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Why is the West better than the East?

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Old
02-28-2013, 10:13 AM
  #176
tarheelhockey
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Originally Posted by MilanKraft View Post
These teams can't score on their own moms.
Wait, what?

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02-28-2013, 10:17 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Even if you factor in "surprises", the biggest positive surprises have been the Blackhawks and Ducks. The biggest negative surprises have been NYR and Philly, and Pittsburgh to an extent.
Pittsburgh sitting first in their division and second in the conference are a negative surprise?

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02-28-2013, 10:18 AM
  #178
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Originally Posted by radapex View Post
Pittsburgh sitting first in their division and second in the conference are a negative surprise?
They were touted as a powerhouse for the ages and have bombed. Their defense is brutal. They look like a 1st or 2nd round exit team, just like they have the last few years.

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02-28-2013, 10:23 AM
  #179
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Originally Posted by MessierII View Post
There's actually a bunch of ways to prove it....points....records against each other....etc
At the end of the day, the only thing that determines which conference is better is who comes away with the Stanley Cup. If you want to argue which is stronger or deeper, then it's a whole different story... but as far as being "better", they're quite equal.

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02-28-2013, 10:25 AM
  #180
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
I guess that is a fairly obvious point but I hadn't made that connection. It's boggled my mind as to why the East wins Cups as often as they do. I just chalked it up to "anything can happen in a series" but you make a great point.
It's because there really isn't a huge difference between the top teams in either conference.

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02-28-2013, 10:38 AM
  #181
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
They were touted as a powerhouse for the ages and have bombed. Their defense is brutal. They look like a 1st or 2nd round exit team, just like they have the last few years.
Their defense is brutal, but that's shouldn't come as a surprise. The last time they were strong defensively was when they won the cup, then they replaced defensive guys like Scuderi & Gill with puck movers like Martin & Niskanen.

They did lock it down pretty well two years ago when Crosby & Malkin were both out, but that's because they were forced to make a commitment to team defense.

I can't really say they're a negative surprise when they are exactly what I expected them to be.

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02-28-2013, 10:41 AM
  #182
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Originally Posted by radapex View Post
I can't really say they're a negative surprise when they are exactly what I expected them to be.
In that case, yeah, I definitely see your point. I was on the fence. I thought having two pretty decent goalies would make a bigger difference but it hasn't. My point was more NHL fans at large, the majority, appeared to have them as one of the top teams in the league. I remember the Pens, Rangers, Kings and Blues getting the most hype leading up to the season.

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02-28-2013, 11:05 AM
  #183
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Does it really matter anyway ? What makes a team the best ? Its skills ? Its total points ?

The best team is ultimately the one that wins the Stanley Cup, regardless of how much skilled teams are. And the better Conference is the one in which the SC winner plays.

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02-28-2013, 11:25 AM
  #184
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Take the Wings out of the West and this debate takes a complete 360.

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02-28-2013, 11:26 AM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Sens91 View Post
Take the Wings out of the West and this debate takes a complete 360.
Agreed on that.

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02-28-2013, 11:30 AM
  #186
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since lookout... (2012/13 not included)
GAME PLAYED: 1530
EAST Wins: 771
WEST Wins: 759

if someone feels to do it season by seasons let yourself loose


Last edited by alpine4life: 12-27-2014 at 02:49 PM.
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02-28-2013, 11:32 AM
  #187
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Because Jim Morrison prophesized it in The End

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02-28-2013, 11:33 AM
  #188
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Because it has nicer mountains.

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02-28-2013, 11:33 AM
  #189
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Hectic travel schedule makes actually playing the game more difficult.

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02-28-2013, 11:44 AM
  #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chelios View Post
That was my suspicion, but I would love to see some actual numbers.
----

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Originally Posted by MessierII View Post
So your saying in 09-10 when 4 teams missed playoffs in the west with better records than the 8th place team and a couple of them better than the 7th and when 7 of the 8 playoff teams in the west had 100+ points the west wasn't clearly way better?
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Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
Since it's being taken for granted in 09-10 that 4 teams in the West (Dallas, Anaheim, Calgary and St Louis) who missed the playoffs were better than 2 teams in the East that made it (Rangers, Philly), I thought I'd look at not only their head to heads, but their collective performance against the division the two Eastern teams shared.

In head to heads, those four teams went 4-6 against Phil and NYR, while not posting a very good goal differential vs the two supposedly "worse" teams (21 GF 28 GA).

Against the Atlantic division, which is where Philly and the Rangers had the plurality of their games, those Western teams went 11-14 (5 of those wins by St Louis), but got embarrassed in goal differential 44-77. This means the wins the Western clubs got tended to be squeakers and the losses they got, laughers.

I think it's safe to say only St Louis (5-2 against the Atlantic) could be argued to have had a chance to outpoint Philadelphia or the Rangers in the same situation those teams found themselves in.

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02-28-2013, 11:51 AM
  #191
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Also, Pittsburgh's defense, as in the 6 D they send out on any given night, are far from brutal. Their team defense issues (which are substantial) are systemic. Usually, but not exclusively, related to the Malkin line leaving the zone before possession is established or not collapsing deep enough, which forces the D into terrible spots (trapped behind the net or forced to make impossible passes through 4 people to advance the puck).

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02-28-2013, 01:00 PM
  #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sens91 View Post
Take the Wings out of the West and this debate takes a complete 360.
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Agreed on that.
No, it only makes West better .

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02-28-2013, 01:06 PM
  #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radapex View Post
At the end of the day, the only thing that determines which conference is better is who comes away with the Stanley Cup. If you want to argue which is stronger or deeper, then it's a whole different story... but as far as being "better", they're quite equal.
No because a single team is not even close to a reflection on an entire conference and its absurd to suggest it is.

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02-28-2013, 01:16 PM
  #194
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the oilers make the playoffs 100% in the east.

that says it all.

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02-28-2013, 02:19 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by Semantics View Post
You're right, the stats don't lie. And the stats I'm talking about show that the west is "better" in every big professional sport in North America, across several decades worth of data, whereas you're only talking about the NHL over a short time span. If you choose to think that it's all just a big coincidence and that western teams don't enjoy any inherent advantage, feel free; you're likely outnumbered here by people who put a lot of weight on actual peer-reviewed scientific publications, and THOSE are the people I'm trying to make a point to, not you.

As an aside, the "western" conference in the NHL includes several teams in the central time zone, and even two on eastern time. That makes Detroit's dominance of the conference over the past couple of decades seem slightly more impressive.
Well yes, the western teams do enjoy an advantage. Enjoy may not be the proper term though. Eastern teams going through the west have to endure road trips way outside of their comfort zone, while western teams on a regular basis deal with tougher schedules. Thats why you hear of many players who want to stay in the eastern conference, since you play in your time zone basically the entire season, and road trips are quite easy, and can end with you being at home. That’s also why the west is considered “tougher”, since just being in the western conference is tougher to endure.

Take a look at the map of the NHL team locations. Eastern teams have it made with respect to the distance they have to travel for games. I can see why they have trouble travelling west, and have to deal with what is routine for western teams. That’s why I said “enjoy” may not be the proper term. I think western teams are just better prepared for the lifestyle.

As per the time-zone advantages, it should be noted that Pacific and NW teams have to change time-zones for every game against the eastern conference and quite a few against their own conference. Eastern teams don’t have to change time-zones for part of the western conference, so simply blanket stating that the western conference has an advantage due to that is not correct.

There are likely some other factors, like eastern teams doing road trips at higher elevations that they are not used to (Calgary and Denver) and vastly varying climates (a western road trip will have eastern teams playing in the mountains, on the coast and in the desert, likely within days of eachother). Bodies need to quickly adapt to play a fast violent sport, while dealing with that. But quantifying that would need to be done to see what extent that affect has.

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02-28-2013, 02:21 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by wreckless View Post
the oilers make the playoffs 100% in the east.

that says it all.
Ah yes, this baseless conjecture sure solved the argument.

Thank you, forums poster wreckless, for settling the debate.

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02-28-2013, 02:45 PM
  #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wreckless View Post
the oilers make the playoffs 100% in the east.

that says it all.
19 points (SE cut off, lowest amount in Eastern playoffs) is greater than Edmontons 18 points, technically they would not be in playoff position currently even being put into the weakest division (21 is the cutoff for 8th spot).

Also being in the East Edmonton would be less likely to have OT losses, as there are few OT games. West has 44 OT games, East has 29. And the Northwest has 3 in the top 5 for OT losses. Lots of points being given out in the west to make this statement.

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02-28-2013, 02:58 PM
  #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sens91 View Post
Take the Wings out of the West and this debate takes a complete 360.
Sooooo... Right back where we started?

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02-28-2013, 03:22 PM
  #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpine4life View Post
since lookout... (2012/13 not included)
GAME PLAYED: 1530
EAST Wins: 771
WEST Wins: 759

if someone feels to do it season by seasons let yourself loose
The biggest problem with trying to use records head to head is that they have not been playing a home and away against each team. So it makes it very uneven when looking at it.

I'm of the opinion that they are different and not one is better than the other. But if the new alignment goes into place with the proposed home and home we will have 420 games a year inter-conference. And with them all being home and away after a few years we might be able to tell which style is really better. But I doubt it.

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02-28-2013, 04:47 PM
  #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Man, I am just so down on that team. That defense is just ****ing awful. If I were making an argument for the East, I'd probably leave them out of it because of that defense.
Believe it or not Pittsburgh dominates western teams. They were 13-2-3 against the west last year, and 57-23-12 overall since 2006 (when the pens became a good team). I see all this talk about how big and tough the western teams are but i don't really see it since Pittsburgh rolls over most of them.

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