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Game 20 | Detroit Red Wings @ Los Angeles Kings | 10:00 PM EST | FS-D, NBCSN, TSN2

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Old
02-27-2013, 03:46 PM
  #101
VladTheImpaler
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Originally Posted by Auzzie19 View Post
Damn, Babcock must be nuts, Datsyuk playing with scrubs. Wings should def pick up Semin to get some production from that line. Dats might leave the NHL after his contract is up and wouldn't blame him with who he's given to play with.
When everyone is healthy, Datsyuk will likely be playing with Filppula and Bertuzzi but many posters have also questioned why Babcock hasn't put another dynamic forward on that line to play with Pav.

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02-27-2013, 03:47 PM
  #102
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Sorry the Ian White thing should not have been locked and should have its own thread. The comments on Mlive are ship his *** out of town kind of stuff. I know we need right handed d-man we all talk about it but they have to be good also. White hasn't been all that good especially without Cola for his brief couple games. In any event he shouldn't get a free pass because he is right handed. Glad they did this, but his comments made me angry cannot imagine how Babcock and Holland took those.

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Old
02-27-2013, 03:48 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by jaster View Post
Aside from Abdelkader doing nothing, it's hard to argue with the results. Hank's line has been good, and Dats and Cleary have produced together. I wouldn't mind seeing Tatar instead of Abs, but I also kinda see what Babs is doing. Those two lines are very different, which makes a little more difficult for the opposition to match up against.
Z has always seemed to have an easier time playing with any player he's been put on a line with. Remember back around '08 when Babcock would put guys with Z to get them going? I don't think it has anything to do with Datsyuk at all, but Datsyuk's history with meshing with linemates hasn't been great. He wasn't good with Shanahan (even though Shanny did score 40). He wasn't good with Hossa (even though Hossa did score 40). The entire season people complained they didn't work well together.

I'm not sure exactly what Datsyuk needs, but besides Z and Hull, I don't think it's been unanimous that Datsyuk has worked great with anyone else. People will say Hudler, but even so that's still one of the very few. I'm not sure what the deal is exactly, but I do agree Datsyuk needs players, I just don't think it necessarily needs to come at the expense of Z's line.

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Old
02-27-2013, 03:51 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
Not a tonne.
How many of Datsyuk's and Cleary's points come at even strength?
4 each in the past 4 games.


Quote:
Who cares if lines are different? That's what the third and fourth line are.
We are short some skill guys up front right now, so the strategy has to change. We don't have the personnel to run out two skilled forward lines. So you make one top line that revolves around skill, and another that revolves around size and hustle. Now the opposing coach has a harder time matching up, since he'll most likely have a preference of which of his lines/defense pairs are out there against each one of ours.


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You've got one of the best playmakers in the NHL over the last 20 years -- and you saddle him with garbage. That's dense-anyway you cut it.
Nah. I don't think there is one right way, and I'm not even saying Babcock's way is the best way. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't (who are any of us to say anyway?). I'm just saying that I kinda see his methodology, and I don't think it's a bad strategy. Furthermore, Datsyuk is unquestionably the best player on the team at creating offense all on his own, so if you're going to saddle someone with "garbage," it may as well be the player best suited to carrying that garbage while still smelling like a rose. After all, the goal is to win hockey games, not to make the best line you can around your best player just for the sake of it.

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Old
02-27-2013, 03:52 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
Agreed.
We need a really solid RD right away, IMO.

Trade Kindl or Quincey or White or CC.

I'd move any KQ or CC for Robidas or an older vet, as I don't see much future for either guy on the team.
I wouldn't be opposed to trading any of those guys for the right return. At least we're on the same page there

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Old
02-27-2013, 03:55 PM
  #106
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Holland had his chance to sign Semin on the cheap, blew that opportunity. About the most he would do now is "kick tires" if he was interested in signing Semin.

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02-27-2013, 03:55 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by jaster View Post
4 each in the past 4 games.
I think Cleary is pretty much done, he can get a small contract somewhere else when this season is over. But credit where credit is do, he has been a little better here lately. Still would ship him before a lot of people and I am scared to death he goes on a hot streak and gets a contract extension. Part of why I want Cleary gone is a 10 game hot streak could get us stuck with him.

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Old
02-27-2013, 03:56 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by TheFirebird View Post
Holland had his chance to sign Semin on the cheap, blew that opportunity. About the most he would do now is "kick tires" if he was interested in signing Semin.

About the only thing that would be practical that Holland might consign to is loading up on draft picks, considering that entry level players cost very little in terms of cap space. Considering that he wouldn't want to part ways with Cleary, for some reason or another, I doubt that he would trade a roster player for assets at this point. We'll likely either bring more middling assets in by trading picks that would be better saved, or release more players to waivers, or both.
Holland had a chance to control term. Semin makes more than Datsyuk, so what is this cheap stuff?

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02-27-2013, 03:56 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
Zetterberg, a center who loves to shoot, plays with two guys who love to shoot.
Datsyuk, a center who loves to pass, plays with table scraps.

Babcock is dense
Agreed. And poor Kindl has to play with Lashoff. Maybe he'll jump up into the play more?

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Old
02-27-2013, 03:58 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
Sorry the Ian White thing should not have been locked and should have its own thread. The comments on Mlive are ship his *** out of town kind of stuff. I know we need right handed d-man we all talk about it but they have to be good also. White hasn't been all that good especially without Cola for his brief couple games. In any event he shouldn't get a free pass because he is right handed. Glad they did this, but his comments made me angry cannot imagine how Babcock and Holland took those.
Not sure why that was locked, either.
That's a lineup decision that stands on its on as a topic, IMO

White is a character. It might have something to do with why he's been shipped around.

But I'm glad the Detroit media reported it. And I'm glad White said what he said if that's what he thinks.

This ain't the military

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Old
02-27-2013, 03:59 PM
  #111
jaster
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
Z has always seemed to have an easier time playing with any player he's been put on a line with. Remember back around '08 when Babcock would put guys with Z to get them going? I don't think it has anything to do with Datsyuk at all, but Datsyuk's history with meshing with linemates hasn't been great. He wasn't good with Shanahan (even though Shanny did score 40). He wasn't good with Hossa (even though Hossa did score 40). The entire season people complained they didn't work well together.

I'm not sure exactly what Datsyuk needs, but besides Z and Hull, I don't think it's been unanimous that Datsyuk has worked great with anyone else. People will say Hudler, but even so that's still one of the very few. I'm not sure what the deal is exactly, but I do agree Datsyuk needs players, I just don't think it necessarily needs to come at the expense of Z's line.
Yeah, that's a fair analysis of Dats. I think it goes hand-in-hand with my point about him also being the best player to create offense all by himself. I don't think Dats is in any way a selfish player or a bad linemate, I just think that for whatever reason (his natural style/coaching/environment) the guy developed to create things on his own. Self-dependent. Not extremely prone to clicking with others.

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Old
02-27-2013, 04:01 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
Holland had a chance to control term. Semin makes more than Datsyuk, so what is this cheap stuff?
Only saying that his value will have increased to the point where Holland would lose interest in trying to sign him. There was no way to know what kind of player Semin would prove to be this season, but for the term and salary he ended up signing for it would have been a relatively inexpensive boost to this team's offense for the season. Buy low, sell high is one of the mottoes of economics, but for some reason it seems at times that Holland plays it the other way around.

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Old
02-27-2013, 04:02 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
Holland had a chance to control term. Semin makes more than Datsyuk, so what is this cheap stuff?
I was all for Semin. But I'm not sure I can stomach that salary -- one year or not.

I'd prefer to get Zherdev out of Russia. Not as complete as Semin, but has skills that would complement Datsyuk well. But some tough/grittness on the LW and watch them sail.

There's my forward lineup for next year -- bye bye cleary, bert, sammy, eaves, Miller, etc

Franzen Zetterberg Brunner
Torres Datsyuk Zherdev
Nqyust Flip Tatar
Abdelkader Helm Tootoo

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Old
02-27-2013, 04:03 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
Not sure why that was locked, either.
That's a lineup decision that stands on its on as a topic, IMO

White is a character. It might have something to do with why he's been shipped around.

But I'm glad the Detroit media reported it. And I'm glad White said what he said if that's what he thinks.

This ain't the military
Agreed, but not many guys have spoken out like this and kept their winged wheel for long, it isn't a very good idea.

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Old
02-27-2013, 04:04 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
Holland spent a lot of time collecting complementary players over the years. But complementary players don't look good next to complementary players...
Bob, I believe you meant to use the word "complimentary," but it's okay, people use the wrong words all the time on this board.


It's not too soon for that one, right?

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Old
02-27-2013, 04:05 PM
  #116
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I was all for Semin. But I'm not sure I can stomach that salary -- one year or not.

I'd prefer to get Zherdev out of Russia. Not as complete as Semin, but has skills that would complement Datsyuk well. But some tough/grittness on the LW and watch them sail.

There's my forward lineup for next year -- bye bye cleary, bert, sammy, eaves, Miller, etc

Franzen Zetterberg Brunner
Torres Datsyuk Zherdev
Nqyust Flip Tatar
Abdelkader Helm Tootoo
I think you would remember I was with you on Semin. But that was in the 5 million range for me. No way would I pay him more than Datsyuk or even Zetterberg, optically it just looks bad.

Zherdev had a contract when you brought this up last off-season, so he was a no go, not sure about next year, thought he was signed through the Olympics.

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Old
02-27-2013, 04:06 PM
  #117
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I am not very happy with Whites comments.

Fair enaugh, he is meant to be frustrated about being a healthy scratch. Would be worrying if he werent frustrated and upset. I also dont expect him to understand the coaches decision, as I am quite surprised about it myself.

But whining in the media about it is unprofessionel. He should just shut up and let his frustration out in practice, showing Babcock there that he belongs in the lineup.

Of course he didnt play particulary bad, but he wasnt as solid as some other guys either, which would guarantee him a spot in the lineup.

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Old
02-27-2013, 04:07 PM
  #118
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Kronwall-Ericsson is the main pairing. So long as they are together and get solid ice time we should be in the best shape possible. Kronner has started to take off as far as offensive production goes and over the past three games the team has allowed 1.67 GAA at even strength.

White has been pretty mediocre or worse without Lidstrom as a partner. Nearly every d-man who played with Lidstrom saw their point totals and/or plus-minus improve dramatically. White simply hasn't stood out in the offensive zone and is making too many mistakes in the defensive zone.

Looking forward to seeing Smith out there.

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Old
02-27-2013, 04:08 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
Z has always seemed to have an easier time playing with any player he's been put on a line with. Remember back around '08 when Babcock would put guys with Z to get them going? I don't think it has anything to do with Datsyuk at all, but Datsyuk's history with meshing with linemates hasn't been great. He wasn't good with Shanahan (even though Shanny did score 40). He wasn't good with Hossa (even though Hossa did score 40). The entire season people complained they didn't work well together.

I'm not sure exactly what Datsyuk needs, but besides Z and Hull, I don't think it's been unanimous that Datsyuk has worked great with anyone else. People will say Hudler, but even so that's still one of the very few. I'm not sure what the deal is exactly, but I do agree Datsyuk needs players, I just don't think it necessarily needs to come at the expense of Z's line.
Datsyuk and Hossa were very good together. They weren't magic. But they were enormously effective until both got hurt in the playoffs.

What people complained about was taking apart the BEST LINE IN THE GAME

A line that's never recovered its chemistry since

There was no reason in the world you couldn't have gone with
Z-Datsyuk-Homer
Franzen-Flip-Hossa

This idea that there is Z's line and D's line is also really silly.

The point is, Datsyuk needs a player to shoot the puck. Brunner or Franzen -- one of them, should be on Datsyuk's line.

I'd prefer Brunner. Datsyuk set up brunner for great chances 2-3 times in those first few games.

Zetterberg is going to shoot a ton. Franzen will shoot a ton. Brunner a ton.

If you have Datsyuk out there with scrubs, you're really limiting your offense

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Old
02-27-2013, 04:10 PM
  #120
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Line-ups added to the OP. That's all you people get from me. I ain't no Shoalzie, ProPain, or FlashyG. Deal with it!

I had such high hopes when we drafted this kid. Maybee we should give him more playing time. What if we buy his contract out for 2.5 mil?

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Old
02-27-2013, 04:14 PM
  #121
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white has played fine this year

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Old
02-27-2013, 04:18 PM
  #122
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white has played fine this year
Agreed, which is why this "development" is baffling to say the least -- unless the return is really good or they're just clearing out space.

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02-27-2013, 04:22 PM
  #123
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i made the mistake of looking at mlive's comments and apparently white has been brutal

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Old
02-27-2013, 04:24 PM
  #124
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i made the mistake of looking at mlive's comments and apparently white has been brutal
Yeah, MLive comments are practically the equivalent to reading the stuff people put on the Red Wings Facebook after a loss.

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Old
02-27-2013, 04:27 PM
  #125
Z40
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I think Ian White has been one of our most steady defensemen. Obviously, he isn't producing offensively like last year, but defensively, he has been solid. It's kind of puzzling that he's being scratched. Is there something we don't know about going on behind the scenes?

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