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ATD 2013 - Draft Thread V

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Old
03-03-2013, 01:46 PM
  #501
overpass
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The Ottawa Senators select Coach Ken Hitchcock

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03-03-2013, 01:47 PM
  #502
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With our 15th selection, the 474th overall in this year All-Time Draft, les Nordiques de Québec are very please to select, from Vlcna, Czech Republic, D František Tikal





''We are excited to add the bulky defenceman to our squad. The 5'11, 181 pounds defenceman was one of the most dominant European defenceman of the 1960's. A defensive stalwart, we was renown for his strength and toughness from the blueline. A two-time World Championship best defenceman, he was also consider a great leader. We are please to add another very tough defenceman to our team.''

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03-03-2013, 01:50 PM
  #503
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Dallas makeup pick, from Ile Bizard, Quebec … C Vincent Lecavalier

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Old
03-03-2013, 01:52 PM
  #504
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ck26 View Post
3 picks in 4 minutes? One of whom I was about to take? Dallas makeup pick in a second ...
I know you love the '99 Stars but isn't Hitchcock a little overqualified to be an assistant coach here?

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Old
03-03-2013, 01:55 PM
  #505
EagleBelfour
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overpass View Post
I know you love the '99 Stars but isn't Hitchcock a little overqualified to be an assistant coach here?
I would guess he wanted Fred Stanfield.

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03-03-2013, 02:00 PM
  #506
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Quote:
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The Ottawa Senators select Coach Ken Hitchcock
****...

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Old
03-03-2013, 02:01 PM
  #507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
With our 15th selection, the 474th overall in this year All-Time Draft, les Nordiques de Québec are very please to select, from Vlcna, Czech Republic, D František Tikal





''We are excited to add the bulky defenceman to our squad. The 5'11, 181 pounds defenceman was one of the most dominant European defenceman of the 1960's. A defensive stalwart, we was renown for his strength and toughness from the blueline. A two-time World Championship best defenceman, he was also consider a great leader. We are please to add another very tough defenceman to our team.''
What's his adjusted size EB? Because 5'11 181 doesn't seem do bulky.

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03-03-2013, 02:03 PM
  #508
EagleBelfour
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
What's his adjusted size EB? Because 5'11 181 doesn't seem do bulky.
He played in the 1950's/1960's. I don't follow much the trend of adjusting sizes. Maybe 'bulky' was not the proper term (pardon my English), but he was a tough and physical defenceman.

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Old
03-03-2013, 02:09 PM
  #509
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
What's his adjusted size EB? Because 5'11 181 doesn't seem do bulky.
For his era, it was pretty big, yeah. Tim Horton, for example, is listed at 5'10" 180 lbs.

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03-03-2013, 02:11 PM
  #510
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Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
For his era, it was pretty big, yeah. Tim Horton, for example, is listed at 5'10" 180 lbs.
Horton was chisseled out of stone though, and probably was a little more than 180.

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03-03-2013, 02:11 PM
  #511
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Adjusting weights seems a little murkier than heights. For example, you can tell Jack Adams was a tank by looking at any picture of him, let alone contemporary descriptions of him. He was 175 lbs. I remember Chara was the heaviest guy when he broke in at about 245...he's 10 pounds heavier now, and there are a collection of enforcers as well as one very special case in Winnipeg (he was a bottom pairing AAA guy last draft, so I can at least hint I suppose) who are all significantly heavier.

The "10 pounds every 20 years" guideline for adjusted weight might work over a large sample, but there are a large number of cases where you look at a guy, look at the way he uses his size in a game, then look at his listed weight and it just looks flat out wrong, in any era.

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03-03-2013, 02:19 PM
  #512
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Horton was chisseled out of stone though, and probably was a little more than 180.
Yeah, Gordie Howe was as well. Eric Lindros was too though, and he was considerable heavier even if adjusting for their heights. All three had genetics on their side, but Eric had much better training and perhaps diet. But sure, perhaps it does'nt have to be an exact science from case to case.

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03-03-2013, 03:24 PM
  #513
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sorry for the delay. i was watching the game and forgot i was still logged in. i'll pick in a few minutes.


C/LW Keith Primeau


Last edited by nik jr: 03-03-2013 at 03:33 PM.
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Old
03-03-2013, 03:40 PM
  #514
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
sorry for the delay. i was watching the game and forgot i was still logged in. i'll pick in a few minutes.


C/LW Keith Primeau

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Old
03-03-2013, 04:23 PM
  #515
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C/LW Red Berenson


Seems like he's always been listed as a center, here's some of the info I found about him playing left wing. He led the Blues in scoring in 1967-68 playing on the left. Additionally he played left wing and center during his college years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Montreal Gazette - 3/31/1964
The likelihood is that either Bill Hicke or Red Berenson will take over Gilles Tremblay's spot on left wing with Bobby Rousseau on the right side...The versatile Hicke may also play right-wing with Berenson on the left left.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Montreal Gazette - 6/11/1964
The Canadiens need a left-winger and they'd like to get Larry Jeffrey, who looked so good in the playoffs for the Wings. But the latter were said to be so badly off for left-wingers themselves....If they deal with the Canadiens, Red Berenson is sure to be involved because he can play the position and has a following in the Detroit area form his undergraduate days at Michigan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schenectady Gazette - 6/15/1966
The New York Rangers acquired left winger Red Berenson from the Montreal Canadiens in Tuesday...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edmonton Journal - 10/13/1966
Others are Red Berenson, the left-winger drafted from Montreal Canadiens...Penalty killing will be important if the team continues the aggressiveness it displayed last season. Berenson and XXX should help out in that department.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Montreal Gazette - 4/6/1967
Stanley Cup Line-up
New York Rangers Montreal Canadiens
...24 Red Berenson Left Wing Dick Duff 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Phoenix - 10/9/1968
Left Wing was a problem last season.

Larry Keenan, bothered by bad knees, played only 40 games during the regular season and Dickie Moore didn't come out of retirement until Dec. 3.

Red Berenson, the Blues top scorer with 22 goals and 51 points in 55 games, didn't join the club until Nov. 27, five days after Bowman took over...
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Leader-Post - 5/2/1970
Berenson, a left winger, was three behind Goyette at 72 points...

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Old
03-03-2013, 04:31 PM
  #516
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bring Back Scuderi View Post
C/LW Red Berenson


Seems like he's always been listed as a center, here's some of the info I found about him playing left wing. He led the Blues in scoring in 1967-68 playing on the left. Additionally he played left wing and center during his college years.
Good find. Berenson is probably a borderline scoring line player at LW.

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Old
03-03-2013, 04:32 PM
  #517
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The Fireworks are very pleased to select C/LW Patrick Marleau

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Old
03-03-2013, 04:39 PM
  #518
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
To be honest, I'm not sure if the new information TDMM provided about Day is helpful to his value here. The business about his training camps resembling prison camps is pretty disturbing. Your team is mostly made up of good citizens, but Housley and especially Brewer stick out as potential problem spots under this kind of coaching. Now, I think Brewer's conflicts with Leafs coaching are somewhat overblown, but he was definitely a free spirit who chafed somewhat under the dictatorial system in place in Toronto when he played there. It seems like you may have swapped one dictator for another.
Maybe.

But Day did let the occasional player like Gordie Drillon or Babe Pratt do his thing because those were unique circumstances, while certain other coaches would not have done that.

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03-03-2013, 04:43 PM
  #519
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Originally Posted by Bring Back Scuderi View Post
C/LW Red Berenson

Seems like he's always been listed as a center, here's some of the info I found about him playing left wing. He led the Blues in scoring in 1967-68 playing on the left. Additionally he played left wing and center during his college years.
i thought i could still get berenson at 491. i was set to pick him at 475, but i decided to wait a bit.

i'm not sure why berenson had 2 very strong seasons in '69 and '70, but was otherwise not as big a scorer. i thought it may have been due to TOI, but i doubt he had limited TOI in detroit.

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03-03-2013, 04:51 PM
  #520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
i thought i could still get berenson at 491. i was set to pick him at 475, but i decided to wait a bit.

i'm not sure why berenson had 2 very strong seasons in '69 and '70, but was otherwise not as big a scorer. i thought it may have been due to TOI, but i doubt he had limited TOI in detroit.
Berenson feasted on the rest of the West Division right after expansion. St. Louis was by far the best team of the newly expanded franchises, and thrived on scoring points against bad opponents, while the East Division contained the original 6 that beat up on each other. St. Louis made the finals the first 3 years post-expansion, and got swept in every Cup final. In the very same season(67-68) he had 3 points in 19 games for the Rangers, got traded mid-season, and put up 51 points in 55 games for the Blues. Once the rest of the expansion teams caught up a bit, his scoring leveled off, then he went to Detroit. The real Red Berenson is probably the 60 point forward we saw in Detroit.

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03-03-2013, 05:08 PM
  #521
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
The Fireworks are very pleased to select C/LW Patrick Marleau
I think is a good pick. Lots of players get credit in the ATD for not reprising the go-to-guy role they played on their actual teams, why not Marleau too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
i thought i could still get berenson at 491. i was set to pick him at 475, but i decided to wait a bit.

i'm not sure why berenson had 2 very strong seasons in '69 and '70, but was otherwise not as big a scorer. i thought it may have been due to TOI, but i doubt he had limited TOI in detroit.
Yeah looking at the estimated TOI file it seems fine, maybe he was off the first PP unit one year and his line was a small amount behind Dionne's, but nothing else there.

Billy's position seems reasonable, but Berenson was getting older too. I couldn't pretend to know as much about Berenson as he does, having focused mostly on whether he played wing or not so far.

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03-03-2013, 05:10 PM
  #522
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Philadelphia will start their bottom pairing by selecting D Kevin Hatcher, who we believe has been the BDA(along with Duncan Keith) since Gary Bergman was selected 66 picks ago.



6x Top 14 AS Voting(5, 7, 9, 10, 12, 14)
54% career PP Usage
51% career PK Usage

From 1987-88 to 2000-01(14 years) among team's defense, teams reached playoffs in 13 of 14 seasons:

Overall

1st: 11 times
2nd: 1 time
3rd: 2 times

ES

1st: 5 times
2nd: 5 times
3rd: 2 times
4th: 2 times

PK

1st: 5 times
2nd: 6 times
3rd: 2 times
5th: 1 time

Here is a link to the study of offensive defensemen done by seventieslord last year which quantifies how good Kevin Hatcher was(includes undrafteds):

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=583

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03-03-2013, 05:12 PM
  #523
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyShoe1721 View Post
Philadelphia will start their bottom pairing by selecting D Kevin Hatcher, who we believe has been the BDA(along with Duncan Keith) since Gary Bergman was selected 66 picks ago.



6x Top 14 AS Voting(5, 7, 9, 10, 12, 14)
54% career PP Usage
51% career PK Usage

From 1987-88 to 2000-01(14 years) among team's defense:

Overall

1st: 11 times
2nd: 1 time
3rd: 2 times

ES

1st: 5 times
2nd: 5 times
3rd: 2 times
4th: 2 times

PK

1st: 5 times
2nd: 6 times
3rd: 2 times
5th: 1 time

Here is a link to the study of offensive defensemen done by seventieslord last year which quantifies how good Kevin Hatcher was(includes undrafteds):

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=583
I might actually try to look u up and beat u with your own pick!

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03-03-2013, 05:18 PM
  #524
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Kevin Hatcher was an "all the tools, no toolbox" kind of guy. I like him as a bottom pairing guy (where his dumb mistakes won't hurt you as much) who has the skills to play on either specialty teams. Guys like him tend to be good penalty killers, since it's easy to keep it simple on the PK. I do like the pick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
sorry for the delay. i was watching the game and forgot i was still logged in. i'll pick in a few minutes.


C/LW Keith Primeau
Didn't Primeau basically stink when he was shifted to wing? Perfect 4th line center in this though.


Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 03-03-2013 at 05:24 PM. Reason: 3
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Old
03-03-2013, 05:33 PM
  #525
monster_bertuzzi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyShoe1721 View Post
Philadelphia will start their bottom pairing by selecting D Kevin Hatcher, who we believe has been the BDA(along with Duncan Keith) since Gary Bergman was selected 66 picks ago.



6x Top 14 AS Voting(5, 7, 9, 10, 12, 14)
54% career PP Usage
51% career PK Usage

From 1987-88 to 2000-01(14 years) among team's defense, teams reached playoffs in 13 of 14 seasons:

Overall

1st: 11 times
2nd: 1 time
3rd: 2 times

ES

1st: 5 times
2nd: 5 times
3rd: 2 times
4th: 2 times

PK

1st: 5 times
2nd: 6 times
3rd: 2 times
5th: 1 time

Here is a link to the study of offensive defensemen done by seventieslord last year which quantifies how good Kevin Hatcher was(includes undrafteds):

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=583
I came really close to picking him, but he tended make some monumental blunders at the wrong times. Real good bottom pairing guy though.

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