HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Notices

Chris Kreider

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-28-2013, 12:15 PM
  #226
Drewbackatu*
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,048
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
And, then break down which zone Kreider has spent the bulk of his shifts.

Playing on the 3rd-4th lines with guys like Boyle, Pyatt, Asham, Powe, Halpern, Mashinter majority of the time, and they've spent a lot of time in the neutral zone struggling to gain the zone. And the defensive zone, being pinned.

So, yes, shots on goal will decrease.

I know it's hard for some ^^^^ to grasp deeper concepts and break downs of the game. Things aren't as cut and dry.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/glossary.php

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rati...0&sortdir=DESC

There are only 6 forwards on the roster who average being on the ice for more goals for per 20 minutes.

Kreider is on the ice for the LEAST amount of opponent goals for per 20 minutes

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rati...0&sortdir=DESC

Most neutral zone faceoffs

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rati...T&sortdir=DESC

Not on the ice for many offensive zone faceoffs

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rati...T&sortdir=DESC

Quality of his linemates offense is bad.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rati...T&sortdir=DESC

Faces stiff quality of opponent defense

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rati...C&sortdir=DESC

Kreider hasn't been in the best position to succeed offensively. Not his linemates, not where he plays the bulk of his shifts (neutral and defensive zone).

He should be playing in a position where he can succeed. It would be easier to put him in one if Gaborik and Richards were doing their jobs offensively.

Kyle Palmieri is riding shot gun and being carried by Getzlaf and Perry.

Getzlaf and Perry are doing their job offensively. The team's leaders are doing their jobs. The coaching staff and the organization can allot a young player like Palmieri the opportunity to develop along side those top performers.

If Kreider were riding shotgun with Nash, he would be on the ice for more offensive zone faceoffs, he would be on the attack for more of his shifts, he would be able to go to the net and bang in some rebounds and deflections.

Player development.
Excellent post; everything is right on point. Tort's has more of a tough love policy with young players(actually all players) and I get concerned that his style may break the spirit and shake the confidence of a player like Kreider.

However, if we keep losing, Torts won't be around much longer anyway.

Drewbackatu* is offline  
Old
02-28-2013, 12:17 PM
  #227
JohnC
#FreeSteve
 
JohnC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 4,342
vCash: 500
He's a likely scratch tonight so it looks like he'll be back in CT for their game tomorrow

JohnC is offline  
Old
02-28-2013, 12:19 PM
  #228
Crease
Registered User
 
Crease's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,553
vCash: 500
I agree with SM here.

Kreider has played a certain way his entire life and it has gotten him to the NHL. When Torts let him do his thing during the playoffs last year, we all saw the results. Now Torts is asking him to change his style to fit the current system and well, it's not working out very well for anyone. So, what to do?

Crease is offline  
Old
02-28-2013, 12:21 PM
  #229
-31-
portnor, pls
 
-31-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,853
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crease View Post
I agree with SM here.

Kreider has played a certain way his entire life and it has gotten him to the NHL. When Torts let him do his thing during the playoffs last year, we all saw the results. Now Torts is asking him to change his style to fit the current system and well, it's not working out very well for anyone. So, what to do?
What has he asked him to do that's outside of his style?

__________________
Rangers Unlimited
-31- is offline  
Old
02-28-2013, 12:21 PM
  #230
Trxjw
Moderator
Bored.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 15,810
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Different players, play the game differently.

Kreider DOES need a player to open up space for him at this stage of his career. He isn't a puck possession player, which means he won't have control of the puck long enough to draw defenders to him in a way that Nash does.

Playing with the guys he has, and based on where he takes most of the faceoffs hes on the ice for, he won't get that space with them either.

Despite his size, he doesn't play like Nash or Jagr. Puck control isn't his game.
If he can't get to the net "at this stage of his career" then he doesn't belong in the NHL. I don't want him to play like someone else. I want him to prove that he can play, just like every other young kid who has stuck on the roster has proven. No other kid has been handed a prime spot with all-stars. He doesn't get special treatment nor should he.

He doesn't need to dominate a shift like Jagr or Nash. He needs to work harder WITHOUT the puck on his stick.

Trxjw is offline  
Old
02-28-2013, 12:23 PM
  #231
Stepanformayor*
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 581
vCash: 500
Krieder is out tonight for sure tonight!! Bickel will be on the forth line!!!!

Stepanformayor* is offline  
Old
02-28-2013, 12:25 PM
  #232
Trxjw
Moderator
Bored.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 15,810
vCash: 500
Stepan, McDonagh, Sauer, Hagelin, Anisimov, Callahan, and Del Zotto all managed to develop just fine under Tortorella. Not sure why his style of coaching is suddenly detrimental to young players. Maybe it's only for players whose last names start with K.

Trxjw is offline  
Old
02-28-2013, 12:27 PM
  #233
OverTheCap
Registered User
 
OverTheCap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,256
vCash: 500
Torts wants Kreider to be more assertive. That is hardly asking too much of him. Kreider simply hasn't been as engaged or involved as he should be - hopefully he will learn to take a little more initiative back in Hartford.

OverTheCap is offline  
Old
02-28-2013, 12:29 PM
  #234
Crease
Registered User
 
Crease's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,553
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
What has he asked him to do that's outside of his style?
Play out of the corners. Cycle. Kreider is a North-South guy. I don't recall him doing a lot of board work in NCAA.

Crease is offline  
Old
02-28-2013, 12:30 PM
  #235
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 15,193
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
What has he asked him to do that's outside of his style?
Well, he's being asked to hound the puck more like Hagelin and Callahan.

And again, it's not something he's very accustomed to.

It isn't as though he's defying his coach, either. Because in Montreal he was doing exactly what Tortorella asked. He was hounding the puck. Very well, too.

He has made the effort in changing his game, and has made the effort in covering his defensive assignments. He hasn't been a liability. 8 of his 11 games, no goals were scored while he was on the ice.

Look, if he isn't ready that's one thing. But while he IS here, he should be used in a way that will maximize his skills. It doesn't do him any good, or the team, to put him in a role that he is not excelling in.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline  
Old
02-28-2013, 12:30 PM
  #236
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 15,193
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crease View Post
Play out of the corners. Cycle. Kreider is a North-South guy. I don't recall him doing a lot of board work in NCAA.
Exactly.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline  
Old
02-28-2013, 12:37 PM
  #237
-31-
portnor, pls
 
-31-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,853
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crease View Post
Play out of the corners. Cycle. Kreider is a North-South guy. I don't recall him doing a lot of board work in NCAA.
What do they do in College in place of cycling?

He's going to be most effective on the rush, but he can't be just a fast break player.

-31- is offline  
Old
02-28-2013, 12:44 PM
  #238
Beacon
Sent to HF Minors
 
Beacon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 7,569
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amazing Kreiderman View Post
Tortorella doesn't give talents a lot of chances to redeem themselves.

This is flat out false.

2008-09: Girardi, Callahan and Dubinsky were sophomores, yet got very prominent roles on the team. Korps was introduced as the team's rookie.

2009-10: Del Zotto, Gilroy, Boyle and Anisimov make the team and given ample opportunity. Prust, a sophomore, is acquired and allowed to blossom.

2010-11: Stepan, Sauer, McDonagh all make the team.

2011-12: Hagelin and Stu Bickel make the team. Kreider given a chance to make the playoff squad.


Torts introduced 10 rookies to the NHL in the last 4 years, plus allowed several sophomores to take a step forward.

Besides PAP, who else failed to play for the Rangers who went on to prove himself as a competent NHLer elsewhere? Weise? But he is nothing to write home about. If anything, he's given too many opportunities for people who don't deserve it than the reverse.

That seems to be the case with Kreider, who needs to go down to the minors and prove himself a dominant player at the NHL level before getting called up again.

Beacon is offline  
Old
02-28-2013, 12:50 PM
  #239
Dagoon44
Registered User
 
Dagoon44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 4,840
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Dagoon44 Send a message via Yahoo to Dagoon44
sent down again !! really we can't score a f'ing goal and he is returned Fudge Shot darn it

Dagoon44 is offline  
Old
02-28-2013, 12:52 PM
  #240
Bardof425*
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,028
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stepanformayor View Post
Krieder is out tonight for sure tonight!! Bickel will be on the forth line!!!!
Which one?

Bardof425* is offline  
Old
02-28-2013, 01:15 PM
  #241
wr50l
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Country: Scotland
Posts: 176
vCash: 500
Kreider isn't NHL ready unfortunately. The way he has played in the AHL ... he wouldn't have gotten anywhere near the NHL roster if we had any depth whatsoever.

Frankly, I'd rather he went to the AHL and started scoring some goals, getting some power play time, whilst learning to become a two way player; as opposed to being on the Rangers team and learning to become a defence first player on a line that's solely intent on going +/- 0 for the season.

wr50l is offline  
Old
02-28-2013, 01:45 PM
  #242
HatTrick Swayze
Tomato Potato
 
HatTrick Swayze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 8,713
vCash: 500
Better this than benched.

Not overly thrilled with the "be Hagelin" coaching (what's next, Gabby be Callahan?) but it is what it is.

__________________
"Here we can see the agression of american people. They love fighting and guns. when they wont win they try to kill us all." -HalfOfFame
HatTrick Swayze is offline  
Old
02-28-2013, 01:51 PM
  #243
SwedishBullet62
Never go full torts.
 
SwedishBullet62's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 4,710
vCash: 500
good for him being sent down, go play the game and earn a call up, i look forward to him being back at the right time, hopefully when the teams playing well and torts has an ounce of patience in him to help teach and develop him.

SwedishBullet62 is online now  
Old
02-28-2013, 02:22 PM
  #244
we want cup
We do not Sow
 
we want cup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: New York City
Country: United States
Posts: 10,514
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
Better this than benched.

Not overly thrilled with the "be Hagelin" coaching (what's next, Gabby be Callahan?) but it is what it is.
I'm fine with it if "be Hagelin" means to use his speed and his body to be effective on the boards and bring the puck to the net.

Being good on the rush is nice and all, but if you're one-dimensional then you just aren't going to be that useful.

__________________

RANGERS =
we want cup is offline  
Old
02-28-2013, 02:24 PM
  #245
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 29,360
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
Better this than benched.

Not overly thrilled with the "be Hagelin" coaching (what's next, Gabby be Callahan?) but it is what it is.
I think it's fair. You're giving him another player to emulate in order be effective. Use your speed and keep things simple. The offense will come.

Gabby is basically a finished product. Kreider isn't.

__________________
SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline  
Old
02-28-2013, 02:26 PM
  #246
-31-
portnor, pls
 
-31-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,853
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
Better this than benched.

Not overly thrilled with the "be Hagelin" coaching (what's next, Gabby be Callahan?) but it is what it is.
He actually did tell Gaborik to emulate Hagelin in moving his feet.

It's not a big thing to ask, anyways.

-31- is offline  
Old
02-28-2013, 02:31 PM
  #247
Beacon
Sent to HF Minors
 
Beacon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 7,569
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beacon View Post
That seems to be the case with Kreider, who needs to go down to the minors and prove himself a dominant player at the NHL level before getting called up again.

I'm glad Slats is reading this forum and listens to me immediately upon me writing something here.

Beacon is offline  
Old
02-28-2013, 02:41 PM
  #248
pld459666
Registered User
 
pld459666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Danbury, CT
Country: United States
Posts: 15,291
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I think it's fair. You're giving him another player to emulate in order be effective. Use your speed and keep things simple. The offense will come.

Gabby is basically a finished product. Kreider isn't.
Don't know if that is actually true playing the system we are playing.

We have finished products that are struggling to generate offence, don't think a young kid is going to learn to generate offence under a coach that preaches such a defensive heavy scheme.

pld459666 is offline  
Old
02-28-2013, 02:44 PM
  #249
HatTrick Swayze
Tomato Potato
 
HatTrick Swayze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 8,713
vCash: 500
If motoring and engaging players the way Hagelin does were as simple as "watching him to learn how to do it" and "trying hard" every player in the league would be able to do what Hagelin does.

It often gets overlooked but top speed, acceleration, and motor are completely different skillsets. Hagelin has an elite, top of the world, motor and world class endurance to boot. Remember the stories of him walking onto the UM campus and crushing the stair races up the big house as a freshman? For all of Kreider's physical gifts, endurance has never been elite.

Kreider, even as far back as HS, has always been a "burst" player. Turing the switch to a constantly motoring player a la Hags and Cally is not something that you can just "do". Especially not when trying to learn a demanding system in your first year as a pro. It's insane, IMO.

HatTrick Swayze is offline  
Old
02-28-2013, 02:50 PM
  #250
RangerBoy
1994 FOREVER
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 31,005
vCash: 500
The Whale begin a stretch of 6 games in 10 days on Friday. Kreider needs to play.

RangerBoy is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:43 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.