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Old
04-22-2013, 01:45 AM
  #601
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Originally Posted by jBuds View Post

- biggest problem with him this year? or, in better form, what has been the biggest hindrance on him taking that next step towards becoming an effective, top-6 regular that seemed imminent this time last year?
Hard to say, really. He had a slow start to the season in the AHL and was battling through injuries. He started the season at the NHL level with an injured foot, and it showed.

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- I've certainly seen varying opinions of the relationship he has (or lacks) with Torts... understanding that Tortorella holds players to a certain standard, has any part of his 'sheltering' (for lack of a better term) been unjust/unfair/unwarranted?
Some people seem to not understand that, just because a teacher/mentor is hard on someone doesn't mean he doesn't want to see that person succeed. Tortorella had a love/hate relationship of sorts with Lecavalier and Prospal in Tampa. They both say that they became better players because of it. Recently, we've seen it with Del Zotto. A lot of people worried that Tortorella ruined him. He came back better than ever. The way that Kreider has been shipped back and forth between the AHL and NHL has been somewhat unfair to him, but that's not a Tortorella issue, as he had no choice with all the injuries and underwhelming roster depth situation. Torts said one of the reasons for making moves for Clowe and Brassard was because it allowed the team to send Kreider (and JT Miller) back to the AHL where they were better suited. Though I don't think anyone would call how Kreider has been handled ideal, the only people who insist on shoveling blame onto Tortorella or want to scream about him ruining Kreider are the people who hate Tortorella and are acting on confirmation bias.

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he's so young, very raw, oozes potential...has a rare combo of size, good speed, hands/puck skills, and a good shot... is this a hiccup/bump in the road that comes with development as a prospect (particularly that of the NCAA prospect ilk), or are you worried that he might not live up to lofty expectations in the form of being a top-6 certainty?
Is it just a hiccup or indicative of long-term problems? That's the million dollar question. As you know well I'm sure, no prospect is ever a guarantee. This was a very strange year for sure, between the lockout and lack of training camp and his injury issues and everything else. That being said, the same concerns were being floated about Kadri after he underwhelmed in his first couple of stints with the Leafs. Now look at him. We'll have a much better indication next season of where Kreider's career is heading but for now I'm not at all concerned.

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- what do you think about him regarding the intelligence aspect of the game? Safe to call him a moderately smart forward? Worse than that? Better than that? How's his knowledge of the game and the forward position?
Depends on what you mean by "smart." He doesn't have good vision. He's not exceptional in thinking the game by any means. But that's not where his value comes in. There are a lot of guys who have good foot speed but don't know how to use it; Kreider isn't one of those guys. He still has a lot of learning to do but he knows how to utilize his speed, goes to the right areas, and backchecks hard.

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04-22-2013, 06:10 PM
  #602
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Kreider has been hyped up for years to the point where we expected a 40 pt winger out the gate, and this was encouraged by his play in the playoffs. There seems to be this idea that he is still NHL ready and that he's just being held back, but this comes from nothing but speculation, and flies in the face of every scouting report ever given on him.

He's a fine toolset without the box. He's all over the place, and if he happens to find himself in the right situation, with the right time and space, he'll get it done, but he's unable to put all of this together it seems. We've seen improvement, and we've seen flashes of the player I, and it seems the rest of us, think he will be. But he's only 21, in his first year of professional hockey.

Right now, Kreider is one of the last things on Torts mind. We're in the middle of fighting tooth and nail for a playoff spot, and one of his most trusted defensive players just got injured out of the lineup. He wanted Kreider and Miller in the AHL playing top minutes, and they were, until he was forced to call a left wing up. It's clear Torts doesn't want him there yet, and I don't blame him. Defensive liabilities who don't contribute consistently are not an option this time of year.

10-15 games of diminished ice-time isn't going to "ruin" a prospect, especially when there's no AHL game for him to miss. He gets some more experience, more chances to earn Torts's trust, and hopefully gets to see some more playoffs, and make some god damn noise. But no coach is going to risk crippling his team to give the rookie a shot at proving himself 3 games before the playoffs with our position unsecured.

I know we all want to see this magnificent, Ranger-drafted American-born top-line left-wing power-forward come in and tear the ****ing league up, but that's not what we have right now, and we can't afford to try to force that.

So lets stop facepalming about Torts not playing the least experienced player in the line up more than a few minutes a night in the most important games we've played all season, k?

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04-22-2013, 06:32 PM
  #603
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Don't think Torts will scratch Kreider for Dorsett. Too many players who can take too many stupid penalties with Asham, Dorsett, Clowe.

Seems like this is Kreiders time to shine. He hasn't looked out of place yet, then again he didn't last time. If we're struggling to find goals he's the next logical person to shift around on a better line.

Pyatt seems to be getting the respect card. The team respects him and roots for him. He's not coming out of this lineup. Boyle doesn't look to be coming back soon. Asham seems like the logical replacement for Dorsett.

Then again. Logic and Torts...

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04-22-2013, 06:53 PM
  #604
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Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
Don't think Torts will scratch Kreider for Dorsett. Too many players who can take too many stupid penalties with Asham, Dorsett, Clowe.

Seems like this is Kreiders time to shine. He hasn't looked out of place yet, then again he didn't last time. If we're struggling to find goals he's the next logical person to shift around on a better line.

Pyatt seems to be getting the respect card. The team respects him and roots for him. He's not coming out of this lineup. Boyle doesn't look to be coming back soon. Asham seems like the logical replacement for Dorsett.

Then again. Logic and Torts...
I am fairly certain he will.

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04-22-2013, 07:04 PM
  #605
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Don't think Torts will scratch Kreider for Dorsett. Too many players who can take too many stupid penalties with Asham, Dorsett, Clowe.

Seems like this is Kreiders time to shine. He hasn't looked out of place yet, then again he didn't last time. If we're struggling to find goals he's the next logical person to shift around on a better line.

Pyatt seems to be getting the respect card. The team respects him and roots for him. He's not coming out of this lineup. Boyle doesn't look to be coming back soon. Asham seems like the logical replacement for Dorsett.

Then again. Logic and Torts...
Kreider is going to be in the press box once Boyle is back, and Dorsett's possible return will further solidify that (this season, at least). I don't think he's even played 10 minutes a game since his..whatever number return this is. If he does manage to get back in the lineup, I'm sure he'll be on a line with Boyle and Asham and still be expected to create offense.

And for everyone saying Anisimov benefited from playing on a line with Shelley/Prust: Going by that, Kreider should be glued to a line with guys like Clowe. On the flip side, not everyone is going to flourish while playing with offensive black holes.


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04-22-2013, 07:46 PM
  #606
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A full 82 game season would've benefited Kreider this year. No time for rookie experiments when we've been hanging on to 8th by the balls. I wanted to see him succeed this year but let's not act like there's no next year. Kreider still has a very important future with this team, he's not gonna "get run out of town only to light it up with another team"

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04-22-2013, 07:47 PM
  #607
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Originally Posted by jcman View Post
A full 82 game season would've benefited Kreider this year. No time for rookie experiments when we've been hanging on to 8th by the balls. I wanted to see him succeed this year but let's not act like there's no next year. Kreider still has a very important future with this team, he's not gonna "get run out of town only to light it up with another team"
This is an answer I can accept.

Unfortunately, as it stands right now, the thought of Chris Kreider is a lot better than the actual play of Chris Kreider for a lot of fans

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04-22-2013, 08:26 PM
  #608
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Originally Posted by jcman View Post
A full 82 game season would've benefited Kreider this year. No time for rookie experiments when we've been hanging on to 8th by the balls. I wanted to see him succeed this year but let's not act like there's no next year. Kreider still has a very important future with this team, he's not gonna "get run out of town only to light it up with another team"
No time or rookie experiments you say? What about JT Miller who never looked ready to be in the NHL. His positioning in defensive zone wouldn't cut it in the AHL and he must have averaged 6 turnovers a game. Plus its not like he was producing offensively. Kreider isn't getting a chance because Torts is a hypocrite. If he had treated MDZ the way he treats Kreider, MDZ would still be in the AHL.

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04-22-2013, 08:28 PM
  #609
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Originally Posted by Loto68 View Post
No time or rookie experiments you say? What about JT Miller who never looked ready to be in the NHL. His positioning in defensive zone wouldn't cut it in the AHL and he must have averaged 6 turnovers a game. Plus its not like he was producing offensively. Kreider isn't getting a chance because Torts is a hypocrite. If he had treated MDZ the way he treats Kreider, MDZ would still be in the AHL.
I never liked the JT experiment from the get go. But unfortunately, our center depth was horrible and he was one of our only options apparently

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04-22-2013, 09:24 PM
  #610
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Originally Posted by Loto68 View Post
No time or rookie experiments you say? What about JT Miller who never looked ready to be in the NHL. His positioning in defensive zone wouldn't cut it in the AHL and he must have averaged 6 turnovers a game. Plus its not like he was producing offensively. Kreider isn't getting a chance because Torts is a hypocrite. If he had treated MDZ the way he treats Kreider, MDZ would still be in the AHL.
his leash on kreider is much much shorter than others. and i dont think its entirely because of the shortened season. its obvious kreider isn't a torts favorite

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04-22-2013, 09:36 PM
  #611
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I swear if Torts runs Kredier out of town and he succeeds elsewhere...

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04-22-2013, 10:57 PM
  #612
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Very questionable to me whether Kreider is among our top 12 forwards at this point. FWIW he's had a very underwhelming season and it's not just Torts--he wasn't that great in Hartford either. Neither he nor Miller are good enough defensively at this point of their careers and this is not the time--trying to squeak into the playoffs for on the job training.

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04-22-2013, 11:04 PM
  #613
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Let's do what most Einsteins in here want and trade him for picks.

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04-23-2013, 12:55 AM
  #614
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Let's do what most Einsteins in here want and trade him for picks.
If Columbus is willing to give their 3 first round picks, I would do it!

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04-23-2013, 09:14 AM
  #615
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Let's do what most Einsteins in here want and trade him for picks.
Fortunately we're past the deadline so you don't have to worry about it.

Kreider is our best prospect. I wouldn't trade him unless we got a really big return. That being said he is not a developed player by any stretch of the imagination. He has things to work on. Focus, consistency, learning how to use his size better, more defensive awareness. Also needs to find chemistry with better players.

Chris has a bad tendency to start a season off slow and then some games he'll look really, really good and then he'll disappear in others. He also does not drive people when he hits them--often he bounces off of them and lands on his ass--this is not size, strength, skating--this is a technique issue. Defensive awareness is a problem with most young players--when your coach is comfortable using you to pk then you're getting there. Chris thinks too much at times causing his reaction to the play to often times be late and late on a play is death.

These are fixable things--mostly mental. This guy is still learning how to play. No training camp did not help and he struggled a lot--especially early--in Hartford. The Rangers should not and so far are not handing him a job just because he's their biggest and best blue chipper. IMO--nothing wrong with that approach. He needs to earn his job like anyone else. He needs to be a consistent and productive scoring threat from the first game of the season. He needs to work on other weaknesses and then he'll be ready. It might even be next year from day one--but he's not up to speed now.

Rangers have three lines right now able to score without Chris. Looking at the 4th Powe is a vet, defensively responsible, very good pk'er. He's not nearly as talented as Chris but he fits into a role the team needs. Asham is a hard nosed right winger who can grind--which is valuable in the playoffs. Dorsett also penalty kills and plays with a ton of edge and provides some offense. Boyle--size, face-offs, penalty killing. Pyatt is the one and only guy I'd really consider replaceable by Kreider. Right now he's putting up points playing with Richards though.

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04-23-2013, 09:36 AM
  #616
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Let's do what most Einsteins in here want and trade him for picks.
I havent seen one person say this. Looks like the epitome of a zany strawman argument right there.

Theres no reason to get rid of him, yet. Hes still young and teachable. But I dont know how a single person cant view this season as a disappointment for Kreider. This is a guy that everyone had penciled in as a top 6 LW, and hes barely been able to crack the lineup. And, unless you're fooling yourself and making excuses, a large part of the onus for not producing is on Chris Kreider.

Hes comes off as a player thats excelled through college almost solely on his physical attributes. Guess what, in the NHL, that doesnt separate you from the competition too much. He needs to learn the game...get smarter.

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04-23-2013, 01:10 PM
  #617
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.....
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I see the thread about him below, and I read through it... unfortunately for me, it didn't necessarily delve deep into the things that I wonder about him at the moment... I'm curious about him this year, on the whole, and then looking forward:

- biggest problem with him this year? or, in better form, what has been the biggest hindrance on him taking that next step towards becoming an effective, top-6 regular that seemed imminent this time last year?

- I've certainly seen varying opinions of the relationship he has (or lacks) with Torts... understanding that Tortorella holds players to a certain standard, has any part of his 'sheltering' (for lack of a better term) been unjust/unfair/unwarranted?
In a vacuum, separate and apart from Torts, CK is basically the same guy (who last year showed all that promise, along with a handful of mistakes, some subtle, some obvious like a throw away pass) you are remembering, with a bit of improvement from added experience. Though he did have some injury, including one to the leg and that may be a partial factor, he is still basically the same boatload of raw talent you don't waste.

But waste is what is happening.

In a construct compounded by the fact Kreider came directly from college last year, and due to the lockout apparently had a minimum of coordinated official instruction to prepare, Kreider showed up, and seemingly, instead of properly grading on a curve and allowing Kreider to be human and make mistakes and improve (which is what he did with JT Miller), he has made the golden boy the whipping boy.

I believe I am pushing but within boundaries for language of posts when I say: Torts, for this, kiss my ass.

I obviously can't and don't claim to truly know what is in CK's brain, as if, literally I were a mind reader. That disclaimer said, IMO, it appears that Chris is trying, but now instead of playing he is OVERLY thinking about everything before doing it. Of course every player, especially a professional, should be aware of the game and its aspects and not sleepwalk through them. Yes, dedication encourages an alertness. This is not the "thinking" to which I am referring. His brain, like other players, is wired for basic play, and should be making adjustments that are improvements in technique. I believe that analogy applies outside sports as well.

IMO, in an attempt to improve his technique, CK seems that much behind in the thought process, for fear of getting further in the dog house. In other words, there is an artificial delay Kreider is unintentionally creating as he attempts to do his job. That delay in a fast sport like hockey is enough to throw off timing and execution.

Torts deserves no special kudos for Miller or prior MDZ into making them better players. I am not saying his contribution was worthless. I am saying that whether it is Torts, or, to illustrate a point, Bobby Orr [agent for the Staals, I believe] demonstrating a technique, the key is that Del Zotto got the ice time to develop, and without Torts jumping in his head. In the case of MDZ, that was at Hartford. In the case of Miller, it was initially at Rangers, 'cause they were desperate for help at C, then when they got pivot help, they elected to give Miller more minutes. I'm ok with that. (I was proven correct, btw, that Miller, while in need of more seasoning, was good enough, and had physically developed enough, to play here. This is something that was a point of disagreement on the Ranger forum, and I was largely by myself on this.)

Such is not the case with Kreider. Kreider already has all the physical gifts he needs to play at NHL level. What he needs is the equivalent of pro experience Miller got, at minimum probably more, which is getting; and one other important thing. He needs to get Torts out of his mind.

In a construct where one or the other is going to bend, buckle and break, it should be Torts. Kreider should go where his development is best. That could, at the moment, be long stretches in AHL. But once here in the NHL, he doesn't need either berating or coddling by Torts or any other coach. He needs to play and improve at this level, just as at the AHL level.

It stands to logical reason that if we allow Kreider to be Kreider as in last year's playoffs, the good will outweigh the bad, and since he is motivated to improve, results will demonstrate progress over time and quickly.

But if as soon as he gets to the Rangers the spectre of Torts -- liminally, subliminally or otherwise --- gets to him, it is a huge and unnecessary obstacle for Kreider to overcome.

Hopefully this will all be moot going forward for two reasons.

As applies to Kreider, whatever happens this season, there will be no NHL-NHLPA restriction, so while he should take a few weeks off and not burnout, every thing he needs to focus on to improve, is an exercise he can undertake with specialized instruction. CK has had success pre-NHL and I believe has demonstrated in last year's playoffs had shown enough skill AND enough hockey sense to succeed here. I agree he will succeed better with more work which he needs, but he will succeed.

As applies to Torts, hopefully he will be gone.
Yes, we have suddenly scored a lot of goals the last couple of games, cause except for the odd shift, Torts has abandoned the six goalie excessive shotblocking idiocy he has been preaching since day 1. So at the moment, the Rangers are doing well not by using the Torts system, but by NOT using the Torts system, so to speak.

Another question is if we make the playoffs, how far do we go?
The acid test that Torts system is over-hyped is that even last year, with minimum of injury, and more breaks than not, we were too impotent at the end. We could not put opponents away, and we were completely and totally too exhausted for last year's playoffs. I applaud them for even showing up and making an effort vs. Jersey. Lundqvist, in particular, already must be tired, if not exhausted.

Of course, while no one is saying let Hank be left out to dry, if we played a more offense oriented system and did less shot blocking to begin with, one which sustained less damage, one which left us less out of position, and more importantly, one which left us less exhausted to begin with, we arguably would have done better.

The Rangers will win when they have the horses and can execute better than the opposition. They are getting more and better horses. Miller will be better next year, hopefully Kreider will appreciably be so as well. I'm looking forward to Fast(h), Lindberg and at least a cup of coffee with McIlrath next year. That, plus what remains to be seen from Slats, will help.

But while Torts can morph into whatever, he may be steering the ship, but if it is not his failed system which he has specifically hung his hat on, then the Torts system is proven to not be the winning strategy. Hopefully Slats and Dolan are listening.

In any event, rather than trade Kreider for less than optimal value, I assume in any case Torts will NOT be allowed to further ruin Kreider. The assurance that is the case regardless of whether or not Torts is on the bench may be enough for Kreider to get Torts out of his head, and that could make the difference. But if not, then I'd rather see Kreider stay and Torts go.


Quote:
- he's so young, very raw, oozes potential...has a rare combo of size, good speed, hands/puck skills, and a good shot... is this a hiccup/bump in the road that comes with development as a prospect (particularly that of the NCAA prospect ilk), or are you worried that he might not live up to lofty expectations in the form of being a top-6 certainty?
I confident that barring injury he will be another Dave Keon at minimum in terms of a player of exceptional speed putting it to good use, even though he is being converted from C to LW (another adjustment). If Kreider can harness the shot he has shown to us in glimpses, he could be a special LW.

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- what do you think about him regarding the intelligence aspect of the game? Safe to call him a moderately smart forward? Worse than that? Better than that? How's his knowledge of the game and the forward position?
As explained above, he obviously has more to learn. I don't think he has a learning disability. I think it is difficult when anybody is in your face. Once that artificial barrier is offset or removed, slowly but surely, IMO Kreider will thrive.


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Unfortunately, the shortened season and condensed schedule hasn't allowed me the normal routine I've had every year I can remember watching hockey to keep my finger on the proverbial pulse of the Blueshirts as my "default second team" being in the suburbs. I ask out of sheer curiosity and lack of ability to dissect as I would in a normal season.
I don't speak for anyone other than myself here, but for my part, your thoughtful and cordial inquiry was well written and appreciated.

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Thanks in advance, all, and I'll be pulling for you come May.

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You are welcome, thanks for your support of Rangers w/Sabres out atm.


Last edited by bernmeister: 04-23-2013 at 07:59 PM. Reason: typo
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04-23-2013, 01:12 PM
  #618
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The guy is 21/22 yrs old. Not every player is going to come into the league at 21 and start playing like an NHLer. Callahan's 21/22 yr old season, he played in Hartford for 60 games. There's a reason why HF gives players until they're 24 before they decide a guy is no longer a prospect.

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04-23-2013, 01:37 PM
  #619
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I for one expected him to come in very motivated and EARN a spot in the lineup. He didn't do that and honestly have me the impression that he'd been reading how awesome he was on HF all summer and didn't need to try.

The foot injury at the beginning of the season seemed like a convenient excuse for his fans to rally behind. He didn't seem injured to me, he seemed lazy and lethargic.

He has a nice skill set and seems like a good kid, I want him to succeed here, right now that's all on him.

Torts wants him to chase down some pucks and throw some hits, big deal! Heaven forbid he has to do something like that to earn more time. If Kreider got pissed and had ONE game where he just went out there and hit everything that moved and chased down pucks and forced turnovers with his speed he'd get more ice time.

His hockey IQ is poor, he's not a smart player, lucky for him he doesn't have to be. He just needs to work hard and get open.

Reminds me of Dubinsky as far as attitude goes, Dubinsky on the 1st line gave a solid effort for long stretches, on the 2nd line the solid effort wasn't as prominent. When on the 3rd line it was even less so. Basically he played down to his role instead of trying to play up. Until he got pissed and wanted a change, then he'd have a really solid game.

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04-23-2013, 01:43 PM
  #620
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^ What Kreider reminds me of.

He's just so unsure of himself out there.

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04-23-2013, 01:47 PM
  #621
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Kreider has been hyped up for years to the point where we expected a 40 pt winger out the gate, and this was encouraged by his play in the playoffs. There seems to be this idea that he is still NHL ready and that he's just being held back, but this comes from nothing but speculation, and flies in the face of every scouting report ever given on him.

He's a fine toolset without the box. He's all over the place, and if he happens to find himself in the right situation, with the right time and space, he'll get it done, but he's unable to put all of this together it seems. We've seen improvement, and we've seen flashes of the player I, and it seems the rest of us, think he will be. But he's only 21, in his first year of professional hockey.

Right now, Kreider is one of the last things on Torts mind. We're in the middle of fighting tooth and nail for a playoff spot, and one of his most trusted defensive players just got injured out of the lineup. He wanted Kreider and Miller in the AHL playing top minutes, and they were, until he was forced to call a left wing up. It's clear Torts doesn't want him there yet, and I don't blame him. Defensive liabilities who don't contribute consistently are not an option this time of year.

10-15 games of diminished ice-time isn't going to "ruin" a prospect, especially when there's no AHL game for him to miss. He gets some more experience, more chances to earn Torts's trust, and hopefully gets to see some more playoffs, and make some god damn noise. But no coach is going to risk crippling his team to give the rookie a shot at proving himself 3 games before the playoffs with our position unsecured.

I know we all want to see this magnificent, Ranger-drafted American-born top-line left-wing power-forward come in and tear the ****ing league up, but that's not what we have right now, and we can't afford to try to force that.

So lets stop facepalming about Torts not playing the least experienced player in the line up more than a few minutes a night in the most important games we've played all season, k?
God damn this was a great post. That's pretty much /thread for me. There are tons of people with opinions, and then there are people like you who can intelligently analyze a situation and spell it out for the layman.

Good work, we need more of this.

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04-23-2013, 01:54 PM
  #622
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Originally Posted by Stasis View Post
God damn this was a great post. That's pretty much /thread for me. There are tons of people with opinions, and then there are people like you who can intelligently analyze a situation and spell it out for the layman.

Good work, we need more of this.
Agreed, great post. Earlier in the year my big problem with not playing Kreider was that our offense was stagnated. Right now we are playing great and can't afford to have a guy like him out there for significant minutes per night.

If Kreider wants to be a good player, he will be. Based on what I've read, it seems he kind of glided into the year and expected to be on the opening night roster, because of his performance last playoffs. Two things are wrong with that, 1) he's never proven himself at a high level consistently 2) that **** is not tolerated on the Rangers anymore.

I think Torts is fine with him, but wants him to learn to be a professional first and foremost. Del Zotto had the same issues coming up. he had a hot first year then automatically figured he was locked on the team and had to eventually be sent back down. It helped mold him into the top 4, very good d-man he is right now.

There's a lot that goes on in your first years as a pro. Kreider stepped in **** last year and seems to have gotten somewhat of a big head. He'll be a great player for us for a long time, but just needs to do some learning both personally and professionally.

However, right now, with the team constructed as is, he's not going to, nor has he earned these important minutes.

FWIW, it does look like he's giving 100% every shift out there.

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04-23-2013, 02:01 PM
  #623
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Fortunately we're past the deadline so you don't have to worry about it.

Kreider is our best prospect. I wouldn't trade him unless we got a really big return. That being said he is not a developed player by any stretch of the imagination. He has things to work on. Focus, consistency, learning how to use his size better, more defensive awareness. Also needs to find chemistry with better players.

Chris has a bad tendency to start a season off slow and then some games he'll look really, really good and then he'll disappear in others. He also does not drive people when he hits them--often he bounces off of them and lands on his ass--this is not size, strength, skating--this is a technique issue. Defensive awareness is a problem with most young players--when your coach is comfortable using you to pk then you're getting there. Chris thinks too much at times causing his reaction to the play to often times be late and late on a play is death.

These are fixable things--mostly mental. This guy is still learning how to play. No training camp did not help and he struggled a lot--especially early--in Hartford. The Rangers should not and so far are not handing him a job just because he's their biggest and best blue chipper. IMO--nothing wrong with that approach. He needs to earn his job like anyone else. He needs to be a consistent and productive scoring threat from the first game of the season. He needs to work on other weaknesses and then he'll be ready. It might even be next year from day one--but he's not up to speed now.
Rangers have three lines right now able to score without Chris. Looking at the 4th Powe is a vet, defensively responsible, very good pk'er. He's not nearly as talented as Chris but he fits into a role the team needs. Asham is a hard nosed right winger who can grind--which is valuable in the playoffs. Dorsett also penalty kills and plays with a ton of edge and provides some offense. Boyle--size, face-offs, penalty killing. Pyatt is the one and only guy I'd really consider replaceable by Kreider. Right now he's putting up points playing with Richards though.
maybe Kreider wasnt ready for the pro game and should have stayed in college... Derek Stepan also was in college and came straight to the NHL at the age of 20 as a center and didnt struggle as much as Kreider is now... maybe the Rangers pressure rushed Kreider to sign the contract to make the NHL quicker... maybe another year in school could have helped Kreider Carl Hagelin also came into the NHL with little time in the AHL and also straight from college and was a bit older...

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04-23-2013, 02:03 PM
  #624
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Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
maybe Kreider wasnt ready for the pro game and should have stayed in college... Derek Stepan also was in college and came straight to the NHL at the age of 20 as a center and didnt struggle as much as Kreider is now... maybe the Rangers pressure rushed Kreider to sign the contract to make the NHL quicker... maybe another year in school could have helped Kreider Carl Hagelin also came into the NHL with little time in the AHL and also straight from college and was a bit older...
Derek Stepan is an incredibly smart hockey player and Chris Kreider is a dumb one by NHL standards. I think that had a ton to do with it.

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04-23-2013, 03:03 PM
  #625
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I think there's a pretty wide gap between Tortorella's opinion of Kreider and where he is in his development, and that of the people who are controlling the roster moves. My issue lies less with Tortorella giving him 4 minutes of ice, but in the fact that the organization seems content with calling him up to play 4 minutes a night. If you want a guy who can play on the 4th line for under 7 minutes per game, do we not have more suitable options than Kreider? Especially considering the kid seemed to finally be putting a bit of a streak together before his umpteenth call-up.

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