Trade Rumors and Free Agent TalkTrade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.
WORST
Geoff Courtnall, Cliff Ronning, Sergio Momesso and Robert Dirk for Dan Quinn and Garth Butcher. At the 91 deadline and completely destroyed that amazing year. Just a horrendously brutal trade.
Runner up
The Pronger trade (mandated by a POS owner on his way out the door giving a finger to the fans)
Trading away Gilmour over a made-up and recanted babysitter allegation.
God looking at those two bad trades makes me cringe. I was only a year or so old when the Butcher trade went down, so i can't really comment on it. The Pronger trade was just...well words can't describe it. I mean we literally got nothing out of that trade. Except for the fact that we got EJ and turned him into Shatty and Stewart. I still think that trade is going to go down as one of the best trades in team history.
So in a "best of all time" thread, in regards to an O6 team that has been around for like 80 years, your best and worst and both runners up are trades that took place within the past 5 years or so? Jesus, this place needs to stop letting teenagers post.
They're called opinions. This place needs to stop letting jackasses post.
The best is indisputable, but I think the worst is the Ehrhoff deal. Gave him away for pretty much nothing, and we could have really used his skillset during those back-to-back WCF appearances (Not to mention we wouldn't have had to trade for guys like Wallin and Huskins).
In fairness, the trade was to free up cap room (luko $2M, Error $3M) to sign Blake ($5M) for that WCF run. For that year, Blake was still a far superior player.
Had the Sharks had Error/Luko instead of Blake, they maybe don't make the WCF.
The worst Leafs trade ever was the first round pick to New Jersey for Tom Kurvers. That pick wound up being Niedermayer. The Leafs acquired depth from Quebec just so that they wouldn't finish last and give New Jersey the top pick in Eric Lindros. The possibilities that could have transpired if TML hadn't traded for Kurvers is astounding.
And since it most likely falls under the radar, I'd like to honourably mention what a horrible trade it was shipping Modin to Tampa Bay for Corey "Softest big man in history" Cross.
Best trade ever?
Leafs acquiring Gilmour, Macoun, Nattress, Manderville, and Wamsley from Calgary for Leeman, Godynyuk, Reese, Petit, and Berube.
Gary Leeman did next to nothing in Calgary before leaving, and Doug Gilmour was Doug Gilmour.
Interesting. You say that Kessel couldn't help us win anything - yet he has been a huge part of our success (good offensive) even in our bad years and has been a dynamic playmaker throughout his years in Toronto. Even this year without him scoring a ton of goals, he has been excellent for us. Not to mention he is one of the most prolific goal scorers in the last 4 years in the NHL.
Then you say we would have been better not doing that as we "lost" the trade regarding the players that boston picked (ignoring AGAIN AS WE HAVE TO EVERY TIME that it was NOT THESE PLAYERS we traded for kessel, it was unknown draft picks), what has really held Toronto back is not having a #1 goalie and a franchise shut-down defenseman - none of which were part of this trade. Dougie Hamilton MIGHT be this one day, but at times he has been downright awful this year. Seguin is a good player but still not at Kessel's level and who knows where he will go.
The Rask for Raycroft trade is FAR WORSE than Kessel trade AINEFC, as Raycroft was HORRID and Rask has looked awesome. In the Kessel trade we got a FRANCHISE WINGER, who scores 30 goals per season. It amazes me how CLUELESS people are when it comes to this trade and rating it's merit. Would I undo it? Maybe. Did I agree with it at the time? Hell no. Is it the worst in our history or even in the same stratosphere? Not even close, no matter how much you want it to be or however many quotes YOU use.
He really hasn't. Exceeding every realistic fans expectations so far, nice try though.
BEST - Brewer, Lynch, Woywitka for Pronger
WORST - Might be a surprise but.. Stoll and Greene for Visnovsky
Stoll and Greene are what we've been missing since we traded them. Visnovsky only played 2 seasons here.
HM: Smyth to NYI for Nilsson, O'Marra, 1st (Plante)
Say what? The Gretzky and Messier trades were WAY worse from a fans perspective, though it should be mentioned from an owners perspective it was quite lucrative (15 mil in the Gretzky trade, couldn't find a figure for the Messier deal but IIRC there was cash involved).
So if we're to overlook those two deals due to the owner getting what he wanted, I'm going to say dealing Doug Weight for Reasoner and Hecht (Riesen for Horacek is a wash) Is the worst Oiler deal. Absolutely brutal to get that type of return when a few weeks earlier Yashin landed the 2nd overall pick (Spezza) along with Chara and Muckalt.
Pronger deal was definitely the best, with HM to Slats wheeling an uninspired Jimmy Carson for Graves, Murphy and Klima.
1) Ulf Samuelsson & Luc Robitaille for Petr Nedved & Sergei Zubov
2) McSorley, Jari Kurri, and Shane Churla for Ray Ferraro, Mattias Norstrom, Ian Laperriere, and Nathan Lafayette.
I have to laugh when I read this.
Applying this logic it would be a great deal to trade Duchene, Landeskog, O'Reilly, Johnson, Varlamov and our next five 1st round picks for Claude Giroux.
I mean.. Giroux is the best player in the deal as it stands right now.
Obviously a hyperbole but I think it underlines my statement.
Also need to take into account that the Leafs were not contending or going to contend soon from the point when the trade was done. Leafs would look so much better right now (in terms of "rebuilding" and looking forward) if that trade was undone and Kessel could not help them win anything in the meantime as well.
Don't know if it really was/is one of the worst trades all time but it's a clear loss no matter what kind of quotes you use to defend it.
Apples and oranges. Really.
Listing young players who are already established as future stars to illustrate that the Leafs gave too much for Phil Kessel is not relevant to the trade that Toronto made. Had Brian Burke known that both 1sts would be top 10 picks I'm sure the deal would have been reconsidered, but hindsight is 20/20 isn't it?
As it was the trade was made with Leafs brass likely figuring on both picks being in the 10-20 range, had they been correct it would have been a steal for the Leafs. Sometime when you gamble, you lose, but that doesn't change the fact that the Leafs did NOT trade Seguin, Hamilton, and Knight for Phil Kessel.
I also think it's unfair for you to include that small blurb about the deal being counter-productive to the Leafs rebuilding efforts. Kessel was what, all of 21 years old when the Leafs aquired him? Having already scored 50+ nhl goals including 36 in one season, I would say that Kessel was exactly the player that a rebuilding team trades for when the opportunity presents itself.
Dave Semenko to Edmonton for a 2nd and a 3rd in 1979. We took Neal Broten with the 2nd.
Jari Gronstrand and Paul Boutilier to NYR for Dave Gagner
Brian Lawton, Igor Liba and the rights to Eric Bennett to NYR for Mark Tinordi and some junk
Shane Churla (God bless ya Shane. Hated to see ya go) and Doug Zmolek to L.A. for Darryl Sydor
Kevin Hatcher to Pittsburgh for Sergei Zubov
Bob Errey and Todd Harvey to NYR for Mike Keane and Brian Skrudland
Janne Niinimaa to Montreal for Mike Ribeiro
Worst
James Neal and Matt Niskanen to Pittsburgh for Alex Goligoski
Joe Nieuwendyk and Jamie Langenbrunner to New Jersey for Jason Arnott and Randy Mckay
Ulf Dahlen for Doug Zmolek and Mike Lalor -
Done out of necessity. Mark Tinordi goes down late in the season and Gainey needed help on defense. It sucks that Dahlen was the sacrificial lamb.
A 1st for Ladislav Nagy. Waste of a pick.
Probably put this in the Best column, but we gave up a ton. I'll put it in the Win-Win column.
Jarome Iginla and Corey Millen to Calgary for Joe Nieuwendyk
Say what? The Gretzky and Messier trades were WAY worse from a fans perspective, though it should be mentioned from an owners perspective it was quite lucrative (15 mil in the Gretzky trade, couldn't find a figure for the Messier deal but IIRC there was cash involved).
So if we're to overlook those two deals due to the owner getting what he wanted, I'm going to say dealing Doug Weight for Reasoner and Hecht (Riesen for Horacek is a wash) Is the worst Oiler deal. Absolutely brutal to get that type of return when a few weeks earlier Yashin landed the 2nd overall pick (Spezza) along with Chara and Muckalt.
Pronger deal was definitely the best, with HM to Slats wheeling an uninspired Jimmy Carson for Graves, Murphy and Klima.
The worst for the Oilers is easily the Gretzky trade. No doubt about it, worst trade in NHL history.
The best, a lot of guys say Pronger, but there are some from way back in the day that I think were better.
Getting Dave Manson and Kirk Maltby for old Steve Smith. Manson was our best d-man for his entire stint on the Oilers, and we gave up an aging defensive d-man who was past his prime to get him.
Doug Weight for Esa Tikkanen. Tikkanen only had a couple of decent years left in him, Weight became a superstar in Edmonton, getting 100 points in a season and leading us in pretty much every offensive stat in the 90's.
Tommy Salo for Mats Lindgren. Lindgren was hardly an NHL'er, Salo became our all time shut outs leader.
Jason Smith for a couple of picks. He became our captain and one of the best shut down d-men in the league for a while.
Looking back, we've lost more trades than we've won. Some badly. Messier for Bernie Nicholls and junk, Fuhr and Anderson and junk for Damphousse and Luke Richardson and junk, Weight for Hecht and Reasoner and junk,
Best: Toronto Maple Leafs traded Craig Berube, Alexander Godynyuk, Gary Leeman, Michel Petit and Jeff Reese to the Calgary Flames for Doug Gilmour, Jamie Macoun, Ric Nattress, Rick Wamsley and Kent Manderville
Devils also gave up their 1st rounder in 2002 in that trade though.
Yeah, I was gonna include that. The pick ended up going to Buffalo in the end and they grabbed Dan Paille. Getting that pick in return may make it look a little better, but at the end of the day it equated to nothing for us so I didn't include it.
It could be worse. As a Flames fan, I've lost track of how many future HALL OF FAME players we've at some point traded away in their PRIME.
Brett Hull
Doug Gilmour
Joe Nieuwendyk
Al MacInnis
Mike Vernon
Theo Fleury
Martin St. Louis
Plus:
Jarome Iginla?
Miikka Kiprusoff?
To be fair, many of those players were let go because the team was unable to pay them what they were worth due to a weak Canadian dollar. If Iginla weren't as classy as he is, taking pay cuts to stay in Calgary during the dark years, we'd probably be looking at his name on the same list.
The worst Leafs trade ever was the first round pick to New Jersey for Tom Kurvers. That pick wound up being Niedermayer. The Leafs acquired depth from Quebec just so that they wouldn't finish last and give New Jersey the top pick in Eric Lindros. The possibilities that could have transpired if TML hadn't traded for Kurvers is astounding..............
Everyone keeps saying Kurvers for Nidermayer......not too many people realize it was Kurvers + prospects for Lindros + veterans.
Toronto got Michel Petit, Lucien DeBlois, Aaron Broten and sent Quebec Scott Pearson, 1991 second round pick, 1992 second round pick......just to get a couple of points......Toronto finished 2nd last to Quebec that year.
I really don't want to go through the Thrashers trades to find the worst. The best, albeit fairly minor compared to most in here, would probably be getting Wheeler and Stuart for Peverly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by masterson
So in a "best of all time" thread, in regards to an O6 team that has been around for like 80 years, your best and worst and both runners up are trades that took place within the past 5 years or so? Jesus, this place needs to stop letting teenagers post.
Are you over 90 years old? Who cares about trades 80 years ago? I think ~20-30 years or so is a decent timeframe for a discussion like this despite the title, otherwise most posters don't know/care about the players involved. Give him a break or at least post something more useful than just attacking another poster.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SchennSational1022
LOL!!!!! Wow!!!! I never thought of it that way!!!
No.. this is a beaten argument. Any smart flyer fan will do those trades every time. We're clearly a better team with the pieces we received. Just because you guys won the cup, which we didn't even trade you Carter, doesn't mean it's a loss for us. I'm ecstatic about Schenn as you can tell, Simmonds has outscored Richie since the trade (that's not the whole picture obviously), add in Grossmann is our best defensive defensemen and you can see why I'm happy with this deal.
The Carter and Columbus I don't think I need to explain.... Whether we kept Richie and Carter or not it still has no impact on our defensive needs.
We traded:
Richards, Carter and some no name prospect in the Richards trade
for
Voracek, Schenn, Simmonds, 1st(Couturier), 3rd(Nick Cousins, leading OHL scorer), another 3rd that we traded to get Nick Grossmann. Yeah..we really messed up . That's GREAT value..
Agreed. As a neutral observer, Philly made out like bandits in those trades. Just because you can argue that LA did well also (entirely at Columbus' expense) doesn't negate the Flyers gains. They traded two key pieces at the height of their value to set themselves up for the next decade. Voracek and Simmonds, aside from the other pieces, are already outproducing Richards and Carter. Philadelphia wouldn't have won the cup instead with them last year so that's a terrible argument against it.
