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Appreciation for Tyler Seguin's DEFENSIVE game.

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02-27-2013, 08:37 AM
  #1
Bill Ladd
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Appreciation for Tyler Seguin's DEFENSIVE game.

Seguin has been fantastic defensively this season, especially lately.

-He's the hardest backchecker on his line and I've seen him frequently blow past both Bergeron and Marchand on the backcheck.

-As the first guy back, he's often taken up the role of the center in the Dzone and has made some goal saving plays. Last night he picked off a pass from Tavares to Moulson right at the top of the crease. Against the Panthers he pulled a puck off the goal line.

-I'd say he's forced more neutral zone turnovers with his positioning and quick stick work than anybody on the team. He had 2 against the Isles, 1 against Florida. Seems every game, somebody tries to come up his side of the ice and he's able to pick their pocket or pick off a pass while backing up. (He's got 8 takeaways on the season.)

-After a slow start, he's really committing to board battles and I've even seen him pushing guys off the puck along the walls. Against the Habs he practically threw Plekanec. He also has 11 hits on the season (more than Bergeron, Marchand, Krejci, Paille and Peverley).

-A great example of Seguin's 200ft game came on McQuaid's goal against the Isles: Seguin is the first guy back, hounding Tavares. When JT is about to pull the trigger, Seguin gives him a shove that throws him off balance (and tumbling into the corner) and his shot goes way wide. Seguin turns the net, flies up the middle of the ice, gets to the dump in first with a defenseman right on his back, comes out of the corner with the puck, draws 3 guys and then lays it out for McQuaid.

-Couple other (minor) fun facts. Seguin leads the team in +/- (and led the team last year for most of the season as well) and has won 54% of his draws.

So, I know some folks are disappointed with Seguin's goal scoring- he certainly has been snakebitten as a shooter this season, but I think he deserves some recognition for the growth he's shown in his complete game.

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02-27-2013, 08:44 AM
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good call Bill. I'm loving what this kid now has in repertoire. I won't get into his playmaking since you want to keep this on his defensive game but i just want to say that "Segs needs tro score more goals" is the new "We need to score more on the PP or all is lost".

He's a 2 way center masquerading as a wing.

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02-27-2013, 08:44 AM
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Yup. The +/- numbers tell the truth in this case. Seguin is playing responsible hockey. And the points are coming now to, 6 game pt streak! I was on him earlier this season for being soft and his lack of goals, but as long as he puts up points and plays responsible, I'm more than happy.

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02-27-2013, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Ladd View Post
Seguin has been fantastic defensively this season, especially lately.

-He's the hardest backchecker on his line and I've seen him frequently blow past both Bergeron and Marchand on the backcheck.

-As the first guy back, he's often taken up the role of the center in the Dzone and has made some goal saving plays. Last night he picked off a pass from Tavares to Moulson right at the top of the crease. Against the Panthers he pulled a puck off the goal line.

-I'd say he's forced more neutral zone turnovers with his positioning and quick stick work than anybody on the team. He had 2 against the Isles, 1 against Florida. Seems every game, somebody tries to come up his side of the ice and he's able to pick their pocket or pick off a pass while backing up. (He's got 8 takeaways on the season.)

-After a slow start, he's really committing to board battles and I've even seen him pushing guys off the puck along the walls. Against the Habs he practically threw Plekanec. He also has 11 hits on the season (more than Bergeron, Marchand, Krejci, Paille and Peverley).

-A great example of Seguin's 200ft game came on McQuaid's goal against the Isles: Seguin is the first guy back, hounding Tavares. When JT is about to pull the trigger, Seguin gives him a shove that throws him off balance (and tumbling into the corner) and his shot goes way wide. Seguin turns the net, flies up the middle of the ice, gets to the dump in first with a defenseman right on his back, comes out of the corner with the puck, draws 3 guys and then lays it out for McQuaid.

-Couple other (minor) fun facts. Seguin leads the team in +/- (and led the team last year for most of the season as well) and has won 54% of his draws.

So, I know some folks are disappointed with Seguin's goal scoring- he certainly has been snakebitten as a shooter this season, but I think he deserves some recognition for the growth he's shown in his complete game.


I find myself using the word backcheck in the same sentence as Sequin quite often.

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02-27-2013, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Ladd View Post
Seguin has been fantastic defensively this season, especially lately.

-He's the hardest backchecker on his line and I've seen him frequently blow past both Bergeron and Marchand on the backcheck.

-As the first guy back, he's often taken up the role of the center in the Dzone and has made some goal saving plays. Last night he picked off a pass from Tavares to Moulson right at the top of the crease. Against the Panthers he pulled a puck off the goal line.

-I'd say he's forced more neutral zone turnovers with his positioning and quick stick work than anybody on the team. He had 2 against the Isles, 1 against Florida. Seems every game, somebody tries to come up his side of the ice and he's able to pick their pocket or pick off a pass while backing up. (He's got 8 takeaways on the season.)

-After a slow start, he's really committing to board battles and I've even seen him pushing guys off the puck along the walls. Against the Habs he practically threw Plekanec. He also has 11 hits on the season (more than Bergeron, Marchand, Krejci, Paille and Peverley).

-A great example of Seguin's 200ft game came on McQuaid's goal against the Isles: Seguin is the first guy back, hounding Tavares. When JT is about to pull the trigger, Seguin gives him a shove that throws him off balance (and tumbling into the corner) and his shot goes way wide. Seguin turns the net, flies up the middle of the ice, gets to the dump in first with a defenseman right on his back, comes out of the corner with the puck, draws 3 guys and then lays it out for McQuaid.

-Couple other (minor) fun facts. Seguin leads the team in +/- (and led the team last year for most of the season as well) and has won 54% of his draws.

So, I know some folks are disappointed with Seguin's goal scoring- he certainly has been snakebitten as a shooter this season, but I think he deserves some recognition for the growth he's shown in his complete game.
Spot on Bill. I've said it before, he does some of his best work imo causing trouble for the opposition breaking out of their own zone. That line has to be one of the biggest pain in the ***** to play against for the opposition.

Faceoffs have been a pleasant surprise as well, but sample size is still small. Looks like working with Bergeron has helped a lot in this regard.

The goal scoring will come, kid could easily have 10+ goals right now with the chances he's had, but even still 12 points in 16 games isn't that bad offensively either. If you watch close, the little things in his offensive game are developing well as well. I fully expected him to wrist that shot he faked last night.

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02-27-2013, 08:59 AM
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Maybe he'll be more comfortable offensively if he moves to center.

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02-27-2013, 09:02 AM
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Good point Bill.

Its as old as hockey itself. If you havent been able to make a difference offensively, then contribute with good defensive play.

Eventually the "O" will return.

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02-27-2013, 09:04 AM
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So when will the "he can't play center" mantra be dropped?

It has to be only a matter of time no, conventional wisdom shows that a center is move valuable to a franchise than a wing. To make this feasible, they need to get one of their young wings to break through so they can save money.

Maybe my dream of Lucic, Seguin, and Marchand will become a reality

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02-27-2013, 09:06 AM
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His back checking has been superb, and his defensive play has been great in general.

I still see some tentativeness in the board play, especially in the offensive zone. He does a mix of the Thornton buttcheck while also seeming to be more concerned with avoiding contact as a whole while still trying to make the play.

What bothers me the, though, is he just seems to have some mental blocks going on when it comes to his own offense. He is making some great passes, but when it comes to his own chances he looks hesitant and tentative. He either stick handles too much, or hesitates too long, or tries to force a shot, etc. It as if his natural tendencies are being clouded over by some sort of tentativeness or mental block. It could very well be a chicken and egg problem, where this all started around game 3 or 4 where he had great scoring chances but barely missed. Since then, IMO, he hasn't been the same. I assume once he gets a few goals as a result of his talent alone, he will break out of his shell.

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02-27-2013, 09:11 AM
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His work on the boards has definitely improved, since Julien jokingly called him out.

For me, his compete level is a sight to see. I guess this is why it bugged me that people were questioning his effort ala Kessel. It think it is more of a confidence thing - he hasn't quite realized that he is actually bigger and stronger than many of the opposing players.

On the McQuaid goal, he was fearless, dug the puck out with control to make the pass. I am confident that we will see more of this.

Seguin has the potential to be that mix of grit/ finesse & high skill in the mould of Yzerman. I know it is hard to be patient, we want the all-around package now.

Seguin is slowly building up the pieces of his repertoire, which could land him into elite status when it is all said and done.

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02-27-2013, 09:12 AM
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Itís nice to see Seguin evolve into a well-rounded player, especially since he hasnít been scoring much. I think his defensive play is a good measure of his character. If things arenít going your way you can either pout and look for the selfish play so you can start scoring or you can recognize that even though things may not be going your way in one aspect of the game you can still contribute in other ways Ė which is what Seguin is doing. He is distributing the puck, hustling, and playing hard in his own zone. Iíd still like to see him pop in a few more though.

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02-27-2013, 09:31 AM
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That darn Marchand. He's taking all of Seguin's goals!

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02-27-2013, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Ladd View Post
Seguin has been fantastic defensively this season, especially lately.

-He's the hardest backchecker on his line and I've seen him frequently blow past both Bergeron and Marchand on the backcheck.

-As the first guy back, he's often taken up the role of the center in the Dzone and has made some goal saving plays. Last night he picked off a pass from Tavares to Moulson right at the top of the crease. Against the Panthers he pulled a puck off the goal line.

-I'd say he's forced more neutral zone turnovers with his positioning and quick stick work than anybody on the team. He had 2 against the Isles, 1 against Florida. Seems every game, somebody tries to come up his side of the ice and he's able to pick their pocket or pick off a pass while backing up. (He's got 8 takeaways on the season.)

-After a slow start, he's really committing to board battles and I've even seen him pushing guys off the puck along the walls. Against the Habs he practically threw Plekanec. He also has 11 hits on the season (more than Bergeron, Marchand, Krejci, Paille and Peverley).

-A great example of Seguin's 200ft game came on McQuaid's goal against the Isles: Seguin is the first guy back, hounding Tavares. When JT is about to pull the trigger, Seguin gives him a shove that throws him off balance (and tumbling into the corner) and his shot goes way wide. Seguin turns the net, flies up the middle of the ice, gets to the dump in first with a defenseman right on his back, comes out of the corner with the puck, draws 3 guys and then lays it out for McQuaid.

-Couple other (minor) fun facts. Seguin leads the team in +/- (and led the team last year for most of the season as well) and has won 54% of his draws.

So, I know some folks are disappointed with Seguin's goal scoring- he certainly has been snakebitten as a shooter this season, but I think he deserves some recognition for the growth he's shown in his complete game.
Great Post .I think Seguin learning to be a complete player just makes him that much more valuable. The goals will come , we have realise he is still very young most player are this old or older before they ever make the NHL

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02-27-2013, 09:39 AM
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For me, his compete level is a sight to see. I guess this is why it bugged me that people were questioning his effort ala Kessel. It think it is more of a confidence thing - he hasn't quite realized that he is actually bigger and stronger than many of the opposing players.


SPOT ON.. there are times where he actually pushes guys away from the puck with ease and its almost as if he is shellshocked for a small timeframe..

looking at it with "a glass hal-full mentality" in a ay its a good thing he is struggling t score. i feel like there is has been way more emphasis on his total all around game.. if he was just a goal scorer i feel like he wouldnt be getting as muc flack for his other areas of the game.. allll part of the development process !

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02-27-2013, 09:41 AM
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Seguin could become another Steve Yzerman light. I remember when Bowman told Yzerman that he would be a better player if he learned how to play an excellent defensive game. That was the case...

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02-27-2013, 09:44 AM
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Still see him bail out too often in races to the puck on the boards. A lot of that exaggerated jump trying to get around the defensemen on the forecheck but all he's doing is getting himself farther away from the puck. He gives the illusion he's battling, but anybody who watches closely can see what he's doing.

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02-27-2013, 09:45 AM
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So when will the "he can't play center" mantra be dropped?

It has to be only a matter of time no, conventional wisdom shows that a center is move valuable to a franchise than a wing. To make this feasible, they need to get one of their young wings to break through so they can save money.

Maybe my dream of Lucic, Seguin, and Marchand will become a reality
The bolded is exactly what I was thinking. I surely woudl sem that Seguin is making a strong case for trying him out at center. Whether or not that's a motivating factor for his increased defensive responsibility or not, I couldn't say. But I wouldn't mind seeing him get time at third line center if we could find a good top 6 winger to take his spot (yes, I realize this is premature).

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02-27-2013, 09:49 AM
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He looked good yesterday but needs to keep his feet moving more, especially when he has the puck.

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02-27-2013, 10:09 AM
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The bolded is exactly what I was thinking. I surely woudl sem that Seguin is making a strong case for trying him out at center. Whether or not that's a motivating factor for his increased defensive responsibility or not, I couldn't say. But I wouldn't mind seeing him get time at third line center if we could find a good top 6 winger to take his spot (yes, I realize this is premature).
A few games ago, I was going to suggest they try to move him to center (I just never got around to posting the thread). The 3rd line was struggling to score, and Seguin was struggling to score so I thought that maybe moving him or Bergeron (gasp!) to the 3rd line would get Peverley & Kelly going because they'd be playing with a better player and it might get Seguin going because he'd be more involved playing in the middle.

I think that one of the reasons Seguin started so strong last year was because he got to play center through all of September's training camp and then again when Krejci was injured at the start. Maybe it was just a coincidence, but he was so involved offensively in camp and it just continued into the regular season.

But now Seguin's on a roll and his line has looked really good of late. Kelly scored the other day... I don't know if it makes sense to do right now.

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02-27-2013, 10:17 AM
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It's only a question of time before the floodgates open for Seguin.

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02-27-2013, 10:23 AM
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good call Bill. I'm loving what this kid now has in repertoire. I won't get into his playmaking since you want to keep this on his defensive game but i just want to say that "Segs needs tro score more goals" is the new "We need to score more on the PP or all is lost".

He's a 2 way center masquerading as a wing.
when we drafted him i compared him to Jonathan Toews. the two most popular were Stamkos and Yzerman. now i dont think he will be elite defensively like Toews, but a centre with solid defense and 30g 40a 70p offensively is what i thought, at least in CJ's system. if he played for an offensive team i think he could possibly be a 90 point guy

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02-27-2013, 10:33 AM
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So, I know some folks are disappointed with Seguin's goal scoring- he certainly has been snakebitten as a shooter this season, but I think he deserves some recognition for the growth he's shown in his complete game.
This is really a well thought out thread, and you have some great evidence to back up your claims.

To your last point, I think over the last handful of games, and last night was maybe the best example of this, we have seen Seguin go back to playing instinctually, playing to his strengths, and not trying to force the play, or fit into that mold of a "goal scorer." I think he might have felt at the beginning of the year, that his role on this team was to score goals, and I think you saw him forcing the play a bit on the rush, trying to beat guys one on one, or coming in the zone and looking shot first. But I think when Seguin is at his best, he is a pass first player, and all of his offense comes off of that mindset. Last night especially, we saw him play HIS game, and do a great job of getting his teammates involved. Besides the two assists that he did have, he set up Bergeron and Marchand for several great opportunities. He was also able to draw a penalty, something he did a lot of last year, and that he will do when he is using his skills and playing his game. And yes, I think he defensive play has been excellent, and something he does not get enough credit for. I really like the type of hockey is he playing right now, and if he keeps it up, the goals will eventually come.

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02-27-2013, 10:35 AM
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Funny, I was thinking this to myself last game... his defense game has improved leaps and bounds this past year.

He may not be putting the puck in the net as much as my fantasy team would like, but kid has been stellar in my opinion. You see the growth and him getting better/more complete.

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02-27-2013, 10:40 AM
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Being good defensively is all about wanting to be good defensively. Seguin's commitment to his all-around game shows the type of character and player he is and will be.

From my perspective he seems like a kid who wants to win and will do whatever it takes for the TEAM to win.

I've really been impressed with his defense lately and his willingness to play that part of the game. I think Julien's comments had a lot to do with his current play. He's engaged physically, he's going to the dirty areas of the ice and he's playing hard at both ends of the ice.

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02-27-2013, 11:22 AM
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how far the kids has come.

Spot On Bill. I bet he has saved 10-12 prime scoring chances this year at least.
He has defended another 24 passing lanes with positioning.

Lack of scoring be damned. He is making a difference with this type of play.

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