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Old
03-07-2013, 04:20 PM
  #326
hockeyball
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Originally Posted by Mafoofoo View Post
Because everyone wants him to retire a Shark for the novelty and hates good players.
That's a pretty rude thing to say. A lot of us have spent a fair amount of time and thought discussing this and putting out a lot of valid points. When you guys refuse to read any of that and then just bundle us all together like you just did it's really irritating.

I don't give a crap if Marleau retires a Shark. it's meaningless.

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03-07-2013, 04:24 PM
  #327
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I have and it's basically "Oh Marleau is an awesome player who's way better for the team but he's not putting up points but that's ok. Thornton on the other hand sucks so much because all he does is pass and everyone knows it but somehow he's still scoring. So we should trade the guy who's producing".


You trade Thornton and then you're stuck with a 40-50 point winger in Marleau.

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03-07-2013, 04:26 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by Mafoofoo View Post
I have and it's basically "Oh Marleau is an awesome player who's way better for the team but he's not putting up points but that's ok. Thornton on the other hand sucks so much because all he does is pass and everyone knows it but somehow he's still scoring. So we should trade the guy who's producing".


You trade Thornton and then you're stuck with a 40-50 point winger in Marleau.
That actually not at all what i've been saying, not even remotely. Feel free to quote away because I'm pretty positive I have never made any one of those arguments.

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Old
03-07-2013, 06:01 PM
  #329
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Sell at the deadline and the three people that should be traded are.

Havlat

Clowe

Murray

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Old
03-07-2013, 06:21 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by sjshark91 View Post
Sell at the deadline and the three people that should be traded are.

Havlat

Clowe

Murray
Havlat has a NTC, if he is willing to wave it I am with you. We should only give up Clowe if the return is good. Otherwise I am content with signing him in the off-season at a cheaper contract (in a different role if he doesn't pick his play up).

I think the Sharks will be fine in the coming years. When Couture demands a raise, Thornton and Marleau's contracts expire, and we can cut their contracts to afford Couture in his prime. Add in Pavelski to that mix, and we are still solid. By that time, Demers and/or Braun and Irwin should be ready to replace the aging Dan Boyle. Though history says DW is bad with the bottom six, that is a better problem to have then top-6 or defense. We can always trade for upgrades. A few years down the line we should have some better prospects coming up through our system unless we trade them away for rentals like DW is notorious for.

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03-07-2013, 06:33 PM
  #331
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Don't trade Joe, he with 2 scrubs is formidable 2nd line--Or an amazing 3rd line when JT gets older. Get Clowe out of the top six or trade him and unfortunately, I think Pavs is the man out... cause with JT and Couture, 2 is about the most "slow" top six players you can have in todays NHL.
This has a ton of merit. If we could get a Kessel like return for Pavs before this draft, well OK, a top ten pick and a speedy winger prospect, we should do that. Keep Couture, Thornton and eventually Hertl down the middle. (all only avg skaters). Fill the wings with speed. (We have Marleau and Havlat for now) Foundationally, this would be an awesome start to any rebuild.

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Old
03-07-2013, 06:35 PM
  #332
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Originally Posted by Nolan11 View Post
This has a ton of merit. If we could get a Kessel like return for Pavs before this draft, well OK, a top ten pick and a speedy winger prospect, we should do that. Keep Couture, Thornton and eventually Hertl down the middle. (all only avg skaters). Fill the wings with speed. (We have Marleau and Havlat for now) Foundationally, this would be an awesome start to any rebuild.
I see Havlat out before Pavs. Havlat makes me miss Heatley (didn't know that was possible!)...

... Setoguchi has double the amount of Havlat's points, actually plays fast, will hit, is a right-handed shot that could fit in next to JT, and is much cheaper than Havlat... and he's been subjected to the same "line juggling" that Havlat has... to the extent that he's even been on the 4th line.

Not saying Seto is great, but at this point, Havlat seems like the odd man out. He isn't even that fast... which was supposed to be what we were getting.

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Old
03-07-2013, 06:38 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by BrianSmith View Post
I see Havlat out before Pavs. Havlat makes me miss Heatley (didn't know that was possible!)...

... Setoguchi has double the amount of Havlat's points, actually plays fast, will hit, is a right-handed shot that could fit in next to JT, and is much cheaper than Havlat... and he's been subjected to the same "line juggling" that Havlat has... to the extent that he's even been on the 4th line.

Not saying Seto is great, but at this point, Havlat seems like the odd man out. He isn't even that fast... which was supposed to be what we were getting.
You think you miss Heatley and Setoguchi, but that's because you haven't watched the Wild these days. Heatley has spent significant time on the 4th line too, he's a terribad possession player. All the points he's gotten were the result of Parise and Koivu. Setoguchi has been a healthy scratch, and he has severe attitude issues.

It bombs that both Burns and Havlat are on the shelf, but neither Heatley nor Seto are exactly the picture of durability. You do both of those trades 10/10 and don't look back.

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Old
03-07-2013, 07:27 PM
  #334
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Havlat was the worst trade Doug has pulled. He's signed forever and at 5million he should be paid less than Gomez.

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03-07-2013, 07:28 PM
  #335
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Originally Posted by sjshark91 View Post
Havlat was the worst trade Doug has pulled. He's signed forever and at 5million he should be paid less than Gomez.
Yeah, Heatley at $7.5M is so much better.

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03-07-2013, 07:34 PM
  #336
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Yeah, Heatley at $7.5M is so much better.
Because we had to trade for Havlat. No one else could have been acquired for Heatley.

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03-07-2013, 07:38 PM
  #337
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Originally Posted by sjshark91 View Post
Havlat was the worst trade Doug has pulled. He's signed forever and at 5million he should be paid less than Gomez.
Honestly, I spend a lot of time reading the Wild boards and they are pretty down on Heatley and Seto as well. Seto has been heating up lately and has 5 goals on the year, but even then, Seto is one of their whipping boys.

I thought having Mitchell with him would rejuvenate him, but I guess its taking some time for that to happen. Their fans are experiencing the same frustrations with Heatley that we did after a great 1st year after the trade. Slow and lazy.

I think we did better on the Havlat deal just strictly because of the cap savings. Jury is still out on the Burns deal because it really depends on how Coyle and Philips (?) do. I would be willing to bring Seto back. I think he'd come back with a lot of fire.

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Old
03-07-2013, 07:40 PM
  #338
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Originally Posted by sjshark91 View Post
Because we had to trade for Havlat. No one else could have been acquired for Heatley.
That's absolutely horrible logic. You can't judge a trade by saying "He could have gotten someone else!" because you don't know who was available and you don't know what teams were on Heatley's list. All you can do is compare what you gave up to what you got back. Havlat >>>>>>> Heatley.


Last edited by WTFetus: 03-07-2013 at 08:17 PM.
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Old
03-07-2013, 07:42 PM
  #339
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Wild speculation here .. but is it possible that Jumbo feels that the window for the SC is closed in SJ and he is just not giving a crap anymore. Possibly forcing DW to trade him?

I would be surprised if this were true but lets be honest he knows as well as anyone else .. whatever is going on in SJ just isnt working.
I doubt it. He's made San Jose is home, as has is wife and daughter. He doesn't strike me as the passive aggressive type. If he wanted out, he would quietly tell DW that. Not to mention, playing like crap doesn't exactly make you desirable for other teams.

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03-07-2013, 07:49 PM
  #340
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I'm far from a DW fan, but Havlat/Heatley was a win for us at the time. I even remember neutral fans coming into our trade thread and saying we got the better player.

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Old
03-07-2013, 07:50 PM
  #341
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The only redeeming qualities of Heatley are/were:
A) He's the ****ing All Star

B) He wasn't a china doll like Havlat, and he really gutted it out through injuries (Vancouver series I see you)

C) He really drew a ton of attention freeing up Couture when they were line mates

D) He's the ****ing All Star

That's about it really

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03-07-2013, 07:51 PM
  #342
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That's absolutely horrible logic. No offense, but it's just terribly stupid. You can't judge a trade by saying "He could have gotten someone else!" because you don't know who was available and you don't know what teams were on Heatley's list. All you can do is compare what you gave up to what you got back. Havlat >>>>>>> Heatley.
8 goals >>>>>>>> 3 goals.

And that's the bottom line.

Also the 2.5m we saved in cap space was wasted on useless players like Galiardi and Burish.

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03-07-2013, 07:52 PM
  #343
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TSN's Insider Trading coming up in Tor\Bos 1st int. Bruins closing in on adding a top 9 forward. Full details coming up. #tradecentre

Please say Clowe.

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03-07-2013, 07:57 PM
  #344
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Originally Posted by Iron Chef View Post
TSN's Insider Trading coming up in Tor\Bos 1st int. Bruins closing in on adding a top 9 forward. Full details coming up. #tradecentre

Please say Clowe.
Maybe. Somehow I doubt it though. Who we we want from Boston though for clowe if it were him?

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03-07-2013, 07:59 PM
  #345
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Originally Posted by sjshark91 View Post
Because we had to trade for Havlat. No one else could have been acquired for Heatley.
But actually, most of us were surprised that someone would give up a top-6 player for Heatley. He was pretty much a cap dump. Minnesota's the only team dumb enough to give up a good player for him.

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03-07-2013, 08:02 PM
  #346
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Maybe. Somehow I doubt it though. Who we we want from Boston though for clowe if it were him?
And it says top-9. If that's Clowe the it is going to be a poor return.

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03-07-2013, 08:02 PM
  #347
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And it says top-9. If that's Clowe the it is going to be a poor return.
Breaking news, they're signing Carl Soderberg.

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03-07-2013, 08:08 PM
  #348
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But actually, most of us were surprised that someone would give up a top-6 player for Heatley. He was pretty much a cap dump. Minnesota's the only team dumb enough to give up a good player for him.
Really? Dany Heatley can't get a top 6 forward in return, but Clowe this year gets a 1st round pick and prospect.

Makes no sense.

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03-07-2013, 08:22 PM
  #349
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B) He wasn't a china doll like Havlat, and he really gutted it out through injuries (Vancouver series I see you)
There is no question that Heatley is a warrior. But I have to say, if I had a choice between Havlat and Heatley's injuries, I'd still choose Havlat. Havlat was super injured in the regular season, but after he got healthy, he was great in the playoffs. Every year for Heatley, it was a bunch of minor injuries in the regular season that weren't enough to keep him out of the line-up, and come the post-season, those injuries would add-up and he'd be super, super injured.

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03-07-2013, 08:24 PM
  #350
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Really? Dany Heatley can't get a top 6 forward in return, but Clowe this year gets a 1st round pick and prospect.

Makes no sense.
Heatley's about as good as Clowe is right now, and he was signed for three more years at $7.5M. I'm surprised he had value at all.

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