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Calm and Collected. Stuart Percy

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Old
06-01-2013, 08:17 PM
  #1
WeWantACup
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Calm and Collected. Stuart Percy

After Nazem Kadri was drafted seventh overall in 2009, the Leafs would not select in the first round until 2011 where they picked twice, late in the first.

http://www.wewantacup.com/headlines/...-and-collected


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06-01-2013, 08:31 PM
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Stephen
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I guess the worst you can really say about him is he's an incredibly boring prospect. The true value of these smart, good soldier type defensemen is when they're fully developed, and you get one at a reasonable price on the market. Developing one is a pretty thankless and time consuming, and the payoff is "who cares?"

Sure, you might have a Carl Gunnarsson on your hands one day, but you risk the possibility of those Jurco, Rattie, Jenner type prospects developing a lot faster and making way bigger impacts. And they're stocking up on those Granberg, Nilsson, Loov with those late picks anyway. Is Percy that much better than those guys? Is Percy better than a Matt Finn? Maybe down the road you try to trade a Percy to get a Jenner. But I bet the Jackets aren't willing to make that swap.

In summary, low upside, long development cycle, huge organizational log jam of defensemen. Not impressed.

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06-01-2013, 08:41 PM
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davehamilton100
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Jack of all trades

Not enough credit is given to NHL blueliners who provide an all around (yet not flashy) dependability. He won't physically punish guys and he won't have a year like Karlsson did, but Percy is shaping up to be an asset who logs serious minutes because of his sound play.

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06-01-2013, 09:06 PM
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Stephen
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Originally Posted by davehamilton100 View Post
Not enough credit is given to NHL blueliners who provide an all around (yet not flashy) dependability. He won't physically punish guys and he won't have a year like Karlsson did, but Percy is shaping up to be an asset who logs serious minutes because of his sound play.
Well, the question is will he usurp Franson or Gunnarsson?

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06-01-2013, 09:07 PM
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Center Ice Scrum
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
I guess the worst you can really say about him is he's an incredibly boring prospect. The true value of these smart, good soldier type defensemen is when they're fully developed, and you get one at a reasonable price on the market. Developing one is a pretty thankless and time consuming, and the payoff is "who cares?"

Sure, you might have a Carl Gunnarsson on your hands one day, but you risk the possibility of those Jurco, Rattie, Jenner type prospects developing a lot faster and making way bigger impacts. And they're stocking up on those Granberg, Nilsson, Loov with those late picks anyway. Is Percy that much better than those guys? Is Percy better than a Matt Finn? Maybe down the road you try to trade a Percy to get a Jenner. But I bet the Jackets aren't willing to make that swap.

In summary, low upside, long development cycle, huge organizational log jam of defensemen. Not impressed.
None of these guys are 1st line centers or even first line players. They are long-shot prospects for a "star" role. They are however, fairly good 3rd line, 2nd line tweener players in the future. Teams aren't built with 12 flashy scoring forwards and 6 flashy defenceman. Percy will be a valuable 4th/5th D on a contending team. Just like Jurco, Rattie, Jenner would be depth scoring players on a contending team. None of these guys are franchise players, stop complaining.

I find it extremely annoying when people are so prospect crazed. All these kids have potential and none are guaranteed to reach it. Most of these players at their highest potential would not improve our top 6 from where it is now. If anything, only time people should complain is a situation where the team passes up potential franchise type or top line players in favor of redundant players who have less upside. Only pick we did that with was Schenn. And I don't hear people *****ing about that anymore.

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06-01-2013, 09:08 PM
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I'm actually really excited about him. He's obviously going to need more time, but I think he's going to be a gem.

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06-01-2013, 09:13 PM
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Honestly I didnt like the pick then and I still dont like it now. I definitely think he has a small ceiling, but I mean he doesn't bring an extra dimension to his game to make him standout. Gardiner has great speed and skill, as does morgan, and with dion, gunnar, franson being locks pretty much, it is unlikely that he will play. What scares me a bit is that he was even scratched in his time with the marlies. In my opinion, I would of liked Danault, but all we can do now is watch i guess.

edit: I MUCH MUCH MUCH rather of taken Ty Rattie

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06-01-2013, 09:16 PM
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people criticizing one our only defensemen prospects that actually focuses on playing defence and both ends of the puck? okay?

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06-01-2013, 09:23 PM
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Stephen
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Originally Posted by Center Ice Scrum View Post
None of these guys are 1st line centers or even first line players. They are long-shot prospects for a "star" role. They are however, fairly good 3rd line, 2nd line tweener players in the future. Teams aren't built with 12 flashy scoring forwards and 6 flashy defenceman. Percy will be a valuable 4th/5th D on a contending team. Just like Jurco, Rattie, Jenner would be depth scoring players on a contending team. None of these guys are franchise players, stop complaining.

I find it extremely annoying when people are so prospect crazed. All these kids have potential and none are guaranteed to reach it. Most of these players at their highest potential would not improve our top 6 from where it is now. If anything, only time people should complain is a situation where the team passes up potential franchise type or top line players in favor of redundant players who have less upside. Only pick we did that with was Schenn. And I don't hear people *****ing about that anymore.
I thought we were talking about prospects in the first place?

Anyway, what I'm saying is the kind of player Percy projects to be really shines years and years after you draft them. Let's use an example like Dennis Seidenberg as an example of a really intelligent defenseman who plays a two way game if all goes well. The guy was about 25-26 by the time he broke through as a regular NHLer. It's a lengthy incubating period. By contrast, good young forwards can make the NHL with way less development time and serve their apprenticeships on lower lines and still be making NHL contributions on their ELCs.

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06-01-2013, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Didact View Post
people criticizing one our only defensemen prospects that actually focuses on playing defence and both ends of the puck? okay?



Granberg, Loov, Nilsson, Holzer?

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06-01-2013, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Center Ice Scrum View Post
None of these guys are 1st line centers or even first line players. They are long-shot prospects for a "star" role. They are however, fairly good 3rd line, 2nd line tweener players in the future. Teams aren't built with 12 flashy scoring forwards and 6 flashy defenceman. Percy will be a valuable 4th/5th D on a contending team. Just like Jurco, Rattie, Jenner would be depth scoring players on a contending team. None of these guys are franchise players, stop complaining.

I find it extremely annoying when people are so prospect crazed. All these kids have potential and none are guaranteed to reach it. Most of these players at their highest potential would not improve our top 6 from where it is now. If anything, only time people should complain is a situation where the team passes up potential franchise type or top line players in favor of redundant players who have less upside. Only pick we did that with was Schenn. And I don't hear people *****ing about that anymore.
Pretty much this.

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06-01-2013, 09:39 PM
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Watching him with the majors/steelheads, I was very impressed with how few mistakes he ever made. Always in position, makes the right discesions and just offensive enough and physical enough to be a threat in either area.

Seems like he could be the perfect partner for Jake or Morgan down the road.


Last edited by FriedEgg: 06-01-2013 at 09:46 PM.
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06-01-2013, 09:53 PM
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I'm not too upset with the Percy pick but I would've rather had Jenner or Rattie.

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06-01-2013, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
[/B]

Granberg, Loov, Nilsson, Holzer?
Those guys are different.

Stuart Percy is projected to be a top 4 D and could be a good #3 defenseman. Percy has offensive upside to go with his smarts on D as well as leadership skills.

Granberg, Loov, Nillsson are all depth defenseman that do not have any offensive upside. Holzer is not a prospect in my opinion. He's a #6/#7D.

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06-01-2013, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
I thought we were talking about prospects in the first place?

Anyway, what I'm saying is the kind of player Percy projects to be really shines years and years after you draft them. Let's use an example like Dennis Seidenberg as an example of a really intelligent defenseman who plays a two way game if all goes well. The guy was about 25-26 by the time he broke through as a regular NHLer. It's a lengthy incubating period. By contrast, good young forwards can make the NHL with way less development time and serve their apprenticeships on lower lines and still be making NHL contributions on their ELCs.
My initial response to your first post was "what if he becomes Seidenberg". Glad you said it first. He would be a great pick if that is his upside

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06-01-2013, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
[/B]

Granberg, Loov, Nilsson, Holzer?
So what happens if none of those players become regular NHL defenseman? I bet you'll be pretty thankful that Leafs management stocked up on defensemen.

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06-01-2013, 11:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Didact View Post
people criticizing one our only defensemen prospects that actually focuses on playing defence and both ends of the puck? okay?
Matt Finn is a much better prospect than Percy is. He's better at both ends of the ice and has more of a physical game.

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06-01-2013, 11:04 PM
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Would rather have taken Jurco/Rattie/Gibson.

Percy was a straight up reach.

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06-01-2013, 11:16 PM
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The way Burke was talking up Percy after the draft, I got an impression that Brian had direct input into his selection...mentioning that he had personally scouted Percy on a number of occasions and was basically blown away by his potential. Percy was largely injured the following year and we didn't hear much further from that GM on this prospect.

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06-01-2013, 11:19 PM
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I'm not sure what they have yet. Blacker looked pretty solid in his first cup of coffee with the Marlies too, and two years later hasn't taken the next step. On the slight chance Percy is what he kind of seems, I will reserve my opinion. Strong positional players with a good first pass don't generate huge offence but they make up for the mistakes of more daring D men. The Leafs have too many of these more daring D men.

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06-01-2013, 11:45 PM
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Funny how our number 1 need now, and for the past few years has been a shutdown defenceman, and people criticize us for taking players that seem to fill that role.

And enough of this "defensive logjam" talk. I've been hearing that for the last 10 years and every year we realize that a lot of our dmen that we pegged as full-timers have not played up to par.

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06-01-2013, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Mikeyg View Post
Honestly I didnt like the pick then and I still dont like it now. I definitely think he has a small ceiling, but I mean he doesn't bring an extra dimension to his game to make him standout. Gardiner has great speed and skill, as does morgan, and with dion, gunnar, franson being locks pretty much, it is unlikely that he will play. What scares me a bit is that he was even scratched in his time with the marlies. In my opinion, I would of liked Danault, but all we can do now is watch i guess.

edit: I MUCH MUCH MUCH rather of taken Ty Rattie
Wow Really? You're scared because a 19 year old was scratched for a bit while a team was making a playoff/championship drive?

Jesus people, not all 1st rounder's are stud, franchise players especially later in the round. Most years outside of the top 3-5 picks no one's gonna be a guaranteed success.

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06-01-2013, 11:59 PM
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what's wrong with having a ryan suter type of player?

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06-02-2013, 12:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
I thought we were talking about prospects in the first place?

Anyway, what I'm saying is the kind of player Percy projects to be really shines years and years after you draft them. Let's use an example like Dennis Seidenberg as an example of a really intelligent defenseman who plays a two way game if all goes well. The guy was about 25-26 by the time he broke through as a regular NHLer. It's a lengthy incubating period. By contrast, good young forwards can make the NHL with way less development time and serve their apprenticeships on lower lines and still be making NHL contributions on their ELCs.
This is so awkward... Seidenberg was like 20-21 when he made the nhl... heck he was probably 19 when he made his debut with the flyers lol

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06-02-2013, 01:01 AM
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Center Ice Scrum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
I thought we were talking about prospects in the first place?

Anyway, what I'm saying is the kind of player Percy projects to be really shines years and years after you draft them. Let's use an example like Dennis Seidenberg as an example of a really intelligent defenseman who plays a two way game if all goes well. The guy was about 25-26 by the time he broke through as a regular NHLer. It's a lengthy incubating period. By contrast, good young forwards can make the NHL with way less development time and serve their apprenticeships on lower lines and still be making NHL contributions on their ELCs.
That's just it though, Percy isn't going to take 7 years to develop. Guys like Gunnarsson, Seidenberg were late round picks who were hopeful to be NHL players. These guys were longshots to make it to the NHL, let alone be impactful in any way. Percy is a 1st rounder who is miles and miles ahead in his career currently than the other two were at the same age.

Seidenberg didn't hit his stride until he turned 30, when he was picked up by the Bruins and got to play with freaking CHARA. Gunnar on the other hand was drafted 3 years past his age slot. He was a 21 year old player drafted amongst kids who were 18. It took him 2 seasons AFTER his draft to make it as a full timer on the Leafs. Seidenberg was also 20 the year he was drafted. So, he himself was 2 years older than the players drafted along side him.

Both are rare cases of players drafted extremely late age wise and draft round wise. Both have become impact players some 5 and 10 years post their draft. Both took the long way to development, as seen by their ages the year they were drafted.

PERCY was drafted as a 18 year old, in the first round (projected to go early second at worst). He had a pretty nasty concussion the season after he was drafted and that has taken away almost a 3/4 season's worth of development. However, since coming back from his injury he has been exactly what was expected of him. He was drafted to become a steady, 2 way defenceman who can play all situations at all times. The kid captained a very young Steelheads team and was a vital piece of their franchise for 3 of his 4 seasons. He achieved very great success in his junior career.

Now,

Can you please give me a list of players that were drafted in the late 1st or early second round who became INSTANT impact players? Players who were regulars producing by the time their 1st, 2nd, 3rd seasons rolled around (post-draft).

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that your list is going to be very very short.

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