend and spend to make sure they are loaded with talent, and thats something we will never be able to do.
We're completely hosed long-term unless we consistently have once in a lifetime kind of talent in one player that others want to play with.
I'm still not sold on the Rangers long term in all honesty. Yes I know, top of the conference last year, but before that they were about on par with us with the only thing making them a playoff team more often then us is a goalie that's better at the extraneous skills competition. Quite literally. If their talent doesn't turn out as good as it did last year, if last year was simply a product of career years out of their players that they don't come close to reproducing, they're a more competitive version of what they were pre-lockout due to better goaltending. A team that overspends on free agents but that lacks the ability to be consistently elite.
The Flyers are much less frightening now that Giroux has come crashing down to Earth. Briere and Bryzgalov are old and on horrible contracts, and that defense is 'Canes quality. Bottom 5 in the League. They sure could use Pitkanen.
The Devils are an unstoppable machine, greater than the sum of its parts. But losing Brodeur is huge, and they have no one to replace him.
Pittsburgh is Pittsburgh.
Rangers are collapsing....they are currently a 6th-8th seed that overachieved last year. Nash, Gaborik and Richards are all on albatross contracts (surprise surprise).
Islanders suck.
Columbus scares me, because they play that gritty style and try to physically impose their will. They're going to get a ton of talent in this draft (3 top ten picks WTF???).
Washington doesn't scare me in the slightest.
Still not the end of the world. We have a core of young players (Faulk, Skinner, J. Staal, Murphy) that can compete with the young core of any of these teams.
Point is, it looks bad now, but none of these teams have young players (~23 and younger) that are better than ours outside of the Flyers (Schenn, Schenn, Giroux, SImmonds, Voracek, Coutuier). What we lack in quantity makes up for in quality, and we're competitive with everyone else.
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"You will never be happy if you continue to search for what happiness consists of. You will never live if you are looking for the meaning of life." - Albert Camus
It just seems to me that a lot of this anxiety is linked to perceptions of the teams which are based on the here-and-now, rather than how they are going to cycle up and down over time.
Here is the way these "new eastern" teams looked 10 years ago, with the divisions color coded:
Ottawa 113
Detroit 110
New Jersey 108
Philadelphia 107
Toronto 98
Tampa 93
Washington 92
Boston 87
Islanders 83
Rangers 78
Montreal 77
Buffalo 72
Florida 70
Columbus 69
Pittsburgh 65
Carolina 61
And then five years ago:
Detroit 115
Montreal 104
Pittsburgh 102
New Jersey 99
Rangers 97
Flyers 95
Ottawa 94
Washington 94
Boston 94
Carolina 92
Buffalo 90
Florida 85
Toronto 83
Columbus 80
Islanders 79
Tampa 71
And then last year:
Rangers 109
Pittsburgh 108
Philadelphia 103
Boston 102
New Jersey 102
Detroit 102
Florida 94
Washington 92
Buffalo 89
Tampa Bay 84
Carolina 82
Toronto 80
Islanders
Montreal 78
Columbus 65
So yeah, in the here and now the Atlantic Division teams have peaked and it would be awfully tough if we were making this transition tomorrow. But historically, those teams have not showed a particularly strong level of staying power that isn't at least equaled by the Original Six teams which are condensed into the new-Northeast Division.
Montreal is a good example of a team that looks weak right now (and I'm saying that with them 1st in the conference based on overachievement), but has the pieces in place to make a couple of quick UFA moves and suddenly become a juggernaut. Boston is set to at least be solid for years to come. Detroit will eventually draft and spend their way back to contention. That's 3 teams I fear long-term more than any of the Atlantic teams other than maybe the Rangers.
People keep saying Pittsburgh is Pittsburgh. Maybe it's my age, but that means something different to me than it apparently does to others.
The Flyers are much less frightening now that Giroux has come crashing down to Earth. Briere and Bryzgalov are old and on horrible contracts, and that defense is 'Canes quality. Bottom 5 in the League. They sure could use Pitkanen.
The Devils are an unstoppable machine, greater than the sum of its parts. But losing Brodeur is huge, and they have no one to replace him.
Pittsburgh is Pittsburgh.
Rangers are collapsing....they are currently a 6th-8th seed that overachieved last year. Nash, Gaborik and Richards are all on albatross contracts (surprise surprise).
Islanders suck.
Columbus scares me, because they play that gritty style and try to physically impose their will. They're going to get a ton of talent in this draft (3 top ten picks WTF???).
Washington doesn't scare me in the slightest.
Still not the end of the world. We have a core of young players (Faulk, Skinner, J. Staal, Murphy) that can compete with the young core of any of these teams.
Alright, I get a lot of what you're saying, but do you really think Philly is going to sit back and watch the team be this bad for a while? They've made the playoffs something like 43 out of the 47 years they've been in existence. I don't see that trend changing anytime soon. Yes, they are struggling now, but they have historically known how to spend money well.
The Rangers... Yeah, I could see them falling back to their early 2000s days with Richter in net and albatross contracts everywhere. Might actually help us land Marc Staal if he isn't overly keen on playing both Eric and Jordan 15 times a season in divisional regular and postseason play.
The Penguins are going nowhere... at least until Crosby and Malkin retire.
The Devils look like a strong team, and I don't think that will change even when Brodeur retires. They play good team defense, so it will be easy on any goalie to come in there.
And of course, you listed how Columbus is all but guaranteed to load up this year. Assuming their GM doesn't clean house again, they'll be a very tough team to beat.
So yeah, we go from a division of having to beat out Florida, Washington, Tampa, and Winnipeg to make the playoffs, to having to put yourself in the Top 3 of the Pens, Flyers, Rangers, Devils, Caps, Islanders, and Jackets just to make the playoffs. Brutal, and a crushing blow to the franchise.
No I know what you mean by that Tarheel. Not to offend anyone but they've been a joke organization just as much as they've been a contender. But with that said, in the current context, it means they have two borderline generational caliber players locked up long term in Crosby and Malkin, and they draft very well. As long as those two players are there they're going to be competitive.
So yeah, we go from a division of having to beat out Florida, Washington, Tampa, and Winnipeg to make the playoffs, to having to put yourself in the Top 3 of the Pens, Flyers, Rangers, Devils, Caps, Islanders, and Jackets just to make the playoffs. Brutal, and a crushing blow to the franchise.
Caps are free falling (no matter what Brouwer what might think), Rangers are declining with only Chris "30 goal sure fire bet (2 points in 17 games LOL)" Kreider to save them, Devils are declining with only Henrique and Larsson, Islanders suck and it the possibility of Tavares wanting out grows with each passing loss. Penguins are the Penguins, but with Crosby and Malkin injury riddled, how long will they last as the undisputed top 2 in the League?
The only team that can match our young core is Philly. Everyone is either good now or banking on prospects.
Ladies, ladies, ladies....are you kidding me?!!!? This is hockey so man up. If you're scared to play any team in the league, if you don't believe that you can beat any team in the league, then you will never be a champion.
All franchises have their ups and downs. Those vacillations are more contingent on the quality of the scouting than the amount of money spent. We all remember teams that have spent extravagantly and sucked (Rangers table for one).
I, for one, subscribe to the Ric Flair school of competition. And I quote, "...if you want to be the man, then you have to beat the man".
The rest of you girls are entitled to your opinions....make-up and panty hose are on aisle 5.
Darren Dreger @DarrenDreger
Expect push-back from a number of NHL teams over the Wildcard playoff proposal. Still fresh, but, some Southeast Div teams are opposed.
Darren Dreger @DarrenDreger
Expect push-back from a number of NHL teams over the Wildcard playoff proposal. Still fresh, but, some Southeast Div teams are opposed.
I'd expect the two Florida teams to be pissed, the teams that Detroit is leaving to be pissed, and maybe even a couple Canadian teams to be pissed.
If in fact those teams coming in more often will make the Canes more money, and in turn, THEY ACTUALLY SPENT TO THE CAP, I'd be fine with it. With good management, they will be contenders. Instead of now, where it takes a minor miracle for them to be contenders at 15 mil below the cap.
If in fact those teams coming in more often will make the Canes more money, and in turn, THEY ACTUALLY SPENT TO THE CAP, I'd be fine with it. With good management, they will be contenders. Instead of now, where it takes a minor miracle for them to be contenders at 15 mil below the cap.
The Wild Card will be pooled against all teams. The teams with the best 4 records outside of the Top 3 in every division will get invited to the playoffs. Everyone else is SOL. The wild-card teams will be slotted as the 4 seeds in every division.
So yes, if the Canes don't finish Top 3 in this new beast of a division, they'll have to have one of the 4 best records in the entire league for teams not finishing top 3 in order to get an invite.
This also means that if the East whips the West every year, you could see 10 Eastern playoff teams vs 6 in the West. This also means that if the Atlantic beats itself up every year, there's a good chance it will only be sending 3 teams from here to eternity.
Wild fan here. Please forgive me for visiting your board. Does anyone here read the BOH forum? Specifically the realignment thread there?
I will give a quick update, and then I have a question.
Update: Apparently the PA is pushing for more equitable playoffs. Obviously, what was proposed, with Det and Cmb both going to the East, leaves a 7/7/8/8 configuration. If they do a 2-conference/4-division arrangement, with all the ETZ teams grouped together for playoff purposes some way, it isn't fair for 8/14 to make it in the west, and 8/16 in the east. So, the PA wants a 15/15.
And, now my question. Please forgive this if it is really stupid. Suppose neither Det nor Cmb moves to the west.
How would Carolina fans feel about being in a division with Winnipeg, Minnesota, Chicago, St Louis, Nashville and Dallas? These are all Central Time Zone teams. The playing matrix would be that you play everyone in the League home/home and the rest of the games in your division. So, the Hurricanes would not play in the MTZ or PTZ any more than now.
Thanks for considering. I know it's an off the wall question, but I am curious at your responses.
I think avoiding that set up would be the hill that Peter Karmanos died on.
Between the travel, the time zone difference and losing half the matchups against Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, New York, Washington, etc., Carolina would probably go ballistic at something like that.
It would be really fun to be in a division with those teams, though!
How would Carolina fans feel about being in a division with Winnipeg, Minnesota, Chicago, St Louis, Nashville and Dallas? These are all Central Time Zone teams.
Our ownership group would HATE it. Our area is composed of A LOT of northeast transplants... folks from Pennsylvania, New York, New Jersey, and New England. Our biggest crowd draws are when we play the Penguins, Flyers, Rangers, Sabres, Bruins, and Devils.
Our gate revenue would be severely negatively impacted with teams like Minnesota, St. Louis, and Dallas.
We need Sids, Malkins, Ovechkins, Charas, and Brodeurs to keep the fans coming. Sucks, but its true.
No offense to those teams, but I would consider that alignment a total non-starter. We would be a sore thumb in that division and none of the teams would have any history with us whatsoever.
What about: MONT, BOS, TOR, BUFF, OTT, CMB, CAR + QUE??
Thanks again.
That'd be a little better to swallow... I think from a tickets standpoint we'd like Pittsburgh in there, plus the rivalries we've already forged with NJ and Washington would be gone, but it's better than all Central teams...
