HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk > Polls - (hockey-related only)
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2

Pavel Datysuk: over-rated or under-rated?

View Poll Results: HF ___________.
over-rates Pavel Datysuk 142 45.81%
under-rates Pavel Datsyuk 62 20.00%
is accurate in their views on Pavel Datsyuk 106 34.19%
Voters: 310. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-25-2013, 11:39 PM
  #51
Wingsfan2965*
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 6,610
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goalsfordinner View Post
I was refering to the fact that Crosby still scored 31 points that run. Regardless of his finals (he did have a GW goal). 31 points is a superstar level. Something the greats reach. Where Datsyuk in his first cup run was a passenger.
And here's the point about Abdelkader. Hardly think anybody would consider him to be instrumental in the series, yet he had as many points as Crosby.

So Crosby wasn't all that instrumental. And seeing as how it's the most important series...

Wingsfan2965* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2013, 11:40 PM
  #52
WingedWheel1987
Ken Holland's office
 
WingedWheel1987's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: GPP Michigan
Posts: 8,201
vCash: 500
Wings are a lottery team without Datsyuk. Blue Jackets type of terrible.

He is the heart and soul of the team.

He is the new Lidstrom in terms of you are pretty much screwed if he isn't in the line up for the Wings.

Zetterberg is the Captain and a fantastic player, but Datsyuk is the reason the Wings have a punchers chance to win any game. That kind of game altering talent is tough to overrate.

Right now he is centering a line of Danny Cleary and Justrin Abdelkader. Those players would probably only score 50% of the time if they had an empty net in front of them and yet he makes them look competent.

WingedWheel1987 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2013, 11:40 PM
  #53
Wingsfan2965*
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 6,610
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goalsfordinner View Post
The point is that Crosby's offensive game is so much better in contrast to Datsyuk's that it negates w.e defensive advantage Datsyuk has on Crosby.
Still going in those circles...

Wingsfan2965* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2013, 11:41 PM
  #54
serge2k
Registered User
 
serge2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,381
vCash: 500
How can anyone believe that Datsyuk is underrated?

He's the most overrated player in the league and I fully believe he is a top 10 player in the game. It's just ridiculous the way HF fawns over him.

I know defensive forwards n general get overrated on here, but with Datsyuk it is at another level.

serge2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2013, 11:42 PM
  #55
Wingsfan2965*
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 6,610
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by serge2k View Post
How can anyone believe that Datsyuk is underrated?

He's the most overrated player in the league and I fully believe he is a top 10 player in the game. It's just ridiculous the way HF fawns over him.

I know defensive forwards n general get overrated on here, but with Datsyuk it is at another level.

Wingsfan2965* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2013, 11:44 PM
  #56
Wingsfan2965*
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 6,610
vCash: 500
Thanks for bringing up Crosby's solid 50% FO rate.

Datsyuk's at 60% this year, BTW.

Wingsfan2965* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2013, 11:44 PM
  #57
toob
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 718
vCash: 500
IMO he is fairly rated. At worst a top 10 player in the league since the lockout and in several years top 5.

Also i find it funny that so many of the people who are saying he is overrated are bringing up Crosby in this thread. Likely the same people who overrate Crosby.

toob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2013, 11:47 PM
  #58
od71
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 783
vCash: 500
Datsyuk is a best defensive forward. That's a big reason why he will never be Art-Ross winner. Crowd and HF is too obsessed with points issue. That's why defenders will never be in talks who is the best player ever. But points are not everything in hockey. In fact, offensive players have more chances to be overrated than defensive.
As for his skills, Dats is a best dangler, I would put even Malkin behind him as a dangler. Also Pavel has better vision than Crosby.
Dats is underrated.


Last edited by od71: 02-25-2013 at 11:53 PM.
od71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2013, 11:50 PM
  #59
Wingsfan2965*
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 6,610
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goalsfordinner View Post
LOL. I was refering to the 2009 playoffs when Crosby was 21. He has improved a lot in the dot since then as well.

Crosby this season currently at 56.4% but heres the best part. He has taken 450 draws while Datsyuk has only taken 295 and is at 60% so...

Lets see Datsyuk take another 165 draws and see if he is at 56.4%. Crosby>Datsyuk in the dot this season.

Nice try though.
Oh absolutely. It's a guarantee.

Wingsfan2965* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2013, 11:51 PM
  #60
Hardyvan123
tweet@HardyintheWack
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,314
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaseyPierroZabotel17 View Post
I'd say overrated. Sure he's a fantastic player, prob top 10-15 easily, but he's just not really on the level of Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, 05-10 Ovechkin, etc.

He's never lead the league in goals, points, never won MVP or Conn Smythe, etc.
His complete 200 foot game is also much better than all of these guys.

That's why he get over rated by some and under rated by others.

In his time in the league from 02-13 he is 8th in points and arguably has been the best player season to season over the same time period.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...rder_by=points

Personally of the top 10 guys on that list Pavel has been the best overall player IMO.

Hardyvan123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2013, 11:51 PM
  #61
TheOtherOne
Registered User
 
TheOtherOne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,110
vCash: 500
Well let's take a look at the thread. Okay, we have definitive proof that some people overrate him and some people underrate him. We have our answer, no need to discuss any further.

TheOtherOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2013, 11:52 PM
  #62
Honour Over Glory
Registered User
 
Honour Over Glory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: North America
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 9,658
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auzzie19 View Post
Woe there bud.








There are hundreds of these from datsyuk throughout his career... No way Crosby has better vision or passing skills.
Do you remember 25yr old Pavel? I do, Sid is going to be a monster when he's 32 and has the years under his belt to be on another level.

Pavel is insanely overrated, this thread is just proving it even more.

Honour Over Glory is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2013, 11:54 PM
  #63
toob
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 718
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goalsfordinner View Post
LOL. I was refering to the 2009 playoffs when Crosby was 21. He has improved a lot in the dot since then as well.

Crosby this season currently at 56.4% but heres the best part. He has taken 450 draws while Datsyuk has only taken 295 and is at 60% so...

Lets see Datsyuk take another 165 draws and see if he is at 56.4%. Crosby>Datsyuk in the dot this season.

Nice try though.
Well if youre going to go so deep into the stats and draw a conclusion why stop at number of faceoffs taken?

Datsyuk home: 58.73%
Datsyuk road: 63.21%
Crosby home: 60.91%
Crosby road: 52.17%

Two likely conclusions.
First Crosby just gets easier matchups and takes draws in more favorable situations at home which boosts his FO%. Same luxury isnt available as much on the road.
Second since stats like faceoffs are subjectively handed out and vary from rink to rink Crosby might just be getting the benefit of the doubt on some of those home draws.

toob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2013, 12:00 AM
  #64
Silfverberg Snipes
Registered User
 
Silfverberg Snipes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Vancouver, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,443
vCash: 477
Will be underrated forever. I thoroughly enjoy watching skill based players. The kind that the puck follows wherever they go.

Silfverberg Snipes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2013, 12:03 AM
  #65
Wingsfan2965*
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 6,610
vCash: 500
Crosby and Datsyuk. Both elite talent. Difference is nobody claims Datsyuk is 10x better than anybody and everybody else in the league when he's not.

Wingsfan2965* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2013, 12:04 AM
  #66
WingedWheel1987
Ken Holland's office
 
WingedWheel1987's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: GPP Michigan
Posts: 8,201
vCash: 500
Crosby is better.

Datsyuk's complete game cannot trump Crosby's machine like ability to put up points.

Datsyuk is far more fun to watch.

I like Datsyuk a lot, but Crosby is the better player. Fortunately Crosby is the best player on the planet so it's not the end of the world.

I will say this

Both Datsyuk and Crosby possess the ability to completely exert their will on a game. That is something very few players can do. It's not a talent you learn and i think it definitely allows Datsyuk to share the same stage with generational talents like Crosby and Malkin.

I dont think you can call players like that overrated.


Last edited by WingedWheel1987: 02-26-2013 at 12:19 AM.
WingedWheel1987 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2013, 12:06 AM
  #67
uncleben85
My face is my mask.
 
uncleben85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Guelph, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,495
vCash: 500
Very much overrated.

uncleben85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2013, 12:08 AM
  #68
od71
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 783
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noob616 View Post
in Montreal we have our diet version of Datsyuk in Plekanec
Lol!!

od71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2013, 12:08 AM
  #69
VladTheImpaler
Go Wings
 
VladTheImpaler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 1,844
vCash: 500
Ken Holland worded Pav's numeric value pretty well right before the season started. He said that Datsyuk may "only" be an 80 pt or so offensive player, but he is a 100+ pt defensive player...I think this is a good way of putting it. If he wanted to, there is little doubt in my mind that he could challenge for the league lead in scoring year in and year out but his tenacious effort and full commitment to defense can deter from the offensive focus.

Holland said that same thing about Zetterberg, but I don't think Hank is nearly as skilled as Pavel.

VladTheImpaler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2013, 12:14 AM
  #70
Noob616
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Halifax
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,378
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by od71 View Post
Lol!!
What's the laughing for? 1st line two way center who does all the heavy lifting at both ends of the ice. The diet means that Plekanec isn't anywhere close to Datsyuk in ability.

Noob616 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2013, 12:17 AM
  #71
od71
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 783
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noob616 View Post
What's the laughing for? 1st line two way center who does all the heavy lifting at both ends of the ice. The diet means that Plekanec isn't anywhere close to Datsyuk in ability.
Never mind, I agree. Just enjoyed your formulation

od71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2013, 12:26 AM
  #72
toob
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 718
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goalsfordinner View Post
Listen 165 draws is a lot. Crosby at 56.4% after 450 is elite as hell. The guy is a beast. He has become much more well rounded then when he was 19-20 and yet he is 1 pt off the scoring lead. The guy is a beast.
Nobody's saying he isnt great at faceoffs or that he isnt a beast.

But the amount of people who overrated Datsyuk and say he is better than Crosby is prolly less than the amount of people who overrate Crosby and say he is like top 5 all time.

toob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2013, 12:44 AM
  #73
Hardyvan123
tweet@HardyintheWack
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,314
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
Crosby is better.

Datsyuk's complete game cannot trump Crosby's machine like ability to put up points.

Datsyuk is far more fun to watch.

I like Datsyuk a lot, but Crosby is the better player. Fortunately Crosby is the best player on the planet so it's not the end of the world.

I will say this

Both Datsyuk and Crosby possess the ability to completely exert their will on a game. That is something very few players can do. It's not a talent you learn and i think it definitely allows Datsyuk to share the same stage with generational talents like Crosby and Malkin.

I dont think you can call players like that overrated.
Agree 100% with the above great post.

Hardyvan123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2013, 12:50 AM
  #74
Claypool
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,193
vCash: 500
Now I've seen everything on this board.

Claypool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2013, 12:51 AM
  #75
ArGarBarGar
Global Moderator
Defense Please
 
ArGarBarGar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 25,020
vCash: 500
Overrated by a loud minority.

Rated fairly by the rest of society.

ArGarBarGar is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:14 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.