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Old
05-14-2013, 10:08 AM
  #826
schabadoo
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Originally Posted by poeman View Post
and thats why I ****ing said to bring Kreider into the fold after game 5...He changes the dynamic in a series
He also gave up a breakaway on one of his first shifts with another defensive lapse.

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05-14-2013, 10:08 AM
  #827
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Yeah for sure!

I was seriously really worried for him during like the last 8 games he played of the regular season. Maybe I missed something, but I can't remember that he made even one good play during those games. Sure, he didn't play much etc. But with a kid you want the downside to be bad plays next to good plays, not invisible play. That's a really bad sign normally.

But last night, Kreider had atleast 3 plays that I would characterize as "good" looking.
I think he made a couple good plays previously, but his real problem was being able to string together enough plays to make up a good shift. Last night he was finally to not only make enough good plays on one shift to have a good shift, he had several good shifts throughout the night. Hopefully he can build off of last night and continue to move forward.

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05-14-2013, 10:33 AM
  #828
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Lundqvist is there to cover any mistakes. You can't play it so safe where the players are afraid to make mistakes. Brian Leetch never would have played if that was the case. Thankfully Michel Bergeron encouraged Leetch to go on every chance. Create. Make something happen. Michel would tell Leetch. "We need you Brian". When the Rangers needed offense. "We need you Brian".

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05-14-2013, 10:45 AM
  #829
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Kreider is in the same position that Zuccarello was the last two seasons: diamond in the rough, needs time and trust, and it'll pay back in dividends

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05-14-2013, 12:17 PM
  #830
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Good progress from Chris last night. Hope he can keep it up. We're going to need him to help wear down a Boston defense that's already pretty banged up.
Agreed^. They need more, not less minutes with Kreider, regardless of whether or not Clowe is playing.

Also, since we are not experimenting at the moment w/CK at C, and since Miller is not playing in any event (resting his wrists), we cannot have a superfly line of Hags Kreider Miller and Callahan; but I gotta think CK w/ Cally and maybe Brassard would work.

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05-14-2013, 12:49 PM
  #831
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Agreed^. They need more, not less minutes with Kreider, regardless of whether or not Clowe is playing.

Also, since we are not experimenting at the moment w/CK at C, and since Miller is not playing in any event (resting his wrists), we cannot have a superfly line of Hags Kreider Miller and Callahan; but I gotta think CK w/ Cally and maybe Brassard would work.
Kreider hasn't shown enough yet to warrant being on a line with our most dynamic center.

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05-14-2013, 12:58 PM
  #832
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Meh. I feel like the bar is being lowered significantly due to the poor season hes had

If/when Clowe comes back, he'll be the first one to take a seat.

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05-14-2013, 01:27 PM
  #833
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I would love to see Kreider play a bit with Brassard, He would really benefit from the way Brassard creates space and then receive his crisp passes. Those two I could see having great chemistry, then bring in Zucc and you might have one of the most deadly seconds lines in the NHL

Nash-Stepan-Callahan
Kreider-Brassard-Zuccarello
Hagelin-Richards- Boyle(Clowe when hes healthy)
Dorsett-Asham/Boyle-Pyatt

Mcdonagh-Girardi
Staal-Moore
Del Zotto-Stralman

Eminger extra/fillin D Man

Lundqvist
Biron

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Old
05-14-2013, 01:32 PM
  #834
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Originally Posted by Gabotrick View Post
I would love to see Kreider play a bit with Brassard, He would really benefit from the way Brassard creates space and then receive his crisp passes. Those two I could see having great chemistry, then bring in Zucc and you might have one of the most deadly seconds lines in the NHL

Nash-Stepan-Callahan
Kreider-Brassard-Zuccarello
Hagelin-Richards- Boyle(Clowe when hes healthy)
Dorsett-Asham/Boyle-Pyatt

Mcdonagh-Girardi
Staal-Moore
Del Zotto-Stralman

Eminger extra/fillin D Man

Lundqvist
Biron
Instead of that line bringing up the play of Chris Kreider, I think its more likely Kreider brings down their play. So, no thanks.

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05-14-2013, 03:36 PM
  #835
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Instead of that line bringing up the play of Chris Kreider, I think its more likely Kreider brings down their play. So, no thanks.
Of course because kreider is a bust right?

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05-14-2013, 03:41 PM
  #836
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of course because kreider is a bust right?
no one says he is a bust, but he is not nhl caliber right now. Of course that could change in the future if he finds more consistency in his game.

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05-14-2013, 03:44 PM
  #837
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Yeah please don't touch Zucc-Brassard-Nash. Please. Actually don't touch any of the lines, until Clowe is ready.

Ugh, it would be such a huge boost to all of the sudden have Kreider playing like we all hoped he would. Not getting my hopes up, though.


Last edited by Aufheben: 05-14-2013 at 03:53 PM.
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05-14-2013, 03:47 PM
  #838
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no one says he is a bust, but he is not nhl caliber right now. Of course that could change in the future if he finds more consistency in his game.
i agree with that opinion. I still think he has a lot to learn. But the kid is gonna be good. Last night you see what he bring with his speed. I understand his defense need work but he is never gonna be a defensive stopper he is an offensive talent

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05-14-2013, 03:53 PM
  #839
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Originally Posted by NYRangers723 View Post
Of course because kreider is a bust right?
Nope.

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05-14-2013, 05:50 PM
  #840
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On what basis is Kreider not NHL caliber right now? Making the occasional defensive mistake doesn't automatically render a player not NHL caliber. All that means is that you need to know when and when not to use him. Giving him the occasional even strength shift plus some powerplay time could help us out immensely.

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05-14-2013, 06:27 PM
  #841
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Originally Posted by Zil View Post
On what basis is Kreider not NHL caliber right now? Making the occasional defensive mistake doesn't automatically render a player not NHL caliber. All that means is that you need to know when and when not to use him. Giving him the occasional even strength shift plus some powerplay time could help us out immensely.
The Kershaw scale, which is a derivative of the Corsi rating.

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05-14-2013, 06:36 PM
  #842
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Originally Posted by Zil View Post
On what basis is Kreider not NHL caliber right now? Making the occasional defensive mistake doesn't automatically render a player not NHL caliber.
No, it doesn't. When you mix it with little offensive contributions though...

I thought he played a strong game yesterday, though.

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05-14-2013, 06:50 PM
  #843
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Lundqvist is there to cover any mistakes. You can't play it so safe where the players are afraid to make mistakes. Brian Leetch never would have played if that was the case. Thankfully Michel Bergeron encouraged Leetch to go on every chance. Create. Make something happen. Michel would tell Leetch. "We need you Brian". When the Rangers needed offense. "We need you Brian".
Exactly. There's no positive reinforcement with Kreider. It's just, "I don't trust him", "These situations are too important to put him out there", and "he needs to learn how to be a pro".

Regardless of whether or not anyone thinks that's the proper stance anyone who has ever played anything before knows that type of mentality coming from your coach does nothing but kill your confidence.

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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Meh. I feel like the bar is being lowered significantly due to the poor season hes had

If/when Clowe comes back, he'll be the first one to take a seat.
He will definitely be the first one to take a seat because Torts doesn't trust him.

It's infuriating seeing a player with so much talent not get a chance to grow and learn. If Torts would have done this in the regular season there's a chance he's a bigger contributor right now. Instead we have a valuable asset that does nothing because he's not given an opportunity to, and when he does he gets 3 shifts and has no confidence.

The whole situation has been so fouled up. Torts just talking about not wanting to mess with his development. Meanwhile all he's done is mess with his development.


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Originally Posted by anofsti View Post
Kreider is in the same position that Zuccarello was the last two seasons: diamond in the rough, needs time and trust, and it'll pay back in dividends
Definitely. And what did Zuccarello say a few weeks ago about why this has been different this time around?

“I feel more confident on the ice,” Zuccarello told The Post yesterday before the Rangers embarked on a three-game trip that commences tonight in Pittsburgh. “The last time I was here I was way too worried about what would happen if I made a mistake.

“Confidence is a big part for every player. All the best players have it. If I want to play here, that’s very important for me. I have to play my best hockey every night.”


That's what happens when your coach has no confidence in you and doesn't play you.

This year? Torts has given Zuccarello PP time (he deserves more since he's the best guy we have), and played him in all situations. How many times do we see Zuke on the ice late in games? Last year that would never happen.

What's the difference between last year and this year? Torts must have been coaching him while he was in the KHL...teaching him how to be a pro....not.

He's been trusted. And he's played better because of it.

The same would likely happen with Kreider if he ever got a chance.

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05-15-2013, 11:49 AM
  #844
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I'm surprised you guys are praising Kreider so much in here considering how terrible of a defensive mistake he made in game 6. It was so bad that the announcers took their time out during break to point it out and even use markers.

I'd like to see JT Miller get a shot over Kreider. I feel like Miller showed the ability to make less mistakes, and similar offensive ability.

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05-15-2013, 11:58 AM
  #845
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Originally Posted by Bobby Bruce View Post

It's infuriating seeing a player with so much talent not get a chance to grow and learn. If Torts would have done this in the regular season there's a chance he's a bigger contributor right now. Instead we have a valuable asset that does nothing because he's not given an opportunity to, and when he does he gets 3 shifts and has no confidence.

The whole situation has been so fouled up. Torts just talking about not wanting to mess with his development. Meanwhile all he's done is mess with his development.
This narrative is a nice story, unfortunately it just simply isnt true. Kreider was given plenty of opportunities throughout the season -- the major reason he hasnt found a consistent spot in the lineup isnt John Tortorella, its Chris Kreider. He played timid and scared. He gave zero reason for Torts to promote him. JT Miller came up and made the same mistakes as Kreider -- but he played balls to the wall and much more aggressively than Kreider -- hence Miller got more minutes.

This sort of misguided argument is a microcosm of a large swath of the fanbase who refuses to put any onus on the player, and blames the coach for everything that goes wrong.

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05-15-2013, 12:14 PM
  #846
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i like that a player has to earn his spot. i don't see a problem with it at all. we all want kreider to be a star, but he just isn't. yet. so he needs to work and watch and think and practice and improve. fine. i'll assume the coaching staff and front office know more about it than i do. i'm looking forward to his development but i'm not gonna say he's being screwed or his development slowed...cuz i just don't know.

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05-15-2013, 12:35 PM
  #847
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
This narrative is a nice story, unfortunately it just simply isnt true. Kreider was given plenty of opportunities throughout the season -- the major reason he hasnt found a consistent spot in the lineup isnt John Tortorella, its Chris Kreider. He played timid and scared. He gave zero reason for Torts to promote him. JT Miller came up and made the same mistakes as Kreider -- but he played balls to the wall and much more aggressively than Kreider -- hence Miller got more minutes.

This sort of misguided argument is a microcosm of a large swath of the fanbase who refuses to put any onus on the player, and blames the coach for everything that goes wrong.
Kreider averaged 10:06 TOI this season and generated 19 shots on goal in 23 games. That is just entirely unacceptable for an offensive-minded player.

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05-15-2013, 12:41 PM
  #848
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Originally Posted by we want cup View Post
Kreider averaged 10:06 TOI this season and generated 19 shots on goal in 23 games. That is just entirely unacceptable for an offensive-minded player.
"...but but but, he was afraid to make a mistake"

So what? Thats an excuse now? JT Miller wasnt, and he got more minutes. The onus is on Kreider to play with some balls and emotion out there.

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05-15-2013, 12:50 PM
  #849
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
"...but but but, he was afraid to make a mistake"

So what? Thats an excuse now? JT Miller wasnt, and he got more minutes. The onus is on Kreider to play with some balls and emotion out there.
Good point. very good point.

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05-15-2013, 12:58 PM
  #850
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He's played well in his few shifts the past few games aside from his one bad defensive mistake. He's really brought up the play of our "4th" line. He's using his body more (he nailed someone last game) and had a few shots where I said to myself "oh **** that was close."

It's coming. Unfortunately he's not gonna get the ice time in the playoffs to do it on a shift-by-shift basis. Some of you people are underestimating how hard it is to make a difference when you're not playing a lot. It's hard to get into a groove.

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