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is svatos the next vrbata?

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Old
09-22-2003, 07:47 AM
  #1
DRL
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is svatos the next vrbata?

alot of similarities, rw, shoots right, similar height and weight, what do you think? are their games similar?

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09-22-2003, 08:20 AM
  #2
DarioinDenver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRL
alot of similarities, rw, shoots right, similar height and weight, what do you think? are their games similar?
Personally I think their games are very different. Svatos has better speed, better ability to produce his own shot on the rush and will get into traffic. Vrbata stayed on the outside a lot and created shots off the pass rather than generating his own chances. Vrbata is more of a Hull type who likes to find open areas of ice for his shot and Svatos is more of the Sakic type with speed and good puck control. He also has a blazing wrist shot but would never be confused with Sakics.

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09-22-2003, 08:42 AM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRL
alot of similarities, rw, shoots right, similar height and weight, what do you think? are their games similar?
Svatos is a high energy-type of player that seems to 'charge' his team mates. He's more intense & focused during the game. And isn't afraid to use his body & bang in the corners. Vrbata rarely did that.

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09-22-2003, 09:25 AM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarioinDenver
Vrbata stayed on the outside a lot and created shots off the pass rather than generating his own chances.
We disagree there; Vrbata created his own chances just fine. It's one of the things I liked best about him; he's capable of doing both. Remember the Dallas game when he was placed on the 4th line with Shantz? Vrbata had something like 4 or 5 shots on that line; if he didn't generate his own chances, he wouldn't get that many shots on a line with Shantz. What I disagree with is the wording more than anything. You take a guy like Drury that doesn't use his teammates all that well and generates his own chances rather than work with his teammates. So, please expand your thoughts if you would; I don't know how much I disagree with what you said at the moment.

Also worth mentioning that Svatos' style has caused him some injury problems as well; we'll see if he can sustain such a style in his frame and if he's willing to play the same way against a full NHL roster some day. I tend to give credit to Vrbata for realizing his size limitations and keeping himself healthy. Vrbata is a poor man's Hejduk after all; the big question mark around Svatos is whether he can play that style at this size. That's the only area of doubt I have about Svatos; unfortunately, it's a major point of concern and not a minor thing.

But the answer to the original question is clearly that they aren't similar much at all.

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09-22-2003, 09:48 AM
  #5
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Originally Posted by Laperriere22
We disagree there; Vrbata created his own chances just fine. It's one of the things I liked best about him; he's capable of doing both. Remember the Dallas game when he was placed on the 4th line with Shantz? Vrbata had something like 4 or 5 shots on that line; if he didn't generate his own chances, he wouldn't get that many shots on a line with Shantz. What I disagree with is the wording more than anything. You take a guy like Drury that doesn't use his teammates all that well and generates his own chances rather than work with his teammates. So, please expand your thoughts if you would; I don't know how much I disagree with what you said at the moment.
I think we need to define chances here. Vrbata is cut from the cloth of Guerin and C. Lemieux in that no shot is a bad shot on goal. He will shoot the puck without hesitation, something the Avalanche lacked outside of Hejduk and Sakic at the time. Vrbata didn't generate chances by skating past a defender or giving a fake to open up a defender's leg for a screened shot. Generally speaking he worked off give and goes, rebounds and one timers usually in the high slot. Vrbata didn't generate his own chances with his skating, or shall we say while in possession of the puck. That is what I mean by generating his own chance. Drury and Forsberg are good examples of players that generate their own scoring chances when they possess the puck. I don't see that aspect to Vrbata's game. Like I said, he likes voids in the defense where he can set up. Or, from the high slot he will give one deke then a wrist shot. Most of his scoring success doesn't come from that type of play however. As far as having 5 shots on goal with Shatnz, well even a easy save is still a shot on goal. It's just the way I've seen Radim.

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09-22-2003, 10:14 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarioinDenver
I think we need to define chances here. Vrbata is cut from the cloth of Guerin and C. Lemieux in that no shot is a bad shot on goal. He will shoot the puck without hesitation, something the Avalanche lacked outside of Hejduk and Sakic at the time. Vrbata didn't generate chances by skating past a defender or giving a fake to open up a defender's leg for a screened shot. Generally speaking he worked off give and goes, rebounds and one timers usually in the high slot. Vrbata didn't generate his own chances with his skating, or shall we say while in possession of the puck. That is what I mean by generating his own chance. Drury and Forsberg are good examples of players that generate their own scoring chances when they possess the puck. I don't see that aspect to Vrbata's game. Like I said, he likes voids in the defense where he can set up. Or, from the high slot he will give one deke then a wrist shot. Most of his scoring success doesn't come from that type of play however. As far as having 5 shots on goal with Shatnz, well even a easy save is still a shot on goal. It's just the way I've seen Radim.
That's what I wanted expansion on; thanks. I do agree that Vrbata isn't going to generate a lot of chances off of one-on-one moves. It's not his preferred modus operandi by any means, but I've seen him create in those situations before. My problem with your original comment is that I inferred from it that Vrbata was almost unable to create his own chances. Vrbata's first instinct isn't to take on a guy in most cases and I agree with that. But, outside of the time when Granato was dicking with him, Vrbata showed the ability to create if that's what needed to be done to get a shot off. His time with Shantz against Dallas wasn't a bunch of easy saves; he spent time creating because Shantz can't and the other winger couldn't either (don't remember if it was Messier or Aubin at the time). He had a couple of games when Granato was riding him where he was exceptionally timid and a couple of others where he would just fire in a long shot without a screen. But, those occasions were more the exception rather than the rule IMO.

So, what would you say about Hejduk's game?

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09-22-2003, 10:46 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laperriere22
So, what would you say about Hejduk's game?
Hrm, well I'd say he has many of the same qualities. Hejduk is a much stronger puck handler and can create shots on his own with a toe drag and his stick handling abilities. I'd also say that Hejduk is much more selective with his shots and more accurate. Classifying Vrbata as a poor mans Hejduk is a good description but Hejduk can do more things. Hejduk has some of the best shot accuracy in the game so it's very hard to compare anyone to that. One thing is for certain, Vrbata is no longer a secret and won't be overshadowed by bigger names with Carolina. He may very well need to generate his own shots and prove me wrong.

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09-22-2003, 11:41 AM
  #8
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Vrbata was pure speed. When he was on his game, he could race out from the corner in the offensive zone and keep the puck inside the blueline, turnit around for a scoring opportunity.

His only fault was that he wasn't very physical, never got in front of the net and created chances down low. Svatos is more willing to do that.

But as L22 pointed out, he's had a bit of a problem with injuries.

Nonetheless, I'd rather see him on the 3rd line this season than Willsie or Hinote.

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09-22-2003, 12:11 PM
  #9
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I really want to see Svatos play now. I just checked, and tomorrow's game is radio only here in LA. Hopefully he'll stick around long enough I can at least get a peek. From the descriptions I'm reading, it sounds like he's kind of like Granato was when he played. I have questions about how a little guy like that can survive in today's NHL, but I like the fact that he's an energy player, we can always use those, and if they are skilled, that's certainly a bonus.

As far as a comparison to Vrbata, it sounds like Svatos is capable of giving the team a shot in the arm with his energy; Vrbata did that some in his short time with the Avs.

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09-22-2003, 12:22 PM
  #10
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I would like to see Svatos stick with the NHL club also. I've seen him play only twice but the guys got the skills to be something really good if he can stay healthy.

I could see him playing on the 3rd line with Battaglia and Nikolishin and then put Worrell, Hahl and Hinote on the 4th.

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09-22-2003, 01:02 PM
  #11
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Originally Posted by DarioinDenver
Hrm, well I'd say he has many of the same qualities. Hejduk is a much stronger puck handler and can create shots on his own with a toe drag and his stick handling abilities. I'd also say that Hejduk is much more selective with his shots and more accurate. Classifying Vrbata as a poor mans Hejduk is a good description but Hejduk can do more things. Hejduk has some of the best shot accuracy in the game so it's very hard to compare anyone to that. One thing is for certain, Vrbata is no longer a secret and won't be overshadowed by bigger names with Carolina. He may very well need to generate his own shots and prove me wrong.
And I would agree. Hejduk can do more things than Vrbata, but a lot of that has to do with confidence and age too. None of us saw Hejduk at 20 and 21, but my bet is he was a lot like Vrbata is now. I know that during Hejduk's rookie year, when he was already 22 and approaching 23, he was nothing like the Hejduk most of us have come to know. He took a lot of big hits, was rather timid, and did not have the confidence to use the toe drag and his other moves like he does now.

Basically, my guess is that Vrbata will improve quite similarly to Hejduk as he builds confidence and finds a comfort level with the Canes. I don't think he's going to be exactly like Hejduk either, but I believe his game will round into shape much more as he gets a little older and finds a coach that will use him in offensive situations, something Granato hated doing. Just want everyone to keep that in mind when talking about Vrbata's game, including myself because it's easy to think that the Vrbata we see now is going to be the same Vrbata in 5 years. Chances are that Vrbata will be improved by then, but there's as good a chance he's equal or worse to what he is now. I do believe that Vrbata is more sound defensively than Hejduk was during his rookie year as well. It's too easy for any of us to forget some of the ages these players are at and how much time they have to develop and how much they still have to prove.

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09-22-2003, 01:14 PM
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re: Svatos

I had the pleasure of watching Svatos play a handful of junior games with Kootenay a few years back, and it sounds like he has developed quite nicely. You could see in junior that he had the ability to dominate offensively, but what was questioned of him was his grit, determination, etc, all those kind of things that those small Europeans are usually faced with over coming. When the Avs stole Svatos late in the draft a few years ago, it seemed like a perfect fit. I think in two or three years, if he can withstand the rigors of the NHL, he has the makings of a star.

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09-22-2003, 11:56 PM
  #13
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Hejduk's main problem his first year was keeping his head down too much to look at the puck when making his moves. Over the next two years he worked on it and it came together. He also seemed to have a low confidence in taking shots (as exhibited in his lower goal totals his rookie season).

Now, whereas Vrbata has neither of the noted problems, he sometimes would rather just throw it on net completely rather than try out a move. Possibly after his confidence goes up more and he works on his puck handling a bit more, he'll be a bigger offensive threat. The same thing goes for his decision of shooting vs. passing. But for now, he's a perimeter shooter who relies on law of averages and his pure accuracy to hit the back of the net. He's still got a big step to take to get his game up, for now he's filled out nicely, but could still wind up being only a 20 goal scorer who finds most of his action taking perimeter shots.

From the sounds of it Svatos is more eager to approach traffic, and has better playmaking instincts than Vrbata making him the less of a pure goalscorer among the two. Still haven't seen Svatos play though. :mad:

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09-23-2003, 11:57 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensane
Hejduk's main problem his first year was keeping his head down too much to look at the puck when making his moves. Over the next two years he worked on it and it came together. He also seemed to have a low confidence in taking shots (as exhibited in his lower goal totals his rookie season).

Now, whereas Vrbata has neither of the noted problems, he sometimes would rather just throw it on net completely rather than try out a move. Possibly after his confidence goes up more and he works on his puck handling a bit more, he'll be a bigger offensive threat. The same thing goes for his decision of shooting vs. passing. But for now, he's a perimeter shooter who relies on law of averages and his pure accuracy to hit the back of the net. He's still got a big step to take to get his game up, for now he's filled out nicely, but could still wind up being only a 20 goal scorer who finds most of his action taking perimeter shots.
I don't have a problem with that assessment either. Like I said, it's anyone's guess how Vrbata will develop in Carolina. I do know that none of us saw Hejduk's game at 20 and 21, like we did with Vrbata's. I think Hejduk's game at 20 and 21 would have been pretty similar actually. If people would have been claiming Hejduk would win the Richard trophy based on his rookie year performance, the people saying that would have been branded with the scarlet letter ("H" being the letter in this case). That's the funny thing with hockey players and how they develop.

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09-23-2003, 07:40 PM
  #15
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I would say Vrbata has higher upside just because he seems to be a better finisher, but Svatos could turn into a 2nd line player possibly. Really impressed me the other night when he played with Sakic and Kariya. As mentioned, he's more willing to drive the net than Vrbata and gets his nose dirty quite a bit. Svatos does not seem to have Vrbata's offensive ability though.

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