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Old
03-08-2013, 12:19 PM
  #401
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
I was actually toying around with the idea of bringing Ian White (not Colin!) back assuming Burns is not going to get Healthy. Detroit basically wants to get rid of him, we could probably get him for Murray or a late pick at this point and he'd very likely re-sign here if we asked. Would also free us up to trade Braun for a forward. I know it seems counter to pickup a defensemen, but White was a great puck mover for us on the 2nd pairing.

No way would I ever trade away braun to trade for and then sign ian white. If you trade for him it's just to end this season and let him go since burns will be back 100% either later this season or next. Ian white is just not an organizational need beyond filling in this season. Even that's heavily debatable since our issue isn't defense, it's scoring forwards. We already have the players we need to move to add someone if we want. No need to add a player who can't even stay in the lineup over in detroit.


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03-08-2013, 12:24 PM
  #402
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
I was actually toying around with the idea of bringing Ian White (not Colin!) back assuming Burns is not going to get Healthy. Detroit basically wants to get rid of him, we could probably get him for Murray or a late pick at this point and he'd very likely re-sign here if we asked. Would also free us up to trade Braun for a forward. I know it seems counter to pickup a defensemen, but White was a great puck mover for us on the 2nd pairing.
I guess I wouldn't be against getting Ian White back, but it really does depend what the Sharks are giving up. Murray and a late pick isn't going to cut it. One of the reasons they are shopping White is because they have too many D. They don't want more. I think they are looking for at least a 3rd, probably a 2nd. At that point, I probably wouldn't do it.
I do get that we'd probably have to trade Demers/Braun if we ever want that good 3rd liner, but it'd be a hard pill to swallow. Both are good defensemen on great contracts.

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03-08-2013, 12:28 PM
  #403
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Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
I guess I wouldn't be against getting Ian White back, but it really does depend what the Sharks are giving up. Murray and a late pick isn't going to cut it. One of the reasons they are shopping White is because they have too many D. They don't want more. I think they are looking for at least a 3rd, probably a 2nd. At that point, I probably wouldn't do it.
I do get that we'd probably have to trade Demers/Braun if we ever want that good 3rd liner, but it'd be a hard pill to swallow. Both are good defensemen on great contracts.
I wouldn't give up more than a 4th for white. The sharks simply can't afford to. They need their picks moving forward and white doesn't solve a long term need and definitely isn't the player that puts them over the top in the playoffs.

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03-08-2013, 12:31 PM
  #404
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Also, I bet Holland would rather give White away to an Eastern Conference bottom-dweller than trade him to SJ for even a 2nd-rounder...

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03-08-2013, 01:46 PM
  #405
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One of the reasons they are shopping White is because they have too many D. They don't want more.
The problem is that they found out they had too many D because White played his way into the press box. Babcock scratched him and then was happy with the results on the ice, leaving White the odd man out. Who knows if it's a Ryane Clowe situation with White??

Personally, I wouldn't want to take the chance in a trade...

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03-08-2013, 02:15 PM
  #406
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Don't want White. He'd be just another guy blocking Demers/Braun/Irwin from getting ice time.

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03-08-2013, 02:23 PM
  #407
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Originally Posted by magic school bus View Post
Don't want White. He'd be just another guy blocking Demers/Braun/Irwin from getting ice time.
Kind of ignoring the premise I set of specifically doing so to trade Murray+Braun+Clowe for forward help... Leaving us with only blocking Irwin, which is appropriate given his experience.

We are having a lot of trouble moving the puck from the back end when Boyle is not on the ice. Yes it is a system problem too but White was very good for us in exactly that regard within our system.

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03-08-2013, 02:29 PM
  #408
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Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
Also, I bet Holland would rather give White away to an Eastern Conference bottom-dweller than trade him to SJ for even a 2nd-rounder...
Considering the realignment got approved by the PA, Sharks and Detroit might not be in the same conference next season. So maybe we can do business together now

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03-08-2013, 02:36 PM
  #409
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Don't want White. He'd be just another guy blocking Demers/Braun/Irwin from getting ice time.
If Demers/Braun/Irwin want ice time over White, play better.

Seriously. Winning organizations rarely hand out responsibilities based on potential. Hold your prospects to a higher standard is, IMO, the best way to get your prospect to reach that potential, or reveal that he never really had it in the first place.

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03-08-2013, 02:53 PM
  #410
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Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
If Demers/Braun/Irwin want ice time over White, play better.

Seriously. Winning organizations rarely hand out responsibilities based on potential. Hold your prospects to a higher standard is, IMO, the best way to get your prospect to reach that potential, or reveal that he never really had it in the first place.


The problem is that Demers and Braun get benched even when they ARE playing better than their competition. If White were brought in he would likely end up being another Wallin/C. White/Murray and remain in the lineup regardless of how poorly he was playing. At this point I don't think it helps the team or the development of Demers/Braun to have them shuffled in and out of the lineup.

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03-08-2013, 03:25 PM
  #411
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Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
If Demers/Braun/Irwin want ice time over White, play better.
Am I missing something here?? White played poorly, got scratched and can't beat out the guys who they brought in to take his spot. Why do we want him here if he can't crack Detroit's top six?

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03-08-2013, 03:30 PM
  #412
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Originally Posted by Tkachuk4MVP View Post
The problem is that Demers and Braun get benched even when they ARE playing better than their competition. If White were brought in he would likely end up being another Wallin/C. White/Murray and remain in the lineup regardless of how poorly he was playing. At this point I don't think it helps the team or the development of Demers/Braun to have them shuffled in and out of the lineup.
This is actually true; we've seen how Tmac handled Wallin and Murray (and Huskins, in a way).

I do think that if White came here, that wouldn't be the case; he'd be like Brad Stuart...playing well enough that he'd deserve his spot.

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03-08-2013, 03:32 PM
  #413
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Originally Posted by LunchPail View Post
Am I missing something here?? White played poorly, got scratched and can't beat out the guys who they brought in to take his spot. Why do we want him here if he can't crack Detroit's top six?
White has always been very system dependent. He plays well when he plays in a system that works for him. He played well in Toronto, terrible in Carolina, great here, spotty in Detroit. He was excellent here, he's only 28, i'm pretty sure he'll bounce back.

My point being, having Burns back would be ideal of course, but having White on the ice right now would probably help the team quite a bit. Having White when Boyle retires would also be nice. I'm not saying White will solve all our problems, but having another guy that can reliably move the puck up the ice and put up points from the back end would help a lot right now. You can never have enough two-way dmen.

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03-08-2013, 05:11 PM
  #414
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Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
I agree. I disagree when you say Pavelski doesn't have a great shot. Pavelski's wrister is great, but I think Couture's is just better.
He's got a good shot, surely a top 6 player shot, but logan has a leading-scorer shot.

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03-08-2013, 10:15 PM
  #415
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Originally Posted by juantimer View Post
He's got a good shot, surely a top 6 player shot, but logan has a leading-scorer shot.
Not being subjective on shots, but Pavs is never going to have a high shot percentage while spending a lot of time on the point on the PP. Point shots even for the best dmen are very low percentage. Subjectively, Pavs is accurate and deceptive; the goalie doesn't read the shot off his stick well. Couture is accurate, but does not always select the best corner to shoot for. I was amazed when Couture pulled the backhand/fivehole in the shootout. He has never varied from this shootout shot which is not very effective against most goalies. A few very large goalies are susceptible to the shot. During play, as opposed to shootout, Couture does pick corners.

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03-08-2013, 11:19 PM
  #416
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
He has never varied from this shootout shot which is not very effective against most goalies. .
He has.



as one example. There are others from last season too. He isn't like Handzus were he only has one move that he tries over and over again. The back-hand fivehole was pretty effective until after the all-star break, so he started to change things up afterwards.

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03-09-2013, 02:12 AM
  #417
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I want mcginn

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Old
03-09-2013, 02:27 AM
  #418
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
Couture is accurate, but does not always select the best corner to shoot for. I was amazed when Couture pulled the backhand/fivehole in the shootout. He has never varied from this shootout shot which is not very effective against most goalies. A few very large goalies are susceptible to the shot. During play, as opposed to shootout, Couture does pick corners.
You might need to go back and watch Coutures shootout moves. He did that same move and scored on his very first NHL shoot out attempt and also did it in the allstar skills competition when he went. He's mixed that shot in regularly throughout his short career. It's the type of shot that you can only do when you know the goalie isn't expecting it because it's too easy to stop if the goalie maintains his proper stick position covering his five hole.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2Gk_bigKZE

This one he didnt have to go 5 hole because Bryz bit so hard on the fake he slid himself completely out of the net. THat's being faked out of your jock..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csXMx944O7A

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03-09-2013, 06:20 AM
  #419
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The thought of not making trades with another division/conference team is just stupid. Not everyones a Wayne Gretzky. If someone has a player that fills a need from another team, it shouldnt matter what division theyre in. In fact, the Sharks and Ducks have made a ton of trades with each other in the past.


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03-09-2013, 12:48 PM
  #420
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No desire at all for Ian White. He's only better than Murray and maybe Irwin, once we get Burns back he would be a consistent healthy scratch.

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03-09-2013, 01:25 PM
  #421
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Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
Handzus has a great wrister too. It's just that he's too slow to ever use it.

I'd say Couture's shot is just as accurate as Pavelski's.
I don't think so. I may easily be wrong, as I haven't tracked shots or anything of the sort. In game, they seem fairly even. Judging by the fact that Pavelski has a good shootout record despite rarely using moves while Couture is at a career 20-something percent last I looked says something special about Pavelski's accuracy. They know it's coming, and it's hard to stop.

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03-09-2013, 01:34 PM
  #422
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No desire at all for Ian White. He's only better than Murray and maybe Irwin, once we get Burns back he would be a consistent healthy scratch.
He'd be our 4th-5th best defenseman right now, unless there's a non-system related reason he's slipped such as an injury. He's better than Braun, Demers, Murray, and Irwin. Last time he was here he was about at Stuart's level.

Again, I'm not a scout, so maybe there's a reason he's slipped and he won't get it back, but I'd definitely buy low on him and trade away Braun (or Demers depending on the return each could garner) and Murray for forward help. If packaging Clowe in there helps, so be it. I'll bet we could get a decent young tweener for Braun.

White would also help in the post-Boyle era and we could trade Boyle for young forwards/prospects. Or his contract expires at the end of this year and we can use that money to re-sign some of our players to extensions.

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03-09-2013, 02:02 PM
  #423
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Originally Posted by Bizz06 View Post
The thought of not making trades with another division/conference team is just stupid. Not everyones a Wayne Gretzky. If someone has a player that fills a need from another team, it shouldnt matter what division theyre in. In fact, the Sharks and Ducks have made a ton of trades with each other in the past.
I agree with the within a conference, but not within a divison. A ton of trades? The last significant trade (Huskins/Moen, and draft picks don't count as significant) the Sharks made with a division rival was back in 2001 when they traded for Selanne. You don't see many Top-4 defensemen or Top-6 forwards get traded intra-divison.

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03-09-2013, 02:07 PM
  #424
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He'd be our 4th-5th best defenseman right now, unless there's a non-system related reason he's slipped such as an injury. He's better than Braun, Demers, Murray, and Irwin. Last time he was here he was about at Stuart's level.
I agree. Ian White is easily better than Murray and Irwin, and he's better than Demers and Braun right now. The latter two might have a higher ceiling, but they're still too raw right now. White also has a cannon of a slapshot that could get to the net more times than any other defenseman on the team right now.
FTR, I'm not advocating getting him. I'm just defending him.

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03-09-2013, 03:00 PM
  #425
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I agree. Ian White is easily better than Murray and Irwin, and he's better than Demers and Braun right now. The latter two might have a higher ceiling, but they're still too raw right now. White also has a cannon of a slapshot that could get to the net more times than any other defenseman on the team right now.
FTR, I'm not advocating getting him. I'm just defending him.
I think White would help the transition play (he'd be our second best puckmoving d-man behind Boyle) and from the point on the PP more than people are giving him credit for.

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