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Rumour: Flyers interested in Dustin Byfuglien

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Old
02-27-2013, 06:35 PM
  #101
Snot Rocket
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First off, Buffy has a Modified NTC.

Second, the only way we are going to move Buff is if a team backs up the top tier player truck with picks...and that is not a realistic expectation.

I don't think he will be traded at any rate, unless he asks to go.
He is a game changer on ice and in the room.
The guy is only a few hours from "home" and near all kinds of world class fishing.

There are 2 Buffs, the off ice quiet, shy Buff. The on ice Buff that relishes the love he gets here. If anyone has ever been on stage or preformed, they know this switch that gets flipped with some people. His on ice persona loves the attention and cheering and he is not going to get that kind of love anywhere else.

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02-27-2013, 06:50 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Snot Rocket View Post
First off, Buffy has a Modified NTC.

Second, the only way we are going to move Buff is if a team backs up the top tier player truck with picks...and that is not a realistic expectation.

I don't think he will be traded at any rate, unless he asks to go.
He is a game changer on ice and in the room.
The guy is only a few hours from "home" and near all kinds of world class fishing.

There are 2 Buffs, the off ice quiet, shy Buff. The on ice Buff that relishes the love he gets here. If anyone has ever been on stage or preformed, they know this switch that gets flipped with some people. His on ice persona loves the attention and cheering and he is not going to get that kind of love anywhere else.
Why wouldn't he get love elsewhere?

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02-27-2013, 06:52 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Hansen Brother View Post
This is an honest question and I really would like to know if you have an answer, no hostility intended whatsoever.

Who are some defencemen who have played for substantial parts of their careers on their off hand and been as successful as when they play their natural side? Has there ever been guys who prefer playing their off hand?
I think it's that we don't really have to worry about moving a Top Dman just because he is a RD on paper. If Chevy was concerned with that, he probably wouldn't have drafted Trouba.

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Old
02-27-2013, 08:06 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by truck View Post
Why wouldn't he get love elsewhere?
Truck, that is more like the cherry on top...a big Buff sized cherry, but a cherry none the less.

All the outside factors on their own are quite nice, but when you have all the outside factors and you are a fan favorite in a hockey mad market like ours, you get that little bit more. Some barns cheer, some barns roar, but we, the jets fans, turn our barn noise level to 11...sometimes just for player intros...and when we score, we don't need that horn. Heck, we sound like the fans @ an Iron Maiden show in a soccer stadium.

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02-27-2013, 09:25 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Hobble View Post
Simmonds, Couturier, Coburn, 1st for Buff...
You have got to be kidding. Of 27 skaters listed in player stats at http://flyers.nhl.com/club/stats.htm...0122013&srt=pm
  • Simmonds has a plus/minus of -1, 10th worst on the team
  • Couturier is -6, 3rd worst on the team
  • Coburn is -9, worst on the team

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02-27-2013, 10:01 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by knorthern knight View Post
You have got to be kidding. Of 27 skaters listed in player stats at http://flyers.nhl.com/club/stats.htm...0122013&srt=pm
  • Simmonds has a plus/minus of -1, 10th worst on the team
  • Couturier is -6, 3rd worst on the team
  • Coburn is -9, worst on the team
Do you have any idea how much of a win that trade would be for the Jets?

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02-27-2013, 10:21 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Mgkibbles View Post
Do you have any idea how much of a win that trade would be for the Jets?
Huge win!

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Old
02-27-2013, 11:30 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hansen Brother View Post
This is an honest question and I really would like to know if you have an answer, no hostility intended whatsoever.

Who are some defencemen who have played for substantial parts of their careers on their off hand and been as successful as when they play their natural side? Has there ever been guys who prefer playing their off hand?
I'm not going to start listing off NHL defenseman because I am lazy

I as a defenseman hate playing my off side unless I am on the PP. I just don't feel as comfortable checking guys coming from my off side. I also don't like pulling the puck off the boards on my backhand.

I do know guys who could care less what side they play, but I can't think of anyone I've played with who prefers playing his off hand.

I think Bogosian would be the type of guy who could switch sides with no problem.

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02-28-2013, 12:17 AM
  #109
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......sry

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Old
02-28-2013, 06:19 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Mgkibbles View Post
Do you have any idea how much of a win that trade would be for the Jets?
You are right. Reading through this thread, the one on the main board and the one on the Philly board the range of offers is amazing. Some are just as bad as this going the other way. My take is Buff's value is somewhere in between the 2 extremes.

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02-28-2013, 06:50 AM
  #111
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"Were you trying to quote me? I said second best offensive D in the league. Tell me who is better than Byfuglien offensively other than Karlsson. Judging by stats from a very limited number of games is insane, especially when Byfuglien has missed some of those games and played hurt in others. Judge by actually watching games or failing that, actually looking up stats from last year."

You're entitled to your own opinion. You are not entitled to your own facts. If you want to argue: "ignore this year, Buff was tied for second in scoring among D-men last year and 4th in scoring among d-men the year before and that that makes him -today- the second best offensive d-man in hockey, go for it. I think Buff is a good offensive d-man - but not the unquestioned second best in hockey. That would be my opinion - not fact.

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02-28-2013, 07:31 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Nothing Is New View Post
"Were you trying to quote me? I said second best offensive D in the league. Tell me who is better than Byfuglien offensively other than Karlsson. Judging by stats from a very limited number of games is insane, especially when Byfuglien has missed some of those games and played hurt in others. Judge by actually watching games or failing that, actually looking up stats from last year."

You're entitled to your own opinion. You are not entitled to your own facts. If you want to argue: "ignore this year, Buff was tied for second in scoring among D-men last year and 4th in scoring among d-men the year before and that that makes him -today- the second best offensive d-man in hockey, go for it. I think Buff is a good offensive d-man - but not the unquestioned second best in hockey. That would be my opinion - not fact.
Who are you responding to?

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02-28-2013, 08:17 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Nothing Is New View Post
"Were you trying to quote me? I said second best offensive D in the league. Tell me who is better than Byfuglien offensively other than Karlsson. Judging by stats from a very limited number of games is insane, especially when Byfuglien has missed some of those games and played hurt in others. Judge by actually watching games or failing that, actually looking up stats from last year."

You're entitled to your own opinion. You are not entitled to your own facts. If you want to argue: "ignore this year, Buff was tied for second in scoring among D-men last year and 4th in scoring among d-men the year before and that that makes him -today- the second best offensive d-man in hockey, go for it. I think Buff is a good offensive d-man - but not the unquestioned second best in hockey. That would be my opinion - not fact.
I'm not saying you're not entitled to your opinion. You misquoted me (there's a quote button btw) and then based an "opinion" off total stats without accounting for time missed due to injury. Buff has missed several games and it's early in the season, of course he's not leading d-men in scoring. By your logic Crosby sucks because he had 37 points last year.

Again, which defensemen in the league are better than Byfuglien offensively in your opinion? I'm curious to know. I gave my opinion, you merely refuted it by saying he's 32nd in scoring this season. I want to know where he ranks for you and who's ahead of him.


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Old
02-28-2013, 09:20 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by knorthern knight View Post
You have got to be kidding. Of 27 skaters listed in player stats at http://flyers.nhl.com/club/stats.htm...0122013&srt=pm
  • Simmonds has a plus/minus of -1, 10th worst on the team
  • Couturier is -6, 3rd worst on the team
  • Coburn is -9, worst on the team

I don't want the Jets to trade Buff. I think he brings a great deal to the team both on and off the ice. Great offensive defensemen, great personality, fits oh-so-well with much of blue-collar Winnipeg's idea of a guy - drinkin', boatin', fishin'. When I buy a white Jets jersey I'm leaning to putting Byfuglien's name on the back.

That said if we can get Simmonds, Couturier and Coburn back for Big Buff I'll drive the fine gentleman to the airport, say I'm sorry to see him leave and then dance a jig once he's out of sight. I just don't see the Flyers losing their mind quite so badly.

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02-28-2013, 11:10 AM
  #115
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Trading Buff would be an absolutely brutal idea. If they do it, for anyone, I would lose a ton of confidence in True North's ability to run a hockey team.

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Old
02-28-2013, 11:39 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Fidel Astro View Post
Trading Buff would be an absolutely brutal idea. If they do it, for anyone, I would lose a ton of confidence in True North's ability to run a hockey team.
oh come now, every man has his price.

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02-28-2013, 12:04 PM
  #117
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So who would you trade Buff for?

Jakub Voracek R - 22 - 8 - 16 (-3)
Claude Giroux R - 22 - 7 - 15 (-4)
Brayden Schenn C - 21 - 6 - 12 (+4)
Wayne Simmonds R 19 - 8 - 8 (-1)

Kimmo Timonen D 22 - 2 - 11 (+1)
Luke Schenn D 22 - 2 - 4 - 6 (+5)

Defensemen like Buff are few and far between, so if you are going to trade him, you had better get serious quality for him in return. As well, you have to look at how depleted your defensive core already is. And if the Jets were serious about trading Buff, why just deal with the Flyers... shop him around the whole league if that's the case.

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02-28-2013, 12:08 PM
  #118
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love HFBoards but if I could take a flamethrower to one section it would be:

Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk


It always seems to degenerate into two sides who overvalue their own assets and can't come to an agreement so they just insult each other until it dies a slow ugly death.........lather, rinse, repeat.


I will drop by out of curiosity or to clear up a misconception about where one of our players value may lie IMHO and now and then you get some solid posts but more often than not

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02-28-2013, 12:15 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by ps241 View Post
love HFBoards but if I could take a flamethrower to one section it would be:

Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk


It always seems to degenerate into two sides who overvalue their own assets and can't come to an agreement so they just insult each other until it dies a slow ugly death.........lather, rinse, repeat.


I will drop by out of curiosity or to clear up a misconception about where one of our players value may lie IMHO and now and then you get some solid posts but more often than not
totally agree

the fan love insults my logic/stats minded focus, and the obsession with the future as opposed to "right now" is insane. By estimation there are only three or four teams in the league trying to win now, and everyone else "needs their youth". Also, a 22 yearold player who hasn't played in teh NHL but was a high draft pick = still a great prospect, lots of upside. A 23 yearold whose played 2 years as bottom six? grinder, garbage, bust.

Occasionally you'll find some level headed discussion, but often i find myself falling into the trap.... and EVERY draft pick has a good shot of becoming bottom 6. I don't think i've ever actually read a thread where someone said "chances are, this third round pick won't turn otu to be anything"...exceptions stop being exceptions when they are the norm. at that point, they are lies.

it truly is a pandora's box, best left closed

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02-28-2013, 12:27 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by vBurmi View Post
I'm not saying you're not entitled to your opinion. You misquoted me (there's a quote button btw) and then based an "opinion" off total stats without accounting for time missed due to injury. Buff has missed several games and it's early in the season, of course he's not leading d-men in scoring. By your logic Crosby sucks because he had 37 points last year.

Again, which defensemen in the league are better than Byfuglien offensively in your opinion? I'm curious to know. I gave my opinion, you merely refuted it by saying he's 32nd in scoring this season. I want to know where he ranks for you and who's ahead of him.
Karlsson (which you acknowledged), Campbell, Enstrom - off the top of my head. Of course, some of this is purely subjective opinion. And I would still say, that to be a top offensive or anything defenseman, you have to have decent defensive performance.
I respect your opinion; its not mine. I just don't consider it set in concrete that Buff is number two ODM.

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02-28-2013, 12:33 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Nothing Is New View Post
Karlsson (which you acknowledged), Campbell, Enstrom - off the top of my head. Of course, some of this is purely subjective opinion. And I would still say, that to be a top offensive or anything defenseman, you have to have decent defensive performance.
I respect your opinion; its not mine. I just don't consider it set in concrete that Buff is number two ODM.
I disagree with the bolded part.
Thats like saying to be a good three point shoot, you have to be able to play defence.

If we're talking about offensive abilities then their defensive ability is irrelevant. I would agree that to be considered top overall defenseman you need defensive ability.
But the discussion was about where buff ranks offensively.

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02-28-2013, 12:42 PM
  #122
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I disagree with the bolded part.
Thats like saying to be a good three point shoot, you have to be able to play defence.

If we're talking about offensive abilities then their defensive ability is irrelevant. I would agree that to be considered top overall defenseman you need defensive ability.
But the discussion was about where buff ranks offensively.
Classic "Moving the goalposts"

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02-28-2013, 12:45 PM
  #123
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Ya, ps241, discussing potential player trades on a forum like this can be a frustrating thing.

GMs, like fans, have their own rating or evaluation on players, but are always trying to get more value for their player in a trade. Negotiation should be the fun part, but its based all on perception which seems to be quite varied.

Buff, like a few of our beloved Jets, is a guy that can have a wide 'value' range depending on who you talk or listen to. IF Chevy moves him, he would try to maximize that value, obviously.

But, I'm pretty sure the Jets would move him if the 'value' returning was 'right' for them. Imo, he wouldn't be an untouchable, contrary to what many suggest, but I also believe he isn't being shopped, either. Which means if a team like the Flyers want him, they'll have to pay a lot to get him.

Now the 'payment' suggestions on these boards may be a bit wonky, but it all depends on how badly the flyers want him. They tend to not overpay, so I don't think we should be holding our breath on a deal happening soon, if at all.

When Trouba arrives, and then proves he can play big minutes in an effective top 4 role, that's when I see the jets moving Buff.

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02-28-2013, 12:53 PM
  #124
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Well I've been thread-banned from the Trade Rumors thread on this.

Buff should be someone we consider "untouchable" from the viewpoint that he's a key piece to this teams success. Try to entertain an actual discussion on his value though without using that word and suddenly he becomes available for scraps. A second-line winger and third-line center for the Flyers can be untouchable but a defenseman who plays 25 minutes a night and is the main catalyst of the offense (both PP and even strength) is junk .

Also, apparently he has less value than Jack Johnson and he was bad defensively in Chicago

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02-28-2013, 01:44 PM
  #125
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From what I hear from Chevy and, at times, Noel when discussing Buff, Buff just doesn't seem to fit their idea of how a dman plays or fits within their system. That said, I don't think Buff fits in any system. But that's what endears him to most fans and frustrates coaches. But coaches will take the good with the bad. A 'tamer' Buff is much less dynamic and impacts the game far less, but would appear to fit their system better. Noel has tried to have him 'work within parameters', but that's a hard thing to manage.

Imo, Bogo and Trouba (eventually) fit the Jets d model much closer, and that's why I see them more 'untouchable' than Buff. And if the Jets draft another bluechip d prospect, that only increases the odds Buff is moved, imo.

TNSE is a loyal bunch. Imo, they'll stick by him, until they have seen enough of him (his style) or have a suitable replacement.

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