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Should John Tortorella be fired?

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Old
02-27-2013, 06:09 PM
  #126
NYR1967
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Originally Posted by stan the caddy View Post
What's so different about this team? Same defense and goalie. We brought in a really good player that fits the system well. It's not like we have to change everything to accommodate Nash.
A lot of that shot blocking was done by Dubinsky and Prust and to a lesser extent, AA, Feds and Johnny Malkin. Having Nash, Gabby, Kreider, Steps, Richards, and Hags playing conservatively for fear of being benched is killing the offensive creativity on this team.

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02-27-2013, 06:59 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by NYR1967 View Post
A lot of that shot blocking was done by Dubinsky and Prust and to a lesser extent, AA, Feds and Johnny Malkin. Having Nash, Gabby, Kreider, Steps, Richards, and Hags playing conservatively for fear of being benched is killing the offensive creativity on this team.
Those guys were all on the team last year playing the SAME EXACT SYSTEM. Now all of a sudden the system is a huge problem?

On top of that, those guys don't get benched for being aggressive. They get benched for being lazy and not being in the right spots.

I love it, last year almost every Rangers fan was running Dubinsky out of town but now he's the important piece that we're missing.

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02-27-2013, 07:14 PM
  #128
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The Rangers are better than they were last year. The reason they're not winning is because of:

- Poor luck on the powerplay. Opposing goaltenders have, while shorthanded, posted a 0.913sv%. That means the Rangers have been shooting 8.7% at 5v4, and that's league average for 5v5. Last year the Rangers shot 11.9% at 5v4.

- A rough start for Lundqvist. He had an incredible 0.933sv% at even strength last year, but that's above his career average. He was likely to regress a bit, although not nearly as much as he has. So far this year he's at 0.921, which is well below his career average - essentially he's performed at the level of a league average goaltender, nothing special. The good news is we all know Lundqvist is much better than that... So I suspect he will indeed rebound strongly. As long as the Rangers are in a position to make the playoffs in the next 2 weeks I'm sure they'll have comfortable ride to home ice advantage.

Sometimes, your goalie gets a lot of these bounces:



...and sometimes he gets more of these:


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02-27-2013, 07:17 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by eklunds source View Post
The Rangers are better than they were last year. The reason they're not winning is because of:

- Poor luck on the powerplay. Opposing goaltenders have, while shorthanded, posted a 0.913sv%. That means the Rangers have been shooting 8.7% at 5v4, and that's league average for 5v5. Last year the Rangers shot 11.9% at 5v4.
The PP most certainly is not "poor luck". It's their own creation. No team is going to score on a high percentage of low chance shots, if any shots at all - the team's PP can barely maintain puck possession, let alone get quality shots.

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02-27-2013, 07:23 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
The PP most certainly is not "poor luck". It's their own creation. No team is going to score on a high percentage of low chance shots, if any shots at all - the team's PP can barely maintain puck possession, let alone get quality shots.
The PP has been a joke for awhile.

IMO, the reason why the team hasn't played well is all due to not being ready for the start of the season. The Rangers rely on constantly winning races to the puck and with the exception of Hags, they all look slower than usual. Hagelin had interest in playing in Sweden and he probably paid a little bit more attention to conditioning. I think the rest of the team just bought into all the hype and forgot how hard they had to work last year.

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02-27-2013, 07:31 PM
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stan the caddy View Post
Those guys were all on the team last year playing the SAME EXACT SYSTEM. Now all of a sudden the system is a huge problem?

On top of that, those guys don't get benched for being aggressive. They get benched for being lazy and not being in the right spots.

I love it, last year almost every Rangers fan was running Dubinsky out of town but now he's the important piece that we're missing.
Roster was turned over a lot. It hurts in this sorta stuff especially a short season.

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02-27-2013, 07:38 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Guess What View Post
Roster was turned over a lot. It hurts in this sorta stuff especially a short season.
The Rangers lost a few 3rd/4th liners and replaced them with 3rd/4th liners + Nash who's been the best forward for the Rangers. I wouldn't really consider that a huge concern.

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02-27-2013, 08:24 PM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stan the caddy View Post
Those guys were all on the team last year playing the SAME EXACT SYSTEM. Now all of a sudden the system is a huge problem?

On top of that, those guys don't get benched for being aggressive. They get benched for being lazy and not being in the right spots.

I love it, last year almost every Rangers fan was running Dubinsky out of town but now he's the important piece that we're missing.
If you go through my posts, you'll find that not only did I never want to run Dubi out of town, but I was also against the Nash trade.

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02-27-2013, 08:37 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by stan the caddy View Post
The Rangers lost a few 3rd/4th liners and replaced them with 3rd/4th liners + Nash who's been the best forward for the Rangers. I wouldn't really consider that a huge concern.
It's not huge but it's important. That's a chunk of the forwards right there and they need time, just like when Dubi, Arty, Prust, Boyle, etc. they got going. These ones haven't had much of a chance without being benched.

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02-27-2013, 08:50 PM
  #135
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So a year after getting the Rangers to the top of the Conference and into the Conference Finals... we are going to fire him because the team is 8-8-2, 18 games into a lockout shortened campaign where there was basically no training camp and the team suffered a ton of injuries.

Yea.. fire the guy. Are you serious?

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02-27-2013, 08:58 PM
  #136
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Torts' fate will be decided in his ability to adapt here with the roster he has. Not saying to abandon the "system" but it needs to be loosened a bit to allow for a bit more offense, even if only in-game and on the fly.

One thing that always bothers me is the collapsing defense and now seemingly any time the other team cycles in our zone we allow it to become a pseudo power play for them. Our wings and D form a box while the center chases, without any pressure being applied anywhere. All too often you see the puck going to the point and instead of pressuring to chip it out or force the D into a mistake, someone like Boyle will coast out there, hit the breaks and try and play goalie. WHY!??! You're a forawrd, not the goalie. You don't have to wait for their guy to shoot, you can apply pressure (and do so without making a mistake position wise).

It seems last year they hit a sweet spot for the bulk of the regular season with applying pressure in our d-zone and blocking shots. Now after all the hoopala made about our shotblocking in the playoffs our players seem to rely on it more. Instead of blocking shots when the opportunity presents itself, they seem to be going to shot blocking as the 1st option on defense, which simply is not a good strategy.

Shot blocking is incredibly effective when executed at the proper times, not taking themselves out of position and not being relied upon. It shouldn't be relied on ever, only used as a tool on D, the same way stick checks and poke checks are used. You can't sit back and wait for a player to make a move and rely on your poke check can you?

At this point I don't think it's all on Torts and his system, I think the players themselves are not executing it as well as they did last year and they hold some of the blame as well.

**For the record I don't think Torts will get fired, nor do I want him fired.

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02-27-2013, 09:45 PM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
The PP most certainly is not "poor luck". It's their own creation. No team is going to score on a high percentage of low chance shots, if any shots at all - the team's PP can barely maintain puck possession, let alone get quality shots.
I'm not saying the powerplay has been good - their shot rate is 27th in the league. It was 27th the year before too. But... the difference between a good powerplay and a bad powerplay is small compared to the difference in puck luck. A bad powerplay can put up exceptional results with just a lot of natural variation.

Last year Edmonton was 26th in the league at generating shots on the powerplay, yet they finished 3rd in "NHL ranking" at 20.6% because their shooting percentage was 2nd in the league and 4% higher than league average. Before someone says "EDM PP is elite. Hall Eberle RNH WHAT?!"... Other teams with a very high shooting percentage but poor shots/60 include the Maple Leafs, Islanders, and Predators.


The Rangers have 6 goals on 69 shots at 5v4. Saying a team shot 1% better sounds like a small difference, but 1% of 69 is 0.7 goals. If they had shot a "league average" (12.1%), they would have 8 or 9 goals.

Conversely, the Rangers have spent 100.7 minutes at 5v4. If they had the same 'unlucky' shooting percentage but had a "league average" shot rate of 48.6, they would have an extra 13 shots and a single goal.



TLDR - When the hockey gods drop the shooting percentage out from underneath you, all that is bad is exposed (the Rangers PP), and all that is good is questioned (Phil Kessel or Alex Semin's "heart"). When they pick someone or some team up with a run of great percentages, all that is bad is hidden (see: Minnesota, December last year) and all that is great is amazing (see: Los Angeles Kings playoff run).

Derek Zona explains things better than I do (opposite but equal phenomenon of powerplays overperforming)

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02-27-2013, 09:47 PM
  #138
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Yes, he should. But I REALLY hope he isn't fired.

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02-27-2013, 09:58 PM
  #139
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Man it sucks being a Rangers fan right now. At this point if they get in as the 8th seed I'll be happy.

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02-27-2013, 10:06 PM
  #140
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Trade AV for Tortorella?

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02-27-2013, 10:59 PM
  #141
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coach fonzie is reminding me of the jacques martin era in montreal...trying to play a system that doesn't fit the skill-set of his players. the Rags have a lot more offensive skill than torts is allowing them to show

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02-27-2013, 11:02 PM
  #142
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after last season's showing and 4 consecutive loses in a shortened condensed season? I doubt

If Cappy and Trotz weren't let go when the Isles and Preds each hit a skid I'd say Tortorella's job is secure

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02-28-2013, 09:05 AM
  #143
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It's way too late for that already. Rangers chance for cup is already gone for years. they will have serious cap problems next year and that nash deal didn't work for their benefit. Tortorella isn't a guy that can utilize talented players. you can't put guys like gaborik in leash, you give them system but let them have some freedom.

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02-28-2013, 09:54 AM
  #144
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Has this been posted yet?


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02-28-2013, 10:43 AM
  #145
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Originally Posted by KingWantsCup View Post
I can't imagine if my boss was like Torts. I'd want to kill myself every work day.
That says a lot more about you than it does Torts.

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02-28-2013, 11:16 AM
  #146
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It's way too late for that already. Rangers chance for cup is already gone for years. they will have serious cap problems next year and that nash deal didn't work for their benefit. Tortorella isn't a guy that can utilize talented players. you can't put guys like gaborik in leash, you give them system but let them have some freedom.
Huh? They can buy out Richards and Gaborik is FA after next season. They could easily free up a ton of cap space if needed. Also the only major FAs next year are Stepan, Hagelin, and McDonagh who probably won't be signed for too much coming off their ELCs. As of now the Rangers will have about $11M of cap space less signing those few players.

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02-28-2013, 11:46 AM
  #147
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Huh? They can buy out Richards and Gaborik is FA after next season. They could easily free up a ton of cap space if needed. Also the only major FAs next year are Stepan, Hagelin, and McDonagh who probably won't be signed for too much coming off their ELCs. As of now the Rangers will have about $11M of cap space less signing those few players.
You're answer to staying competitive is to buy out Richards and let Gaborik walk?

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02-28-2013, 12:01 PM
  #148
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I'm not sure if it's time, but coaches like Torts usually run their course with a team sooner or later. The rangers are a team that can sneak into the playoffs and then make some damage though, so shouldn't be panic mode just yet.

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02-28-2013, 11:48 PM
  #149
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Rangers are 6 points out of 1st in the division with two games in hand on the Pens and 29 games left.

Jesus christ can we wait until the last month of the season?

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03-01-2013, 12:56 AM
  #150
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I'll tell you what ...

Rangers hire Ruff

Sabres hire Tortorella

See who gets more blood from a stone

And the Rangers have a more talented (per position overall) stone

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