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Favourite Decade for Music?

View Poll Results: What is your favourite decade for music?
2010's 2 1.60%
2000's 12 9.60%
1990's 53 42.40%
1980's 12 9.60%
1970's 31 24.80%
1960's 13 10.40%
1950's 1 0.80%
Other 1 0.80%
Voters: 125. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-09-2013, 01:06 AM
  #126
BGDDYKWL
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Originally Posted by Acadmus View Post
So you're basing the diversity of sound available purely on album sales?
No, I'm talking about which is BETTER. 90s rap was much better than 80s rap. Sure the people in the 80s did it first, but that doesn't mean they did it better. The success rap enjoyed in the 90s absolutely destroys anything that happened in the 80s. I always seem people bring this up, "Well the people in earlier decades did it first". Well of course they did, they were around first. I don't care who did it first, I care about who did it in a way that appealed to the masses. That is what defines success.

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Umm...again, you're wrong. Country artists were very popular in the mid to late 70s and some (sort of) lost their twang (which again, today they've "sort of" lost their twang, not completely) and could be heard on mainstream radio. In addition to the male artists I listed let me add Crystal Gayle (big mainstream hit with Don't You Turn my Brown Eyes Blue), Dolly Parton, and Loretta Lynn, and I know there's others just can't bring them to mind right now. Hell, even going back to the 40s and 50s you'll find country artists who broke through to the mainstream (Patsy Cline, for instance).
Umm... No. You remind me of that guy who says the athletes that started emerging in the NBA in the late 80s and early 90s weren't better than those in the past because the 70s had a guy like Connie Hawkins or whatever. Well that's great, there was ONE guy (or maybe two or even three say). I'm not looking for exceptions to the rule, I'm looking at trends, statistics. I just saw an article on here saying Country is now the most popular music genre. That shift really gained steam in the early to mid 90s. Dolly Parton may have contributed in some very small way to the early stages of that shift, but it did not experience widespread success until the 90s. I can name you dozens of country artists from the 90s up through to today that have had mainstream success. The same cannot be said prior to the 90s. Now you could argue Country has been more successful in the last 13 years than it was in the 90s, but there's no denying it was very good in the 90s. It doesn't sound near as much like Country as it did prior to the 90s, and in terms of mainstream success, that's a very good thing.

Do you know who has produced the top TEN Country albums of all-time? Garth Brooks - 6. Shania Twain - 2. Dixie Chicks - 2. And you know who's close behind? George Strait, Faith Hill. But yeah, you're probably right, Country wasn't better in the 90s. Lol.

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Originally Posted by Riverdale View Post
... nothing puts me in a better mood than some 80s.
I actually voted 90s but I'm with ya on that. I've got some 80s mix CDs that I absolutely love.

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Old
03-09-2013, 04:22 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by BGDDYKWL View Post
Umm... No. You remind me of that guy who says the athletes that started emerging in the NBA in the late 80s and early 90s weren't better than those in the past because the 70s had a guy like Connie Hawkins or whatever. Well that's great, there was ONE guy (or maybe two or even three say). I'm not looking for exceptions to the rule, I'm looking at trends, statistics. I just saw an article on here saying Country is now the most popular music genre. That shift really gained steam in the early to mid 90s. Dolly Parton may have contributed in some very small way to the early stages of that shift, but it did not experience widespread success until the 90s. I can name you dozens of country artists from the 90s up through to today that have had mainstream success. The same cannot be said prior to the 90s. Now you could argue Country has been more successful in the last 13 years than it was in the 90s, but there's no denying it was very good in the 90s. It doesn't sound near as much like Country as it did prior to the 90s, and in terms of mainstream success, that's a very good thing.

Do you know who has produced the top TEN Country albums of all-time? Garth Brooks - 6. Shania Twain - 2. Dixie Chicks - 2. And you know who's close behind? George Strait, Faith Hill. But yeah, you're probably right, Country wasn't better in the 90s. Lol.
First off, i'm not going to deny that the 90's was the most successful time for country music.. but you have to be joking in saying that there was only "ONE guy" in the 1970's for country music. Merle Haggard, Charlie Pride, Conway Twitty, Hank Williams Jr, Ray Price, Johnny Cash, Glen Campbell, Gordon Lightfoot, George Jones, Waylon Jennings, Willie Nelson, Kris Kristofferson, Kenny Rogers, Tammy Wynette, Loretta Lynn, Anne Murray... each and every one of them achieved mainstream success. And to top it off, CMT did a top-100 Country songs of ALL-TIME.. in the top-10 only 1 of the songs was from an artist in the 90's (Garth Brooks' "Friends in Low Places"), and that was at #6.

As for album sales, The Eagles "Greatest Hits (1971-1975)" album is tied with Michael Jackson's "Thriller" album for best-selling album in the United States, and has sold over 42million worldwide... You can argue the genre, but it's still classed as "country rock".

I'm also not sure you know this, but up until the late 80's-early 90's, country music wasn't played on FM radio stations... AM radio is "talk radio".. nobody listens to it.. so people weren't tuning into the stations to hear all the songs by artists mentioned above. The FCC making the switch over to FM allowed people who were just "tuning" through the dial, to hear an artist they never heard before or one they had heard but didn't exactly know. What happened? Album sales skyrocketed... How convenient that 4 of Garth Brooks' best selling albums were released during 89,90,91,92..

I guarantee you that if country music had been played on FM radio during the 70's.. the best-sellers would be entirely different.

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Old
03-09-2013, 04:41 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by BGDDYKWL View Post
No, I'm talking about which is BETTER. 90s rap was much better than 80s rap. Sure the people in the 80s did it first, but that doesn't mean they did it better. The success rap enjoyed in the 90s absolutely destroys anything that happened in the 80s. I always seem people bring this up, "Well the people in earlier decades did it first". Well of course they did, they were around first. I don't care who did it first, I care about who did it in a way that appealed to the masses. That is what defines success.
The best example of this is the 50s/60s. Rock music came out in the 50s, but the acts in the 60s are better in literally ever conceivable way.

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03-09-2013, 04:51 AM
  #129
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I agree about Hiphop being better in the 90s but could not disagree harder about country

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Old
03-09-2013, 07:44 AM
  #130
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Favorite 90's bands:

Wilco, Sugar, Sparklehorse, Firehose, Mathew Sweet, Flaming Lips, Radio Head, Pavement, Teenage Fanclub, Sonic Youth, Son Volt, Uncle Tupelo, Mark Lanegan, Steve Earl, Jayhawks, Golden Smog, Bob Mould, Whiskey Town, Paul Westerberg, Wedding Present, Ryan Adams, Dinasour Jr, Souls Asylum, Golden Palominos, Victora Williams, Young Fresh Fellows, Waterboys, john Spencer's Blues Explosion, And the usual suspects........more 80-90 cross decade bands like Pixies, Red hot chili peppers, Radio Head, REM, Weezer, XTC, U2

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03-09-2013, 08:02 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by BGDDYKWL View Post
Umm... No. You remind me of that guy who says the athletes that started emerging in the NBA in the late 80s and early 90s weren't better than those in the past because the 70s had a guy like Connie Hawkins or whatever.
And you remind me of that expression "you can't see the forest for the trees" Given how prosperous the 90s were vs. the 70s, I'm willing to bet overall album sales were MUCH higher in the 90s until near the end of the decade when internet piracy became rampant. People didn't have much disposable cash in the 70s. There was also a bit less of a celebrity, "I wanna be famous" mentality in the culture in the 70s - it was really , which also helps propel album sales. There were almost no "superstars" in any genre back then. It's a silly thing to base your comparison on. Radio airplay is a better gauge. And to be honest, as I was listening to top 40 radio at the height of his popularity, Garth Brooks had only one top 40 hit in the early 90s (at the peak of his fame), and it was a non-country cover of a KISS song, Hard Luck Woman. Shania Twain's early hits can't even properly be called country music - she started out as a plain old pop star before people somehow decided she was a Canadian country star.

The fact is, Country music's popularity has come and gone in waves depending on the mood of the public. The only reason it's remained so popular since the late 90s is because these artists today really aren't country singers. They're branded that, but their style is more related to pure pop music than it is country. But in the 70s and early 80s it was mainstream enough to have a hit syndicated TV show, Hee Haw, and Buck Owens, Roy Clark, Grandpa Jones, and Minnie Pearl became household names. Sorry if you refuse to see it, but country was at least if not even more popular in the 70s than in the 90s. There's a lot more to popularity than album sales.

Here's another couple names - Charlie Daniels and the Mandrell Sisters (who were a big mainstream hit with TV specials and such). Given enough time I could name far enough 70s country stars who most Americans knew about to put your dozen or so "crossover" 90s artists to shame.

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Old
03-09-2013, 02:17 PM
  #132
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Besides, hockey players improve with time due to technology. Music/art doesn't have any reason to follow that rule, and generally doesn't. It just becomes different.

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Old
03-09-2013, 03:13 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by WhipNash27 View Post
I'm sorry, but no way.

With rock I can support someone saying 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, but 00s? No way. Mainstream rock took a dive off the deep end a few years after 2000. The genre in general hasn't had a real impact on music for a decade.
Metal, 70s, 80s, early 90s. From Black Sabboth, AC/DC, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Motörhead, etc. through the heyday of Metallica, Pantera, Megadeth, Anthrax, Slayer, etc.
Hip-hop 90s without a doubt. I can agree if you want to say 00s, but if you were around in the 90s, you knew the kind of impact that hip-hop had in those days was astonishing.
Punk depends on what you classify as punk, but late 70s and early 80s are the peak of classic punk. The 90s also had a big wave of punk but much different than what happened back then. Punk since then is something completely different. So that's all up to interpretation.
See, I don't like any of those bands. I really should have high-lighted alternative rock, since that is what I listened to growing up. Thrice, Taking Back Sunday, Glassjaw, Brand New, The Fall of Troy, Bloc Party, The Mars Volta, even Blink-182. (Not just those bands obviously, I'm just trying to paint you a picture here) I know that is a lot of different "rock" but that is what I grew up listening to and when I go on rock-music binges that is what I listen to. When I first started listening to metal in Grade 7 it was all about Metallica, Pantera, and the ilk. After that I moved right into post-metal, progressive metal, ambient metal, (Metal/Rock in a lot of these cases) and even occasionally indulged in a few black and power metal bands. I also enjoyed new-age metal core like bands similar to Bring me the Horizon (Although I didn't actually like BMTH until their most recent album).

And no, 90s hip-hop never really did it for me. There are a few old-school songs I enjoy, but I never enjoyed rap or hip-hop until I discovered artists that were heavy on production and more on "sounding nice" than the ability to spit, which I still really appreciate, but rap and hip-hop has become a lot more "intelligent" since 2000, which is what I like to look for.

Someone also argued against this current decade for EDM. I don't really have an argument for that besides "no". I'm not speaking EDM stricly in terms of comparing Deadmau5 to Daft Punk to Benny Benassi or old gabber music of the 90s. The internet has made it so easy (almost to a fault) for great artists to get their songs out to everyone, and it is fantastic stuff if you know where to look. I still enjoy the EDM massives with the big names, but the small-time raves with local DJs also have some absolutely amazing songs, all of which are a couple years old at most. Let's also not forget that a lot of the best EDM genres like trap, moombahton, breakbeat, are only starting to really emerge recently.


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Old
03-09-2013, 03:27 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by The Dayvan Cowboy View Post
See, I don't like any of those bands. I really should have high-lighted alternative rock, since that is what I listened to growing up. Thrice, Taking Back Sunday, Glassjaw, Brand New, The Fall of Troy, Bloc Party, The Mars Volta, even Blink-182. (Not just those bands obviously, I'm just trying to paint you a picture here) I know that is a lot of different "rock" but that is what I grew up listening to and when I go on rock-music binges that is what I listen to. When I first started listening to metal in Grade 7 it was all about Metallica, Pantera, and the ilk. After that I moved right into post-metal, progressive metal, ambient metal, (Metal/Rock in a lot of these cases) and even occasionally indulged in a few black and power metal bands. I also enjoyed new-age metal core like bands similar to Bring me the Horizon (Although I didn't actually like BMTH until their most recent album).

And no, 90s hip-hop never really did it for me. There are a few old-school songs I enjoy, but I never enjoyed rap or hip-hop until I discovered artists that were heavy on production and more on "sounding nice" than the ability to spit, which I still really appreciate, but rap and hip-hop has become a lot more "intelligent" since 2000, which is what I like to look for.

Someone also argued against this current decade for EDM. I don't really have an argument for that besides "no". I'm not speaking EDM stricly in terms of comparing Deadmau5 to Daft Punk to Benny Benassi or old gabber music of the 90s. The internet has made it so easy (almost to a fault) for great artists to get their songs out to everyone, and it is fantastic stuff if you know where to look. I still enjoy the EDM massives with the big names, but the small-time raves with local DJs also have some absolutely amazing songs, all of which are a couple years old at most. Let's also not forget that a lot of the best EDM genres like trap, moombahton, breakbeat, are only starting to really emerge recently.
How could they argue "for" it? Look at the standings in the past few years, EDM sucks...

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Old
03-09-2013, 03:33 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by The Dayvan Cowboy View Post
See, I don't like any of those bands. I really should have high-lighted alternative rock, since that is what I listened to growing up. Thrice, Taking Back Sunday, Glassjaw, Brand New, The Fall of Troy, Bloc Party, The Mars Volta, even Blink-182. (Not just those bands obviously, I'm just trying to paint you a picture here) I know that is a lot of different "rock" but that is what I grew up listening to and when I go on rock-music binges that is what I listen to. When I first started listening to metal in Grade 7 it was all about Metallica, Pantera, and the ilk. After that I moved right into post-metal, progressive metal, ambient metal, (Metal/Rock in a lot of these cases) and even occasionally indulged in a few black and power metal bands. I also enjoyed new-age metal core like bands similar to Bring me the Horizon (Although I didn't actually like BMTH until their most recent album).

And no, 90s hip-hop never really did it for me. There are a few old-school songs I enjoy, but I never enjoyed rap or hip-hop until I discovered artists that were heavy on production and more on "sounding nice" than the ability to spit, which I still really appreciate, but rap and hip-hop has become a lot more "intelligent" since 2000, which is what I like to look for.

Someone also argued against this current decade for EDM. I don't really have an argument for that besides "no". I'm not speaking EDM stricly in terms of comparing Deadmau5 to Daft Punk to Benny Benassi or old gabber music of the 90s. The internet has made it so easy (almost to a fault) for great artists to get their songs out to everyone, and it is fantastic stuff if you know where to look. I still enjoy the EDM massives with the big names, but the small-time raves with local DJs also have some absolutely amazing songs, all of which are a couple years old at most. Let's also not forget that a lot of the best EDM genres like trap, moombahton, breakbeat, are only starting to really emerge recently.
What the... That's crazy talk (that it's gotten more intelligent).

And why would production/gloss be more intelligent than lyricism?

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03-09-2013, 03:42 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Shareefruck View Post
What the... That's crazy talk (that it's gotten more intelligent).

And why would production/gloss be more intelligent than lyricism?
I would say rap lyrics have gotten more intelligent as a whole. There are still a lot of very talented rappers who can combine lyricism, ability, and production to make some great stuff. I also generally enjoy the subject matter in today's rap more, for whatever reason although that is entirely subjective.

I'm not trying to **** on 90s rap here. I'm being very subjective. Before Macklemore got big, I would have used the example of "Otherside" without the production. That is a song that was just magnificently written and performed, that I loved regardless of the accompanying production. It just comes down to; I would rather listen to, say, Kanye West, than Tupac. So it doesn't really make sense for me to say 90s, does it?

For example, this isn't even close to my favorite hip-hop song but I would rather listen to this than anything from the 90s:



I still enjoy some classic hip-hop, but 90% of the time the new stuff has all of the elements that appeal to me, whereas most of the 90s rap/hip-hop only has some of the elements, and I objectively don't think they're that much better, at least to the extent to make me say I preferred the 90s.

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Old
03-09-2013, 04:09 PM
  #137
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Besides, hockey players improve with time due to technology. Music/art doesn't have any reason to follow that rule, and generally doesn't. It just becomes different.
I find rap improves with technology, but most genres won't. Listen to a beat from the 80's or early 90's and listen to All of the Lights' beat and you understand how much more work goes in to modern hip hop then the early stuff. Rap is one of the few genres that is getting better sonically. Maybe not lyrically, but it sounds better now then it ever has before.

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03-09-2013, 04:44 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by The Dayvan Cowboy View Post
I would say rap lyrics have gotten more intelligent as a whole. There are still a lot of very talented rappers who can combine lyricism, ability, and production to make some great stuff. I also generally enjoy the subject matter in today's rap more, for whatever reason although that is entirely subjective.

I'm not trying to **** on 90s rap here. I'm being very subjective. Before Macklemore got big, I would have used the example of "Otherside" without the production. That is a song that was just magnificently written and performed, that I loved regardless of the accompanying production. It just comes down to; I would rather listen to, say, Kanye West, than Tupac. So it doesn't really make sense for me to say 90s, does it?

For example, this isn't even close to my favorite hip-hop song but I would rather listen to this than anything from the 90s:



I still enjoy some classic hip-hop, but 90% of the time the new stuff has all of the elements that appeal to me, whereas most of the 90s rap/hip-hop only has some of the elements, and I objectively don't think they're that much better, at least to the extent to make me say I preferred the 90s.
Listen, I'm not arguing against your freedom to prefer the 00s over the 90s or and vote accordingly, I read your post as "I prefer hiphop that focuses on production (00s) over lyricism (90s)-- I just like that it's more intelligent." Which sounded crazy, to say the least.

On a side note, personally, I haven't been able to get into 00s rap at all, whereas I think Nas and A Tribe Called Quest are brilliant.


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03-09-2013, 04:51 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by 76ftw View Post
I find rap improves with technology, but most genres won't. Listen to a beat from the 80's or early 90's and listen to All of the Lights' beat and you understand how much more work goes in to modern hip hop then the early stuff. Rap is one of the few genres that is getting better sonically. Maybe not lyrically, but it sounds better now then it ever has before.
I definitely disagree (I tried "All of the Lights" and I don't see it at all-- I really dislike Kanye's work). Gloss, difficulty, and complexity (the things that technology help) do not necessarily result in something better (even if it can). For my money, the 90s beats were more minimalist and were more effective for it.

Music is one thing that you could try harder and put more work into it and it could still end up being worse. It's not a direct correlation, so comparing it to things that directly benefit from technology like athletics feels downright wrong to me. Same with movies.

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03-10-2013, 06:09 AM
  #140
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First off, i'm not going to deny that the 90's was the most successful time for country music.. but you have to be joking in saying that there was only "ONE guy" in the 1970's for country music. Merle Haggard, Charlie Pride, Conway Twitty, Hank Williams Jr, Ray Price, Johnny Cash, Glen Campbell, Gordon Lightfoot, George Jones, Waylon Jennings, Willie Nelson, Kris Kristofferson, Kenny Rogers, Tammy Wynette, Loretta Lynn, Anne Murray... each and every one of them achieved mainstream success. And to top it off, CMT did a top-100 Country songs of ALL-TIME.. in the top-10 only 1 of the songs was from an artist in the 90's (Garth Brooks' "Friends in Low Places"), and that was at #6.
Oh no, I'm sure there were plenty of popular country stars in the 70s. Most of the people you listed are household names. I just don't think many of them reached the mainstream popularity of many of the artists of the 90s.

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As for album sales, The Eagles "Greatest Hits (1971-1975)" album is tied with Michael Jackson's "Thriller" album for best-selling album in the United States, and has sold over 42million worldwide... You can argue the genre, but it's still classed as "country rock".
I don't consider The Eagles country, but I'll take your word for their classification. (I didn't include Greatist Hits albums in my post)

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I'm also not sure you know this, but up until the late 80's-early 90's, country music wasn't played on FM radio stations... AM radio is "talk radio".. nobody listens to it.. so people weren't tuning into the stations to hear all the songs by artists mentioned above. The FCC making the switch over to FM allowed people who were just "tuning" through the dial, to hear an artist they never heard before or one they had heard but didn't exactly know. What happened? Album sales skyrocketed... How convenient that 4 of Garth Brooks' best selling albums were released during 89,90,91,92..
I didn't know that. That's interesting.

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And you remind me of that expression "you can't see the forest for the trees" Given how prosperous the 90s were vs. the 70s, I'm willing to bet overall album sales were MUCH higher in the 90s until near the end of the decade when internet piracy became rampant. People didn't have much disposable cash in the 70s. There was also a bit less of a celebrity, "I wanna be famous" mentality in the culture in the 70s - it was really , which also helps propel album sales. There were almost no "superstars" in any genre back then. It's a silly thing to base your comparison on. Radio airplay is a better gauge. And to be honest, as I was listening to top 40 radio at the height of his popularity, Garth Brooks had only one top 40 hit in the early 90s (at the peak of his fame), and it was a non-country cover of a KISS song, Hard Luck Woman. Shania Twain's early hits can't even properly be called country music - she started out as a plain old pop star before people somehow decided she was a Canadian country star.
I'm not really a fan of twangy country, and I don't think most people are either, that's why the 90s artists were able to break through IMO. The music was more pleasant to the masses. Sure purists probably don't like it as much, and I can understand that, but I think it appealed to a wider audience.

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The fact is, Country music's popularity has come and gone in waves depending on the mood of the public. The only reason it's remained so popular since the late 90s is because these artists today really aren't country singers. They're branded that, but their style is more related to pure pop music than it is country. But in the 70s and early 80s it was mainstream enough to have a hit syndicated TV show, Hee Haw, and Buck Owens, Roy Clark, Grandpa Jones, and Minnie Pearl became household names. Sorry if you refuse to see it, but country was at least if not even more popular in the 70s than in the 90s. There's a lot more to popularity than album sales.
I do remember Hee Haw. Pretty sure TNN used to air reruns. Among other networks probably. You feel Country was more popular in the 70s, but I think far more people listened to Country in the 90s because the sound became more appealing to the masses.

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Here's another couple names - Charlie Daniels and the Mandrell Sisters (who were a big mainstream hit with TV specials and such). Given enough time I could name far enough 70s country stars who most Americans knew about to put your dozen or so "crossover" 90s artists to shame.
I don't think you could name people from the 70s who were more successful than a Garth Brooks or a Shania Twain. And again, the Country fans are a loyal and passionate bunch, so I'm sure there were popular Country stars in the 70s. My point is they didn't appeal to as wide an of audience as the stars of the 90s.

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03-10-2013, 12:30 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Shareefruck View Post
I definitely disagree (I tried "All of the Lights" and I don't see it at all-- I really dislike Kanye's work). Gloss, difficulty, and complexity (the things that technology help) do not necessarily result in something better (even if it can). For my money, the 90s beats were more minimalist and were more effective for it.

Music is one thing that you could try harder and put more work into it and it could still end up being worse. It's not a direct correlation, so comparing it to things that directly benefit from technology like athletics feels downright wrong to me. Same with movies.
Didn't you say somewhere you liked Tribe Called Quest? Kanye is basically jacked their style for his first album (The College Dropout) and Q-Tip (From TCQ) is signed to Kanye's GOOD Music label and has produced a lot of songs from Cruel Summer and some of the GOOD Friday tracks I believe. Kanye is heavily influenced by them so I'm surprised you wouldn't like his music. Common is another huge influence on Kanye, as is Mos Def etc... People often forget about that and think he's just some rapper who makes hits, his albums are all certified classics in rap (except 808 which, while not a classic in and of itself, will be remembered as one of the most important albums in music because of the trend it set. Artists like Drake would not be around if it weren't for 808, even Drake himself admitted it.

ANYWAY back to the point at hand, I find while obviously lyrically some rappers (2 Chainz, as an example) are obviously awful compared to their forefathers, their music still sounds better. It's more complex which I appreciate as someone who listens to hip hop and then listens to the samples as well. It really puts it in to perspective how much work is put in to the act of producing a track. I find the simple beats of the 80's and 90's were better for lyrical rappers, but honestly with Dre's 2001 I found there was a huge movement towards the bigger, modern beats if you will. While some rappers, Kendrick, Kanye, J Cole etc... still maintain some meaning in their lyrics, the beats still are hype enough to bump. Take Jesus Walks by Kanye or Swimming Pools by Kendrick, two songs that are social in nature (Jesus Walks obviously and Swimming Pools is about how bad drinking is, ironically) have become bangers and you would hear them in the clubs.

Rap is at a point now where anyone can get their 15 minutes, but it still takes doing something meaningful, either lyrically or sonically to get noticed. 2 Chainz for exmaple, while obviously not a good lyrical rapper, has amazing charisma and you can't help but like him on a personal level too. HE's been around for a while, but he only made it big this past year (2012) in part because of the co-sign/support of Kanye in Mercy and other tracks. To go from unknown a year ago by the mainstream to MTV's number two MC in a year is pretty cool.

Or look at Waka flocka, another rapper who doesn't have a lot to say, but he pioneered a style of rap which should be respected, and Pitchfork gave him an 8.5 on his first solo I believe.

edit: I am not a fan of gangster rap either, so that's a big reason why I like rap now more today. Like Kanye, Big Sean, Cudi, Drake, Kendrick, 2 Chainz etc... you have a hard time believing any of those guys ever were in a gang, in fact we know about most of them they grew up middle class. I think I like Kanye so much because a lot the issues he raps about I can understand (The song Spaceships for example is about a dead end job, which all middle class teenagers understand the feeling of working a **** job and having ****** bosses).

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03-10-2013, 03:05 PM
  #142
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Influence and subjectivity are two entirely different things.

I choose the 90s based entirely on subjectivity. It was also pretty influential as well, but not as influential as earlier decades. Still not enough to put them ahead though. Not by a long shot.


We all have our own favorite hockey teams, and our favorite hockey moments, players, etc. are for personal reasons, not because of some objective career points list.

Im pretty sure everyone knows The Beatles were arguably the most influential band, but who gives a **** if theyre not someone's favorite band. I personally love The Beatles, but most of my favorite musical moments and just music in general are nowhere ****ing near them.


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03-10-2013, 04:21 PM
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The rock of the 70's mixed with the alternative of the 90's.

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03-10-2013, 04:46 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by 76ftw View Post
Didn't you say somewhere you liked Tribe Called Quest? Kanye is basically jacked their style for his first album (The College Dropout) and Q-Tip (From TCQ) is signed to Kanye's GOOD Music label and has produced a lot of songs from Cruel Summer and some of the GOOD Friday tracks I believe. Kanye is heavily influenced by them so I'm surprised you wouldn't like his music. Common is another huge influence on Kanye, as is Mos Def etc... People often forget about that and think he's just some rapper who makes hits, his albums are all certified classics in rap (except 808 which, while not a classic in and of itself, will be remembered as one of the most important albums in music because of the trend it set. Artists like Drake would not be around if it weren't for 808, even Drake himself admitted it.
I guess it goes to show then that liking a group doesn't necessarily mean that you'll like everything that they influence. I've tried Kanye's more popular albums several times and I thoroughly didn't care for them.

For the record, I don't care too much about influence either. But I do think it's a trend that the highly influential bands also happen to be better/more satisfying alot of the time

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03-10-2013, 05:05 PM
  #145
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Listen, I'm not arguing against your freedom to prefer the 00s over the 90s or and vote accordingly, I read your post as "I prefer hiphop that focuses on production (00s) over lyricism (90s)-- I just like that it's more intelligent." Which sounded crazy, to say the least.

On a side note, personally, I haven't been able to get into 00s rap at all, whereas I think Nas and A Tribe Called Quest are brilliant.
When it comes to song production, an unspoken element that is crucial to music is the form it takes and the accompaniment to the vocalist. Someone who can rap a storm but raps over a limp, crude or sparse beat has himself limited in the means of getting the meaning across. Sometimes simplicity, crudeness and sparseness is crucial to the meaning of the song, other times it is a hindrance to the song. The ability to decide in hiphop has been a boon.

Though what I find interesting is that during the later period of Miami Bass (mid-late 90s, re: Jackal & Hyde, for example), there was a lot of lushness and depth available but rappers turned away from it. Maybe there was a geographical barrier there or maybe there was a cultural split, I don't know.

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03-11-2013, 02:29 PM
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Besides, hockey players improve with time due to technology. Music/art doesn't have any reason to follow that rule, and generally doesn't. It just becomes different.
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Originally Posted by Shareefruck View Post
I definitely disagree (I tried "All of the Lights" and I don't see it at all-- I really dislike Kanye's work). Gloss, difficulty, and complexity (the things that technology help) do not necessarily result in something better (even if it can). For my money, the 90s beats were more minimalist and were more effective for it.

Music is one thing that you could try harder and put more work into it and it could still end up being worse. It's not a direct correlation, so comparing it to things that directly benefit from technology like athletics feels downright wrong to me. Same with movies.
Definitely. Overproduced albums are more of a problem than anything, sans electronic like Autechre. It takes away from the soul of the music if you know what I mean.

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See, I don't like any of those bands. I really should have high-lighted alternative rock, since that is what I listened to growing up. Thrice, Taking Back Sunday, Glassjaw, Brand New, The Fall of Troy, Bloc Party, The Mars Volta, even Blink-182. (Not just those bands obviously, I'm just trying to paint you a picture here) I know that is a lot of different "rock" but that is what I grew up listening to and when I go on rock-music binges that is what I listen to. When I first started listening to metal in Grade 7 it was all about Metallica, Pantera, and the ilk. After that I moved right into post-metal, progressive metal, ambient metal, (Metal/Rock in a lot of these cases) and even occasionally indulged in a few black and power metal bands. I also enjoyed new-age metal core like bands similar to Bring me the Horizon (Although I didn't actually like BMTH until their most recent album).

And no, 90s hip-hop never really did it for me. There are a few old-school songs I enjoy, but I never enjoyed rap or hip-hop until I discovered artists that were heavy on production and more on "sounding nice" than the ability to spit, which I still really appreciate, but rap and hip-hop has become a lot more "intelligent" since 2000, which is what I like to look for.

Someone also argued against this current decade for EDM. I don't really have an argument for that besides "no". I'm not speaking EDM stricly in terms of comparing Deadmau5 to Daft Punk to Benny Benassi or old gabber music of the 90s. The internet has made it so easy (almost to a fault) for great artists to get their songs out to everyone, and it is fantastic stuff if you know where to look. I still enjoy the EDM massives with the big names, but the small-time raves with local DJs also have some absolutely amazing songs, all of which are a couple years old at most. Let's also not forget that a lot of the best EDM genres like trap, moombahton, breakbeat, are only starting to really emerge recently.
I seriously doubt it. 90s had Autechre, Aphex Twin, trip-hop (Portishead, Massive Attack, Tricky), a surge of industrial (Ministry, Skinny Puppy, Front 242, Nine Inch Nails, Killing Joke, Frontline Assembly, Einsturzende Neubauten), some electronic-tinged goth (Rosetta Stone, Alien Sex Fiend, Switchblade Symphony). Not to mention Beherit, Steve Reich, Stereolab, The Shamen, To Rococo Rot, Twilight Circus, Psychic TV, Cabaret Voltaire. I'll give you Boards of Canada and Goldfrapp. Who else for the 00s? I think 90s cleans up when it come to electronic / dance.

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03-11-2013, 03:22 PM
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I'll give you Boards of Canada and Goldfrapp. Who else for the 00s?
The Field, Burial, Flying Lotus, The Knife, The Avalanches, Pantha du Prince, Apparat, Jon Hopkins, BT, James Holden, a ton of modern psybient acts (Shpongle, Carbon Based Lifeforms, Solar Fields, Vibrasphere), drum and bass (Ed Rush & Optical, Klute, Phace, Calibre, Blu Mar Ten), anything released on Ninja Tune that decade. I could keep going but you get the point. Tons of great electronic music from the 90s, but with all the advances in electronic instruments in the 00s, you didn't have to be an electrician to wire a synth or a programmer to make a filter automation anymore. There really were a lot of technical limitations to what you could do in the 90s, which is why guys like RDJ and Autechre and Alec Empire stood out so much. They were doing crazy **** that nobody had ever heard before. But in the 00s, when that kind of stuff became easier to do, you get people focusing more on the musical side of the coin rather than the technical side.

I don't think one decade is better than the other, they're just different in terms of what makes them good. There's so much quality in both that it's hard to make a choice.

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03-11-2013, 06:58 PM
  #148
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EDIT: I forgot to add one of my favorite electronic groups, Download (90s). Just heard Ulver's Perdition City--good electronic for the 00s.

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Favorite 90's bands:

Wilco, Sugar, Sparklehorse, Firehose, Mathew Sweet, Flaming Lips, Radio Head, Pavement, Teenage Fanclub, Sonic Youth, Son Volt, Uncle Tupelo, Mark Lanegan, Steve Earl, Jayhawks, Golden Smog, Bob Mould, Whiskey Town, Paul Westerberg, Wedding Present, Ryan Adams, Dinasour Jr, Souls Asylum, Golden Palominos, Victora Williams, Young Fresh Fellows, Waterboys, john Spencer's Blues Explosion, And the usual suspects........more 80-90 cross decade bands like Pixies, Red hot chili peppers, Radio Head, REM, Weezer, XTC, U2
No Sebadoh? Bakesale's an awesome album.

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Originally Posted by Benny Lava View Post
The Field, Burial, Flying Lotus, The Knife, The Avalanches, Pantha du Prince, Apparat, Jon Hopkins, BT, James Holden, a ton of modern psybient acts (Shpongle, Carbon Based Lifeforms, Solar Fields, Vibrasphere), drum and bass (Ed Rush & Optical, Klute, Phace, Calibre, Blu Mar Ten), anything released on Ninja Tune that decade. I could keep going but you get the point. Tons of great electronic music from the 90s, but with all the advances in electronic instruments in the 00s, you didn't have to be an electrician to wire a synth or a programmer to make a filter automation anymore. There really were a lot of technical limitations to what you could do in the 90s, which is why guys like RDJ and Autechre and Alec Empire stood out so much. They were doing crazy **** that nobody had ever heard before. But in the 00s, when that kind of stuff became easier to do, you get people focusing more on the musical side of the coin rather than the technical side.

I don't think one decade is better than the other, they're just different in terms of what makes them good. There's so much quality in both that it's hard to make a choice.
Yeah--what made / makes Autechre good are their concepts, whatever they are--not the technology so much. Technology helps, along with an ability to program better or think mathematically, I would imagine. But that comes from experience and discipline. Still, I think I prefer their early CDs with their more minimal approach.


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