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ATD 2013 - Draft Thread V

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Old
03-05-2013, 01:01 PM
  #651
Hawkey Town 18
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Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
No. The people who made that list knew little more about pre-war players than an average hockey fan. They had Frank Nighbor at #99, if I recall correctly, behind at least one goaltender (also a pre-war player) who has not yet been drafted. It was pretty good for the O6 to present, but for everything before 1945, it was mostly utter ****.
I believe they are also criticized around here and the history board for putting too much emphasis on championships.

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03-05-2013, 01:03 PM
  #652
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Is there any evidence that Corbeau was considered a star in his day? I can think of at least one non-HHOF contemporary who always falls to the MLD who was referred to as a "star" in the press a couple of times.

Is there any indication as to how Corbeau ranks among his peers?

I've read EB's bio and I still have no idea how good Corbeau was. And I would not want a relative unknown in my top 4. With the information currently available, use him as a bottom pairing hitter who can move the puck competently.

Being a great biographer like EB has its downside. He made such a comprehensive bio, and it has such thin evidence of defensive play that it's easy to assume that there isn't much there.

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03-05-2013, 01:16 PM
  #653
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Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
No. The people who made that list knew little more about pre-war players than an average hockey fan. They had Frank Nighbor at #99, if I recall correctly, behind at least one goaltender (also a pre-war player) who has not yet been drafted. It was pretty good for the O6 to present, but for everything before 1945, it was mostly utter ****.
This. The guys who made the list obviously didn't do any research and went by what they remembered. Given their ages, most of them went back to the original 6, and given the number of O6 players on the list, perhaps had a bit of a rosy view of the era. But overall, it's decent back to the O6 and pretty awful for players before then.

Also, Pelletier really needs to fact check his blog posts

1) The THN top 50 list was made in 1997, not 2000. It was expanded to a top 100 in 1998 based off the top 50 lists that had already been submitted, which is terrible methodology and effectively guarantees that nobody in the 51-100 range was on the majority of lists.

2) Unless someone vandalized the Wikipedia page, Schmidt finished 28th, not 27th

3). Howie Morenz could barely be considered a contemporary of Schmidt

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03-05-2013, 03:06 PM
  #654
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Kenora was skipped over an hour ago. I will PM the next GM

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03-05-2013, 03:46 PM
  #655
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Kenora picks LW Hec Kilrea

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03-05-2013, 04:51 PM
  #656
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Pittsburgh will select C, Thomas Steen


Tough center who could play defense in addition to score

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03-05-2013, 04:52 PM
  #657
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If you want to get a good idea of where corbeau belongs, try this. Rank him in his era. That isn't that hard considering the guys better than him were all selected before him. (Maybe a few others are better too, I dunno, but they must be taken by now)

Then consider what an appropriate multiplier is from his era to the 1990s or so. I'm guessing it should be at least 4x, but YMMV. So, say he's 10th, that would be similar to being the 40th best of the 90s. How many 90s defensemen are selected?

The 90s are a good benchmark to use as it is full of guys whose careers are over, who most of us saw and have ranked fairly appropriately in this draft, and spaced out in the draft list proportionally as well.

I agree with tdmm though... I really don't know if he was a star in his time at all. And pretty much every other top defenseman of the era has plenty calling them good defensively and he doesn't. So even if he really was "good", was he good compared to them? Because that's what really matters; they're the standard of the day.

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03-05-2013, 05:05 PM
  #658
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
If you want to get a good idea of where corbeau belongs, try this. Rank him in his era. That isn't that hard considering the guys better than him were all selected before him. (Maybe a few others are better too, I dunno, but they must be taken by now)

Then consider what an appropriate multiplier is from his era to the 1990s or so. I'm guessing it should be at least 4x, but YMMV. So, say he's 10th, that would be similar to being the 40th best of the 90s. How many 90s defensemen are selected?

The 90s are a good benchmark to use as it is full of guys whose careers are over, who most of us saw and have ranked fairly appropriately in this draft, and spaced out in the draft list proportionally as well.

I agree with tdmm though... I really don't know if he was a star in his time at all. And pretty much every other top defenseman of the era has plenty calling them good defensively and he doesn't. So even if he really was "good", was he good compared to them? Because that's what really matters; they're the standard of the day.
I hardly think that's fair. Some eras had better players/more depth at a certain position.

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03-05-2013, 05:15 PM
  #659
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I
I agree with tdmm though... I really don't know if he was a star in his time at all. And pretty much every other top defenseman of the era has plenty calling them good defensively and he doesn't. So even if he really was "good", was he good compared to them? Because that's what really matters; they're the standard of the day.
The Regina Morning Leader was high on him:
Jun 17, 1920
Quote:
Corbeau, of the Montreal Canadiens, rated as one of the best defencemen in the game.
His obituaries also refer to him as a star and formerly one of hockey's best defencemen.

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03-05-2013, 05:29 PM
  #660
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The Regina Morning Leader was high on him:
Jun 17, 1920


His obituaries also refer to him as a star and formerly one of hockey's best defencemen.
It's these kind of posts that made me wanted to have a wikipedia kind of site for the ATD. Unless Brave Canadian makes an 'improved' biography of the one I've made on Bert Corbeau, those are the kind of quotes that will get lost. It would be so easy to dump links and quotes of players with a site like that.

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03-05-2013, 05:36 PM
  #661
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The Minnesota Fighting Saints select, John McKenzie, RW

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03-05-2013, 07:53 PM
  #662
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The Minnesota Fighting Saints select, John McKenzie, RW
Damn! Was hoping to surround Bowie with Stasiuk and McKenzie.

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03-05-2013, 08:51 PM
  #663
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The Minnesota Fighting Saints select, John McKenzie, RW
Dammit, I was trying to figure out what to do between McKenzie and O'Reilly and both are picked......sigh*

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03-05-2013, 08:54 PM
  #664
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Going to pick in a few short minutes

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03-05-2013, 09:06 PM
  #665
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Leafs select Hobey Baker. D



Please pm the next gm

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03-05-2013, 09:22 PM
  #666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
It's these kind of posts that made me wanted to have a wikipedia kind of site for the ATD. Unless Brave Canadian makes an 'improved' biography of the one I've made on Bert Corbeau, those are the kind of quotes that will get lost. It would be so easy to dump links and quotes of players with a site like that.
That particular newspaper clipping was already in your bio.

I think the few I found earlier today were not though.. I glanced again quickly.

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03-05-2013, 10:23 PM
  #667
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Can anyone take a list?

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03-05-2013, 10:49 PM
  #668
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Leafs select Hobey Baker. D



Please pm the next gm
Done

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Old
03-05-2013, 10:56 PM
  #669
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Can anyone take a list?
I'll be around for at least a couple more hours. If it hasn't gotten to you by then I can try to pass your list on to someone else.

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03-05-2013, 11:42 PM
  #670
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I can also take a list

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Old
03-06-2013, 12:02 AM
  #671
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
Damn! Was hoping to surround Bowie with Stasiuk and McKenzie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbaBoot View Post
Dammit, I was trying to figure out what to do between McKenzie and O'Reilly and both are picked......sigh*
I've had my eye on him for a while as my ideal 3rd line rw.

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03-06-2013, 01:03 AM
  #672
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Originally Posted by Bring Back Scuderi View Post
Pittsburgh will select C, Thomas Steen


Tough center who could play defense in addition to score
I'm a pretty big fan of Steen in the ATD. I think he's always underrated based on draft position. In terms of two-way play at even strength, I think he's on the same level as his contemporary, Dale Hunter. Steen's biggest problem is that if you want to use him as a 2nd unit PKer, you need to put him with another center, because he wasn't great at faceoffs (which also somewhat holds him back at even strength from playing a shutdown role). But he's a great guy for a two-way 3rd line.

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03-06-2013, 01:41 AM
  #673
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I'm a pretty big fan of Steen in the ATD. I think he's always underrated based on draft position. In terms of two-way play at even strength, I think he's on the same level as his contemporary, Dale Hunter. Steen's biggest problem is that if you want to use him as a 2nd unit PKer, you need to put him with another center, because he wasn't great at faceoffs (which also somewhat holds him back at even strength from playing a shutdown role). But he's a great guy for a two-way 3rd line.
How similar is Thomas' game to his son's (I assume Alex won't get drafted here)?

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03-06-2013, 01:48 AM
  #674
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How similar is Thomas' game to his son's (I assume Alex won't get drafted here)?
Thomas was a first line center on the Swedish Canada cup team on a line that Boork says is the best he has ever coached.

Thomas Steen is Alex Steen on steroids. They have a very similiar game and Alex seems to be a bit underrated still in america.

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03-06-2013, 01:56 AM
  #675
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Thomas was a first line center on the Swedish Canada cup team on a line that Boork says is the best he has ever coached.

Thomas Steen is Alex Steen on steroids. They have a very similiar game and Alex seems to be a bit underrated still in america.
I meant more comparing styles than talent.

Oh I totally agree. As a Blues fan I see him being underrated daily. I hope he's healthy soon, because he's an integral part of our team.


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