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09-23-2003, 08:33 AM
  #1
Diesel
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Trade Proposal

Ok folks, I know that most of you would rather keep Havlat and heck, so would I. But if you are forced to trade him (speaking just hypothetically), how does this trade sound?

From Philly:

Justin Williams and Dennis Seidenberg

From Ottawa:

Havlat

I think this is a win/win situation.


You have to take into consideration the fact that, if Havlat is traded, you're not going to get Havlat back. In other words, you're not going to get a player of equal value back. But Justin Williams is a young, talented forward capable of being a top 6, and Dennis Seidenberg has a nice shot and projects to be a good 4th dman. The Flyers have a dirth of D prospects, so they unload one here and improve slightly at the forward position.

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09-23-2003, 08:45 AM
  #2
Other Dave
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You know, that's a pretty sweet deal.

What are the contract lengths like for those two guys? I know Seidenberg makes around 700k, and Williams a little over a mil, right?

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Old
09-23-2003, 08:46 AM
  #3
discostu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel
Ok folks, I know that most of you would rather keep Havlat and heck, so would I. But if you are forced to trade him (speaking just hypothetically), how does this trade sound?

From Philly:

Justin Williams and Dennis Seidenberg

From Ottawa:

Havlat

I think this is a win/win situation.


You have to take into consideration the fact that, if Havlat is traded, you're not going to get Havlat back. In other words, you're not going to get a player of equal value back. But Justin Williams is a young, talented forward capable of being a top 6, and Dennis Seidenberg has a nice shot and projects to be a good 4th dman. The Flyers have a dirth of D prospects, so they unload one here and improve slightly at the forward position.
Assuming that we decide to put Havlat on the block, I would still pass on this deal. Williams has never really excited me at all. Seidenberg is a better prospect than our current guys (Platil, Schubert, etc.) and is pretty close to being an NHL regular right now, but I don't see him being a huge help to us. Our D is pretty young, and the number of guys he has to leap frog on our depth chart to get a permananent spot on our line-up is too much.

If we were to trade Havlat, I would hold out for more than this. I may not expect a Havlat player in return, but I would expect more than Williams. There isn't much more on the Philly roster that would interest me, other than Gagne, who Philly would likely balk at.

On another note, I don't see Havlat being traded over this. I'm just playing along for the purposes of trade talk.

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Old
09-23-2003, 08:54 AM
  #4
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Try Pitkanen, and please don't tell me that pitkanen has more trade value than Havlat. A pitkanen deal doesn't make much sense to the sens, but that's what it would take to get havlat. The sens will make the playoffs with or without havlat, so they are in no rush to sign him.

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Old
09-23-2003, 08:56 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by discostu
There isn't much more on the Philly roster that would interest me, other than Gagne, who Philly would likely balk at.
Still cursing the day when Gauthier took Chouinard ahead of him in the draft..

Havlat will be playing here this season, his bargaining position is not amazingly strong considering the depth on RW.

As far as trading goes, Kim Johnsson is a player I would like to see in a Sens jersey.

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Old
09-23-2003, 09:12 AM
  #6
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Volchenkov, don't stir the pot by bringing up Pitkanen. That kid's will leave Philly when Spets leaves Ottawa. Gimme a break OK?

Why I would do this deal: Williams isn't as strong a player as Havlat, but he's a "Senators-style" player - good hockey sense with speed as his main physical asset. The fact that he's not as good as Marty means we'll likely keep him longer, and he's no slouch talent-wise - he's at least as good as Fisher in that regard (in fact, this proposal had me thinking about a Schaefer-Fisher-Williams third line down the road).

As for Seidenberg, he becomes the Sens' #1 prospect immediately, and makes Hnidy and possibly Leschyshyn expendable (and the fact that I care enough to spell his name correctly should tell you the high regard I have for Curtis). Dennis would give the Sens blueline the optimal 3-up, 3-down configuration, with Rachunek, Volchenkov and Seidenberg as the primary puck-movers and Redden, Phillips and Chara handling the defensive play. The fact that Redden can shoot and Volch hit just adds versatility to an already superlative lineup.

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Old
09-23-2003, 09:20 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Other Dave
Volchenkov, don't stir the pot by bringing up Pitkanen. That kid's will leave Philly when Spets leaves Ottawa. Gimme a break OK?

Why I would do this deal: Williams isn't as strong a player as Havlat, but he's a "Senators-style" player - good hockey sense with speed as his main physical asset. The fact that he's not as good as Marty means we'll likely keep him longer, and he's no slouch talent-wise - he's at least as good as Fisher in that regard (in fact, this proposal had me thinking about a Schaefer-Fisher-Williams third line down the road).

As for Seidenberg, he becomes the Sens' #1 prospect immediately, and makes Hnidy and possibly Leschyshyn expendable (and the fact that I care enough to spell his name correctly should tell you the high regard I have for Curtis). Dennis would give the Sens blueline the optimal 3-up, 3-down configuration, with Rachunek, Volchenkov and Seidenberg as the primary puck-movers and Redden, Phillips and Chara handling the defensive play. The fact that Redden can shoot and Volch hit just adds versatility to an already superlative lineup.

Other Dave
Williams is only a 40 point player now, and IMO we'd be better of playing Vermette. We don't need defense prospects so why trade for seidenberg? Either a top quality prospect or gagne has to come back. Its mostly cause I'm sick and tired of all these Havlat proposals. WE AREN'T TRADING HIM FOR ANYTHING!!!!!!!

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Old
09-23-2003, 10:24 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volchenkov
Williams is only a 40 point player now, and IMO we'd be better of playing Vermette.
24 points in 41 games is within a ****'s hair of 50 points, so Williams is hardly a '40 point player'. He's within 10 points of Havlat's development at that stage. Seidenberg will 'make up' for the difference in offensive output, if any, and it's a cheaper overall option for Ottawa.

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Old
09-23-2003, 11:25 AM
  #9
The Mars Volchenkov
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First off, let me say, I LOVE Justin Williams. I think he's going to be just as good as Simon Gagne some day, and a better overall player to boot. That being said, many people don't value him as high as I do and he wouldn't be able to fetch Havlat with Seidenberg tossed in.

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Old
09-23-2003, 12:45 PM
  #10
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I like Justin Williams but he's not in the same class as Havlat. Throwing in a tiny German defenseman does nothing since we have a 7th defenseman now who's better (Pothier).

I'd only make that trade if Havlat was in the same boat as Lindros or Deadmarsh...one head injury short of retirement. Not an good trade at all.

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Old
09-23-2003, 12:46 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volchenkov
Williams is only a 40 point player now, and IMO we'd be better of playing Vermette.
I think you should have called yourself Vermette instead of Volchenkov :p

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Old
09-24-2003, 10:56 AM
  #12
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@odiedog you have no notion of Seidenberg the only you know is that Seidenberg a German is and you think Germans can't play hockey

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Old
09-24-2003, 11:06 AM
  #13
Volchenkov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fisby
@odiedog you have no notion of Seidenberg the only you know is that Seidenberg a German is and you think Germans can't play hockey
That's why our #1 defenseman in the AHL is German. C'mon, please don't play the race card, its just a little bit rediculous.

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Old
09-24-2003, 11:31 AM
  #14
fisby
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Volchenkov you are rigth, but the kind "tiny German defenseman " as odiedog writes make me not happy.

greeting fisby

by the way observe sharks Ehrhoff

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Old
09-24-2003, 03:42 PM
  #15
o-dog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fisby
Volchenkov you are rigth, but the kind "tiny German defenseman " as odiedog writes make me not happy.

greeting fisby

by the way observe sharks Ehrhoff
Didn't mean any ethnic slur by that comment, sorry if it was taken that way. Funny though...if I would have said Swedish, many would have nodded in agreement because of that silly Don Cherry mentality that pervades hockey.

Either way, Seidenberg is no big bargaining chip in a trade. German, Swiss, or Zimbabwean, he wouldn't even make the Sens D-corp. Won't be making Philly's either this year...

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Old
09-24-2003, 03:45 PM
  #16
Volchenkov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fisby
Volchenkov you are rigth, but the kind "tiny German defenseman " as odiedog writes make me not happy.

greeting fisby

by the way observe sharks Ehrhoff
We can assure you that Ottawans are the least racist of any group of people. As he pointed out, if he had said "tiny Canadian defenseman" you wouldn't have blinked an eye.

Peace.

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Old
09-25-2003, 08:57 AM
  #17
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If I may butt in here...

Seidenberg showed a lot of promise last year. At one point he was playing on Philly's top forward line (though only for a few games). I am not sure if he would crack Ottawa's lineup, considering they have a solid D corps, but I would venture to say he would be a regular on 25 other teams. And remember he is still very young, and if last year was any indication of his future potential, I feel that he could easily, within a year of playing in the NHL, become a solid top 4 Dman. (plus he could provide a PP QB that it seems the Sens are lacking in their system).

Any other opinions

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Old
09-25-2003, 09:15 AM
  #18
SpezNc
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and what about blockbuster deal like this:

Martin Havlat + Radek Bonk + 2nd rounder for Joni Pitkanen + Justin Williams + Todd Fedoruk + 1st rounder

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Old
09-25-2003, 09:36 AM
  #19
officeglen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpezNc
and what about blockbuster deal like this:

Martin Havlat + Radek Bonk + 2nd rounder for Joni Pitkanen + Justin Williams + Todd Fedoruk + 1st rounder
You guys are really worried about the first game of the season, that's the reason for all this Habs attention isn't it?

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Old
09-25-2003, 12:01 PM
  #20
Volchenkov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpezNc
and what about blockbuster deal like this:

Martin Havlat + Radek Bonk + 2nd rounder for Joni Pitkanen + Justin Williams + Todd Fedoruk + 1st rounder
AAARGH!!! Why the ___ would we trad away two of our top 4 forwards for prospects and a 40 point player???????? Stop it already, I'm beginning to think that people really don't think sometimes.

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Old
09-27-2003, 09:07 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fisby
Volchenkov you are rigth, but the kind "tiny German defenseman " as odiedog writes make me not happy.

greeting fisby

by the way observe sharks Ehrhoff

Does that mean that no one ever made fun of Owen Hargreaves starting for Bayern? No one ever said "...just some Canadian"? What I'm saying is that there are stereotypes in every sport. The reality is that people only care if a player is good enough to play.

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