Perfect solution logical fallacy. If you have to invoke the worst and most cowardly cheap shot artists to make a point, you're probably reaching.
What ARE you going to do about guys like that? Beat them with your power play, like GMGM said? What happens when your PP fails, or your guys keep getting injured from cheap shots from all kinds of players throughout the league, as we saw before with this team?
Plus, if you've got an enforcer that isn't a cog in the rest of your strategies (unlike an Erskine who's more of a stay at home D that fights, and is needed in the lineup) other teams will know you have a guy who will probably take a suspension to deliver a message. You have a guy who knows he may be called on to do something nasty, and the other team knows it, too. And it has nothing to do with scripted fights between heavyweights.
You realize I said I thought it was a good move, right? I was reacting to the idea that it will protect Green. (Although Green mostly gets hit on clean plays anyway.)
It may work in the sense that it gives the team more confidence. It may keep Zac Rinaldo from doing something. There's no reason for it to work as a deterrent on a player like Rene Bourque. Why would Bourque be worried about a player he knows is irrelevant to him?
Because if Bourque wouldn't fight Volpatti, someone on his team would have to - and Bourque would have to be accountable to the teammate who had to take a punch from Volpatti in order to answer for Bourque's antics. And you can bet that sort of internal accountability (and its potential impact in the locker room) makes guys think about the consequences of taking liberties. Guys hated to play with Sean Avery, because someone else always had to answer for his crap.
The word has been out for a while on our team - you can take shots at Green or Nicky or Semin when he was here, and not worry at all about you or anyone else having to answer for it. I don't think GMGM ever adequately appreciated what Brash did for our skill guys (even though he was smart enough to go out and get him) and he's never adequately filled that hole.
Everyone remembers the Brash/Sutherby/et. al. mauling game in response to Andy Sutton a few years ago, but there was another Thrashers game further back when someone on the Thrashers cheap-shotted a skill guy (Gonch maybe, or Dahlen), and as soon the puck dropped after the whistle Konowalchuk just attacked Andrew Brunette. It was a mauling and a message - we have got to have more of that kind of jam in the lineup.
You realize I said I thought it was a good move, right? I was reacting to the idea that it will protect Green. (Although Green mostly gets hit on clean plays anyway.)
And? My statements address, in detail, your contention that it's "absurd" that Green will benefit from an enforcer.
Because if Bourque wouldn't fight Volpatti, someone on his team would have to - and Bourque would have to be accountable to the teammate who had to take a punch from Volpatti in order to answer for Bourque's antics. And you can bet that sort of internal accountability (and its potential impact in the locker room) makes guys think about the consequences of taking liberties. Guys hated to play with Sean Avery, because someone else always had to answer for his crap.
The word has been out for a while on our team - you can take shots at Green or Nicky or Semin when he was here, and not worry at all about you or anyone else having to answer for it. I don't think GMGM ever adequately appreciated what Brash did for our skill guys (even though he was smart enough to go out and get him) and he's never adequately filled that hole.
Everyone remembers the Brash/Sutherby/et. al. mauling game in response to Andy Sutton a few years ago, but there was another Thrashers game further back when someone on the Thrashers cheap-shotted a skill guy (Gonch maybe, or Dahlen), and as soon the puck dropped after the whistle Konowalchuk just attacked Andrew Brunette. It was a mauling and a message - we have got to have more of that kind of jam in the lineup.
Because if Bourque wouldn't fight Volpatti, someone on his team would have to - and Bourque would have to be accountable to the teammate who had to take a punch from Volpatti in order to answer for Bourque's antics. And you can bet that sort of internal accountability (and its potential impact in the locker room) makes guys think about the consequences of taking liberties. Guys hated to play with Sean Avery, because someone else always had to answer for his crap.
The word has been out for a while on our team - you can take shots at Green or Nicky or Semin when he was here, and not worry at all about you or anyone else having to answer for it. I don't think GMGM ever adequately appreciated what Brash did for our skill guys (even though he was smart enough to go out and get him) and he's never adequately filled that hole.
Everyone remembers the Brash/Sutherby/et. al. mauling game in response to Andy Sutton a few years ago, but there was another Thrashers game further back when someone on the Thrashers cheap-shotted a skill guy (Gonch maybe, or Dahlen), and as soon the puck dropped after the whistle Konowalchuk just attacked Andrew Brunette. It was a mauling and a message - we have got to have more of that kind of jam in the lineup.
I agree with you. But one guy willing to stand up for the team isn't going to make any difference. We need a few more guys with that mentality.
I agree with you. But one guy willing to stand up for the team isn't going to make any difference. We need a few more guys with that mentality.
Yeah, basically. Enforcers are paid to be enforcers, and I don't think Rene Bourque cares that he's making his earn his job when he makes a questionable hit. This move is a step in the right direction, but the soft attitude that pervades the roster is the real problem.
Wolski looks worse than Crabb to me. We knew Crabb was a 4th liner, 3rd line tweener at best. Wolski was supposed to rejuvinate his career this year now that he's finally healthy. He's been worse than terrible outside of that 1st Philly game.
Wolski looks worse than Crabb to me. We knew Crabb was a 4th liner, 3rd line tweener at best. Wolski was supposed to rejuvinate his career this year now that he's finally healthy. He's been worse than terrible outside of that 1st Philly game.
If you do that then who plays on the non-4th line? Crabb or Volpatti?
Yeah, basically. Enforcers are paid to be enforcers, and I don't think Rene Bourque cares that he's making his earn his job when he makes a questionable hit. This move is a step in the right direction, but the soft attitude that pervades the roster is the real problem.
I forgot what game I was watching a few days ago but someone got boarded and pretty much the entire team wanted a piece of the guy who made the hit.
When Big John got boarded a couple of games ago there wasn't a single guy willing to do or even say anything to the Hurricane that did it.
I agree with you. But one guy willing to stand up for the team isn't going to make any difference. We need a few more guys with that mentality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberati0n
This move is a step in the right direction, but the soft attitude that pervades the roster is the real problem.
Agree with both of these statements. Good teams are close-knit, and close-knit teams stand up for each other. That's what's unsettling about what happened last night. One of MattyP's strengths is his confidence with the puck - even if Oates was right and he shouldn't have been dangling 3 guys with his head down (all true), he's gonna feel less tentative if he knows that if he gets tattooed the other guys aren't just gonna stay around and ask him if he's OK.
The thing is McPhee knows all this - he was a very honest (and obviously very tough) player. He just seems to be clinging to this mind-set that it's still post-lockout 2005, and the Cup can be won with skill and without physicality. But the speedy 2006 and 2007 Buffalo Sabres never won a cup (never made the finals), but Brian Burke and Randy Carlyle's Ducks did.
Anway good on him for going to get a Brown guy who will stand up for his 'mates.
You know what having a goon or some crazy in the lineup does?
No, he will not become Green's personal body guard. They are rarely on the ice together.
AV Pacquette, Mitchell, they distract the other team. The guy going after Green may have his attention turned to one of his own guys. We go after their soft noodle on their defense, how is that for a new plan.
Sometimes a good defense is a good offense. Bruce knows what I am talking about.
Its all a part of the bigger picture, being more difficult to play against.
While I dig picking up a gritty player with some balls, I don't really buy Volpatti as an "enforcer." Sure, he'll scrap and can actually win a fight, but he's not a heavyweight. He's certainly not an enforcer in the vein of someone like Brashear.
I am pleased that Crabb should be on the bench now. AV doesn't really impact Wolski, they're playing completely different roles. If we picked up Mursak (still a little puzzled why we didn't) off of waivers a few days ago, then Wolski (and Chimera) would have been in trouble.
You know what having a goon or some crazy in the lineup does?
No, he will not become Green's personal body guard. They are rarely on the ice together.
AV Pacquette, Mitchell, they distract the other team. The guy going after Green may have his attention turned to one of his own guys. We go after their soft noodle on their defense, how is that for a new plan.
Sometimes a good defense is a good offense. Bruce knows what I am talking about.
Its all a part of the bigger picture, being more difficult to play against.
Then we need to go for a true goon, and I'm not sure Volpatti is that.
Other teams didn't F with us when Brash was here, 'coz Brash did not give a flying ****. You tried to mess with our superstars, he was coming after you. He would do whatever it takes - sucker punches, getting thrown out, all kinds of questionable crap. And I loved it. And thats probably what we need.
Then we need to go for a true goon, and I'm not sure Volpatti is that.
Other teams didn't F with us when Brash was here, 'coz Brash did not give a flying ****. You tried to messed with our superstars, he was coming after you. He would do whatever it takes - sucker punches, getting thrown out, all kinds of questionable crap. And I loved it. And thats probably what we need.
What you say maybe true but RH makes a good point too.
The more "crazy" on the team the better. Every little bit counts. If we can't find an enforcer then have 3 or 4 guys like Hendricks is a good pack tactic.
