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Why do quality wings not want to come to the Pens?

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03-05-2013, 04:06 PM
  #1
Jaded-Fan
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Why do quality wings not want to come to the Pens?

Luc Robitaille, Los Angeles Kings wing, fantasizing about playing on a line with Pittsburgh's Mario Lemieux: ''A fire hydrant could score 40 goals with him.''

Players dreamed of playing on Mario’s wing. Gretzky’s wing. Every great center of the years had players dream of what it would be like to have a guy like that setting up easy goals for them. Why not Malkin or Crosby?

It hits you when you realize how many wings have passed through free agency over the past eight year, hundreds, that not one who was better than Dupuis ever called up and said ‘Hey Shero, I would take a discount, put me on Crosby’s wing.’ Is Shero trolling Crosby? Or is there something about Crosby and/or Malkin that makes top wings say no thanks despite the obvious benefits. Hell, Crosby is making Kunitz third in scoring in the NHL. No disrespect to Kunitz, but are you ****ing kidding me? Not a single quality wing has an interest in some of that in eight years? Only Hossa, and he was forced to come here in trade and he left after a couple months.


It is not like quality wings have not changed hands since Crosby entered the league eight years ago. Literally dozens if not a hundred or more have. Thirty wings changed teams in 2012 just through free agency, and that does not count trades where a lot more changed hands. Not all were top wings to be sure, but still that adds up to hundreds over the last eight years. Here are lists going back as far as this site goes, which is the last three years, of the all the wings that were available:

2012:
http://www.mynhltraderumors.com/2011...-left-wingers/
http://www.mynhltraderumors.com/2011...right-wingers/

2011:
http://www.mynhltraderumors.com/2010...ree-agents/#LW
http://www.mynhltraderumors.com/2010...ree-agents/#RW

2010:
http://www.mynhltraderumors.com/2010...ents/#Forwards

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03-05-2013, 04:09 PM
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IcedCapp
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Because people literally hate Crosby with the heat of 1.2 billion suns.

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03-05-2013, 04:13 PM
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CEC's ****** ice?

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03-05-2013, 04:16 PM
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alcanalz
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I think the only two you can really make a case for that the Pens were certainly in on and offered legitimate money were Hossa and Parise. Hossa left for a "better" chance with the defending cup champs and Parise left with Suter for home.

I don't know who else was out there in the last 3~ years that we ever had the space to offer a contract to, or actually wanted them here. PA Parenteau? No thanks.

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03-05-2013, 04:18 PM
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The women

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Old
03-05-2013, 04:18 PM
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Jaded-Fan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alcanalz View Post
I think the only two you can really make a case for that the Pens were certainly in on and offered legitimate money were Hossa and Parise. Hossa left for a "better" chance with the defending cup champs and Parise left with Suter for home.

I don't know who else was out there in the last 3~ years that we ever had the space to offer a contract to, or actually wanted them here. PA Parenteau? No thanks.
Look at the links for the last three years alone. None were better than Dupuis?

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03-05-2013, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by JimmyTwoTimes View Post
The women
Nah, the women are giving their all for the team.






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Old
03-05-2013, 04:24 PM
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alcanalz
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Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
Look at the links for the last three years alone. None were better than Dupuis?
I only looked at last year's as we actually had cap room for once. The years previous we were pretty tight and had some upcoming UFA / RFA situations. I'll disregard those (and I'm too lazy to go through it all).

Who would you honestly have had from the FA crop last year? Semin looks good now, but there were gigantic questions marks on him, from huge character and work ethic issues to how much he would want and sign for.

That's pretty much it. Parise and Semin. Whitney would have looked good here too but he's on the wrong side of 40 and he's barely been able to play this year.

Not to mention that Dupuis scored 25 goals last year, mostly without Sid, and that he's always worked well with him.

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03-05-2013, 04:24 PM
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Darth Vitale
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This thread is going to get very little leeway because it's not based on reality / any known problem with players wanting to come here. Based on the 100% rumor-based links, it's not backed up by anything factual other than, we didn't get the players we wanted in any given year (as fans).

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03-05-2013, 04:26 PM
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IcedCapp
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these discussion are so hard. We never know who the Pens actually pursue. We never know the actual offers. We don't know anything that happens behind closed doors. Shero has a very unique situation: He has 2 players who he has to pay a large portion of the cap to while basically doing everything in his power to keep for their entire careers. He has to be very careful about how he structures the salary situation for this team.

I'm guessing there is no team more detailed in how they approach their salary cap situation on a year-to-year, even day-to-day basis. (Many teams may be equal)

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03-05-2013, 04:28 PM
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Jaded-Fan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alcanalz View Post
I only looked at last year's as we actually had cap room for once. The years previous we were pretty tight and had some upcoming UFA / RFA situations. I'll disregard those (and I'm too lazy to go through it all).

Who would you honestly have had from the FA crop last year? Semin looks good now, but there were gigantic questions marks on him, from huge character and work ethic issues to how much he would want and sign for.

That's pretty much it. Parise and Semin. Whitney would have looked good here too but he's on the wrong side of 40 and he's barely been able to play this year.

Not to mention that Dupuis scored 25 goals last year, mostly without Sid, and that he's always worked well with him.
Semin is the obvious one who got away last year. And it is not Monday morning quarterbacking to say it. I literally was screaming for them to sign him as were many here. You did not have to be a fortune teller to tell he would do what he actually did.

But I am not talking specific examples. I am saying that there have been hundreds of wings change hands in the last eight years. Oh those literally dozens of wings better than we have, and have had, have passed from one team to another. Looking at the aggregate, it is impossible without something going on behind the scenes that Shero could not find one upgrade to come here.

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03-05-2013, 04:32 PM
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Here's the bottom line: can anyone point to a single substantive piece of evidence (namely a quote) from a player who did not come here, or who left here (talking about a Top 5 D or Top 9 F only -- Tangradi and Strait don't fit the bill), who suggested that this is not a good place to play, or that the personalities are too strong or that mgmt was respectful or anything like that?

I doubt it. This thread is basically going ot be a bunch of people making up stuff as they go along / guessing why players feel a certain way when we have no idea if they actually feel that way.

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03-05-2013, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
This thread is going to get very little leeway because it's not based on reality / any known problem with players wanting to come here. Based on the 100% rumor-based links, it's not backed up by anything factual other than, we didn't get the players we wanted in any given year (as fans).
It is speculation, as I titled it. Not tin hat variety, but merely whether it is priorities of Shero, or maybe it is something going on with the players. I think likely the former rather than anything with Crosby or Malkin.

I am not looking at specific wings in this, nor providing any specific speculation for that matter. I am merely observing that over this long a period and this many players, that statistically you have to wonder what is going on. The Pens had to have opportunities to upgrade reasonably and either keep whiffing or have passed on purpose.

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03-05-2013, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
Semin is the obvious one who got away last year. And it is not Monday morning quarterbacking to say it. I literally was screaming for them to sign him as were many here. You did not have to be a fortune teller to tell he would do what he actually did.

But I am not talking specific examples. I am saying that there have been hundreds of wings change hands in the last eight years. Oh those literally dozens of wings better than we have, and have had, have passed from one team to another. Looking at the aggregate, it is impossible without something going on behind the scenes that Shero could not find one upgrade to come here.
But Semin is still speculation. AFAIK, there was never any indication from the FO that they actually were interested or offered him.

Hossa and Parise were the only two legitimate, known targets. And they both declined for obvious and quite understandable reasons.

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03-05-2013, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
Why do quality wings not want to come to the Pens?
Because Shero didnt want to/couldnt pay what they wanted or they were never offered a deal to begin with?

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03-05-2013, 04:35 PM
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Hudler, Parenteau and Whitney would have been nice here. But Shero definitely isn't into overpaying free agents. And gut feeling tells me he's targeted specific players he wants and he'll do what he can to get one of them. Hockey trades are Shero's bread and butter. I trust him to get it done.

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03-05-2013, 04:37 PM
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IcedCapp
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Also, remember: easier to get players to buy into taking a Penguins-friendly contract after they've been part of the team. Not everyone will buy into that concept as an outsider.

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03-05-2013, 04:38 PM
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Alright, seen as how I have nothing better to do, let's go through as many of these as I can before I get bored.

Alexander Semin - Buried multiple times by ex-Caps, rumours of poor work ethic, unfounded or not. Would have been a massive risk.
Smyth - Old, slow, nothing special. Not worth his caphit to a cap team.
Parise - Been covered.
Huselius - No better than Dupuis, really.
Penner - Lazy, unmotivated, never justified his contracts.
Jason Blake - Unsigned for presumably a good reason.
Wolski - Could never put it together, bounced between so many teams, not a good fit.
Kostitsyn - Again, work ethic questions, questionable compatibility with HCDB.
Niklas Hagman - In the KHL, and is pretty useless anyway.
Ray Whitney - No way is he worth 4.5 million a year.
Prospal - Looks to be staying with CBJ no matter what.
Latendresse - Pretty much Penner all over again, but with a less inflated payslip.
Sturm - Busted knees.
Brunette - Old and slow.
Mueller - Concussion issues.
Avery - Yeah...
Holmstrom - Not leaving Detroit.
Poni - Been there, done that.
Moen - A lot of money, not an upgrade on Dupuis.
Sullivan - Maybe could have been reupped, but got more money off Phoenix.
Doan - Didn't leave Phoenix.
Hemsky - Didn't leave Edmonton.
Selanne - Didn't leave Anaheim.
Boyes - Boom or bust, his best off was 1 million from the Islanders.
Jagr - No way he's getting 4.5 million after his theatrics last year.
Langenbrunner - Old, slow.
Hejduk - Was never leaving Colorado.
David Jones - No chance.
Samuelsson - Not really an upgrade of Dupuis.
Parentau - Flash in pan.

That pretty much covers 2012. That'll do for now. Big plays were made for Hossa, which we had no plan B to, and for Parise, who was really the only player out there that we could target and get.

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03-05-2013, 04:39 PM
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alcanalz
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All I'm saying is there's so much talk about getting Sid a winger, and yes it would be wonderful to see him play with Perry or Nash, but Kunitz is good and Dupuis works well with him. Not to mention he gets shifts with Geno and Neal, and a ton of PP time with all of our big guns.

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03-05-2013, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Hudler, Parenteau and Whitney would have been nice here. But Shero definitely isn't into overpaying free agents. And gut feeling tells me he's targeted specific players he wants and he'll do what he can to get one of them. Hockey trades are Shero's bread and butter. I trust him to get it done.
Kind of wanted Doan but Phoenix gave him a ridiculous contract..

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03-05-2013, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
It is speculation, as I titled it. Not tin hat variety, but merely whether it is priorities of Shero, or maybe it is something going on with the players. .
Here's the problem with speculation in this instance: not one of us has access to: Shero, the coaches, the locker room, the players we tried to acquire but didn't get... no connections with reliable media (like McGuire or McKenzie), nothing. We're completely in the dark and don't even have things like TSN and Capgeek to work with the way we do with trades or FA rumblings.

We don't in fact KNOW that there IS a problem with players not wanting to come here. I've never even heard that suggested before today. In fact everything I've read to date suggests players really like it here for the most part. Petr Sykora not withstanding because of his prior history with Disco.

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03-05-2013, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Here's the problem with speculation in this instance: not one of us has access to Shero, the coaches, the locker room, the players we tried to acquire but didn't get... nothing. We're completely in teh dark and don't even have things like TSN and Capgeek to work with the way we do with trades or FA rumblings.

We don't in fact KNOW that there IS a problem with players not wanting to come here. I've never even heard that suggested before today. In fact everything I've read to date suggests players really like it here for the most part. Petr Sykora not withstanding because of his prior history with Disco.
Yeah my title may have been off. If anything, of the two possibilities, I think it is Shero dropping the ball or focusing more on defense. Or even rebuffing wings who may have offered a discount.

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03-05-2013, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
Yeah my title may have been off. If anything, of the two possibilities, I think it is Shero dropping the ball or focusing more on defense. Or even rebuffing wings who may have offered a discount.
OK so... is there really anything about this thread that can't be merged into the next version of the Winger Thread / any reason why we couldn't discuss this there? If it's all right with you, that's my inclination. Not trying to be Thread Police or anything but I do want to keep from having multiple winger threads because it's very easily accomplished around here.

Sounds like you're just looking to discuss why we haven't been more successful with winger acquisitions rather than thinking wingers "don't want to come here".

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03-05-2013, 04:48 PM
  #24
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I feel like the only player who came here willing to take a discount to play for a legitimate contender was Jay McKee who was horrible.

We have retained players for reasonable contracts, but it seems like we don't attract players at a discount. Maybe it's because very few players are from Pittsburgh.

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03-05-2013, 04:49 PM
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Semin, Hudler, Whitney from a few years ago, and maybe Ryder. Didn't really see anything else that seemed like a substantial upgrade over Dupuis.

I'm right there with you re: Semin, but we don't really know what happened there. Shero must have had some interest .I recall Bylsma talking about how a Semin or a Doan might look good on one of our tops lines during the summer.

Semin's had some choice words for Crosby in the past, so it's possible that Shero didn't feel comfortable throwing a big contract at him for that reason, in addition to his other perceived baggage.

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