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Leafs lose 5-2. WTF was that?

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02-28-2013, 11:17 AM
  #601
Sonny21
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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
Again, it's about perception. I don't see many of the players mentioned above doing this quite as often as some would have you believe. Does Kessel avoid hits? Sure does. Why would you take a hit if you don't have to? If he were avoiding if and giving the puck away we'd have a problem, but the numbers show he doesn't give it away any more than the next guy does, and despite 'struggling' is nearly point per game again.
One flaw with such stat being it doesn't count/factor in when kessel gets out of the way when the puck is near him in fear of contact. Or just taking a swipe with his stick instead of taking the hit to clear the puck.

One thing I will agree with, Kessel should not be solely blamed. Our whole top 6 is soft overall.

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02-28-2013, 11:17 AM
  #602
The Apologist
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Originally Posted by Pi View Post
I know it's a terrible stat, but I don't think Kessel is a good defensive player anyway.

We had terrible goaltending for at least 65 of 82 games and were winning despite that before the collapse.
The good thing is, nobody here believes he is.

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02-28-2013, 11:20 AM
  #603
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I thought PP goals do not count for +/-?

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02-28-2013, 11:21 AM
  #604
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I thought PP goals do not count for +/-?
they don't. Unless the other team scores a shorty

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02-28-2013, 11:22 AM
  #605
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Originally Posted by Sonny21 View Post
One flaw with such stat being it doesn't count when kessel gets out of the way when the puck is near him in fear of contact. Or just taking a swipe with his stick instead of taking the hit to clear the puck.

One thing I will agree with, Kessel should not be solely blamed. Our whole top 6 is soft overall.
But no NHL team is made up solely of power forwards.

Again, Kessel will never be that physical guy. What he will almost certainly always be is a nearly or over PpG guy who will get you 30-40 goals, and will constantly be among the best players in the game.

You find size to compliment that player. Nice big 2 at Center. He'll, I think even Alex Steen would look insane between Kessel and JVR.

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02-28-2013, 11:23 AM
  #606
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Originally Posted by black charger View Post
My bad,I forgot to factor in that he doesn't nessessarily get a point every time a goal is scored when he is on the ice.
That's just one of the many mistakes in that post of yours...some of which are basic arithmetic errors.

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02-28-2013, 11:27 AM
  #607
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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
Surely they can do better than some terrible one dimensional player?

On a serious note, win for both teams. Imagine Kessel playing wing for Getz?

Imagine Kadri feeding Perry?
it's a solid trade for both teams. I don't see the Ducks getting more for an unsigned Perry.

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02-28-2013, 11:28 AM
  #608
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pi View Post
Yeah, you have to account for PP points that Kessel had.

Last year Kessel had 23 PP points.

82-23 = 59.

-10 would mean he was on the ice for 69 goals.

Would that be correct?
Nope. Using +/- for what you are attempting is impossible.

All it tells us is that Phil Kessel was on the ice for 10 more 5-on-5 goals (or shorties) against than his team scored while he was.. .on the ice (Austin Powers moment there).

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02-28-2013, 11:30 AM
  #609
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It's amazing how someone can be in the NHL despite not being able to play with the puck. Holzer makes last year's Luke Schenn look like Lidstrom. That's not to say his play without the puck is anything to write home about.

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02-28-2013, 11:32 AM
  #610
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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
Not at all. I think Stamkos is a better player than Kessel. Not by a landslide mind you.

However, I do think Stamkos is severely overrated and very much lacking on the defensive side of the puck. I think if Stammer were playing here in Toronto, he would ripped to shreds and we'd all be talking about how much better so and so is.
I do think Kessel gets severely underrated by a small group around here.
I think you're wrong. Stamkos is a career ppg+ player, something Kessel is not. He averages .56 goals a game. That means he's scoring more than a goal every other game, on average. Kessel, while no doubt a good scorer, only averages .35 goals per game. This season it's down to .19 where Stammer's at .74 gpg. If you qualified your statement with something like 'if Stamkos played here AND dropped to a fraction of his career / expected numbers fans would be on him' then maybe you'd be onto something.

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02-28-2013, 11:35 AM
  #611
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRenegade View Post
I think you're wrong. Stamkos is a career ppg+ player, something Kessel is not. He averages .56 goals a game. That means he's scoring more than a goal every other game, on average. Kessel, while no doubt a good scorer, only averages .35 goals per game. This season it's down to .19 where Stammer's at .74 gpg. If you qualified your statement with something like 'if Stamkos played here AND dropped to a fraction of his career / expected numbers fans would be on him' then maybe you'd be onto something.
I'm saying that if Stamkos were a Leaf, he wouldn't get nearly the love he gets now. I'm saying Stamkos would probably not have nearly the points, and I'm saying that if he isn't putting up points, he isn't contributing nearly as much as some would have you believe. In fact, my entire post was about the defensive side of the equation and you countered it by stating that Stamkos scores more?


That being said, yes, Stamkos is a better player than Phil. What people need to get over is this fact that this makes Phil expendable somehow.

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02-28-2013, 11:39 AM
  #612
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
Yup, but if we trade Phil, it becomes that much harder to find that winger who can put the puck in the net. Ask Sundin..
Agreed, but only if we are able to re-sign him for $6 million or lower for max 5 years. That's my concern, the possibility of losing leverage (ntc kicking in) and kessel asking for ransom $7-8 million.

It would make the world of difference if players could be signed now (those having 1 more year left).

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02-28-2013, 11:42 AM
  #613
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Okay well this game is over and no one seems to actually be talking about the game anymore. Leafs game tonight, PGT is up and GDT should be eventually.

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