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Grass Roots Development (No Wins/Standings)

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02-26-2013, 10:42 AM
  #1
crazycanuck
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Grass Roots Development (No Wins/Standings)

http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/jason_de_vos/?id=416455

Great article on the fall backs of the grass roots programs in soccer, which can be extended to all team sports (including Hockey).

Honestly I get where he is coming from, a lot of the time coaches have kids play too systematically so that they can win, while not spending enough time on developing skills.

I will say that as an adult, who doesn't play any sort of organized hockey anymore, but goes out and goofs around on the pond and pick up hockey games, this is some of the most fun I've had on the ice. Just trying different moves and not worrying about what will happen if I don't pull the move off.

While I think no scores or standings till age 12 is kinda crazy (totally un-educated opinion right now). I like this idea for the 10 and under age group. You should totally be spending all of the time as a kid 10 and under developing skills, creativity and the love of the game.


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02-26-2013, 02:38 PM
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It won't work. I'm not saying don't do it but the idea that this is some radical thought or will change how development in Canadian soccer works, it's not gonna happen.

In theory it sounds dandy, but what happens is half the parents will show up with their precious-snowflake single child, decide it's a "fun league", equivalent to a fitness class or an organized playground, and do not push the kid to develop. Couple that with coaches, manages, and commisioners who will end up pushing that message to far, and you'll more likely be shunned for trying to develop your kid. It'll become a culture of seeing who can be the most holier-than-though, it's just for fun, why should I care, attitude you will ever see.

I've seen it before, I even had it happen when I was a kid and got put in one of those leagues. It's not even fun.

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02-26-2013, 02:55 PM
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The extremes of both sides are not good.

Coaches who coach to win vs coaching to develop succesfull players create as big a problem as the "Everyone is a winner" "No one can feel bad" parents/coaches.

With the right leadership/coaching both approaches will work but sadly too many people go to the extremes and ruin what can be a very good development model.

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02-26-2013, 04:36 PM
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we coach 5-6 year olds and we dont keep score.....officially. as coaches we do, and we analyze what parts fo the game they got scored against. then in practice we work on individual skills to help them better handle the situation.

ex we noticed the kids in our zone were just firing the puck up the board into a crowd and then getting pinned.

so the next practice we worked on passing to an open player. in reality we would try to get them to d to d pass or ice it. but instead we did a drill where we had one kid in the corner trying to pass to a player on the blue line. then we set up pilons and had 3 kids in teh pilons 1-4' off the boards acting and the "bees" they jsut skated around and made sure no passes could get through. at first we dont let the kid at the blueline move so the pass is a fail everytime. then after each kid got a couple go's being the passer/[passee and bees we let the passee move. it didnt take long for the kids to realize to look for open guys.

in the end the kids started looking for open guys instead of clapping it up the boards which. but we never taught them any kind of system play because in my mind thats wrong. I like to think that other coaches of the same age groups are doing the same things. coaching to win before the kids are playing AA/AAA bantam is meaningless to me. At the same time the kids still need that competitive fire and drive to try when they are competeing, breeding a generation of kids who dont care would be disasterous for the game itself.

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02-26-2013, 04:39 PM
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Jarick
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I agree in principle and don't fully understand it enough to nitpick the article. Generally I like it. I don't know enough about modern youth coaching to know if it's too far one way or another, but I do know that young kids don't get the concept of winning and losing and shouldn't be punished (in whatever manner) for making mistakes.

12 strikes me as late though. Maybe 10 is better? I dunno. Not a psychologist.

But I'd like for my kid to have a mixture of skill development, having fun playing, and building friendships when he plays. We'll see this fall.

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02-26-2013, 04:47 PM
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as a side note our kids have been in several 3 on 3 tourneys which they just love. no score, just kids having a great time, no positions just hockey

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02-26-2013, 04:54 PM
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Jarick
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I forgot this, has any kid's development been ruined by shinny? Doubt it. A lot of old school players cut their teeth playing with friends in their backyard or the ponds, not necessarily at the local indoor rink.

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02-27-2013, 12:19 PM
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younger kids no but i have seen older kids who play significant shinny and the bad habits are hard to break.

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02-27-2013, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazycanuck View Post
http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/jason_de_vos/?id=416455

While I think no scores or standings till age 12 is kinda crazy (totally un-educated opinion right now). I like this idea for the 10 and under age group. You should totally be spending all of the time as a kid 10 and under developing skills, creativity and the love of the game.
One can still develop skills while keeping score and standings. In addition to learning how to play a game, kids also need to learn how to win and to lose (which is a lesson that goes well beyond the rink, field, court, etc). To be given trophies and medals for just participating doesn't teach kids this valuable life lesson.

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02-27-2013, 02:38 PM
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RandV
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This is the first time I've heard of this LTPD thing, so all I can go on is what the article is saying and I can't tell if that's 100% what this LTPD is, but what he seems to be saying that the removal of scores is not so much to make every kid feel special but rather to try to reign in parents who put too much pressure on kids to succeed. Which is kind of sad really, but I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around this because I always thought soccer was pretty tame in this regard, when compared to hockey over here.

But furthermore, it's not so much the removal of scores that's important here as it is getting rid of the standings and things like relegation. That's something that I can more get behind, I have no direct experience with it but it seems like in our youth hockey there is waaay to much emphasis put on throwing young kids through a meat grinder to achieve a spot on that AAA team. Especially in the city, when you're paying for your 13 year old to go through some specialized hard core summer training then spending big money (... I don't know what it is, $5000-$8000 a year?) to play on the top rep time, that just doesn't seem quite right to me. Seems to me like your putting a lot of time money and effort into creating the best child players, when the real determining factor of whether you can approach the pro's or not comes later on in adolescence.

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02-27-2013, 04:56 PM
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Jarick
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I read it to mean that you didn't have coaches trying double and triple shifting certain kids while others sit on the bench and/or teaching 8-year-olds to dump and chase.

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