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Avalanche match Calgary's Offer Sheet for ROR

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Old
03-01-2013, 01:23 AM
  #351
Djp
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Originally Posted by DumFries View Post
This is why lockouts happen. Way to go Jay Feaster.

The Avs trolled you back.
actually Feaster made a smart move.

1. Calgary is looking to rebuild this offseason so his salary wont be as big of an impact on the team because of the other players on this team. they dont have other FAs who will start asking for more than what he makes.

2. They handcuff their division rival by either taking compensation or matching it. Matching it throws their salary out of whack, the compensation doesnt get what they felt they could get based on a trade. Colorado believed they could get 3 quality assets in a deal (2 quality young players + 1st).

3. Now Colorado either is handcuffed in the future or forces them to trade him in next season to the Eastern conference...thus likely limiting Calgary ever seeing him much. Personally because of the trading deadline being next year, I would have told him to wait until around March 7 to offer this deal.

Part of the reason they matched the deal so quickly likely has to to with the one year clock starting. If they waited a week, then its possible the clock doesnt start until after next years trading deadline.

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03-01-2013, 01:26 AM
  #352
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Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post
If anything, Colorado just saved Calgary from itself
Actually Calgary would have been fine....at next years trade deadline they could have traded him and still gotten 2 NHL players/picks at least equivalent to a #1 and #3. Remember draft picks are so uncertain---but trading for younger NHL players who are in their early 20s usually are a much better forecaster to their NHL success likelihood.

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03-01-2013, 01:52 AM
  #353
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Originally Posted by Djp View Post
actually Feaster made a smart move.

1. Calgary is looking to rebuild this offseason so his salary wont be as big of an impact on the team because of the other players on this team. they dont have other FAs who will start asking for more than what he makes.

2. They handcuff their division rival by either taking compensation or matching it. Matching it throws their salary out of whack, the compensation doesnt get what they felt they could get based on a trade. Colorado believed they could get 3 quality assets in a deal (2 quality young players + 1st).

3. Now Colorado either is handcuffed in the future or forces them to trade him in next season to the Eastern conference...thus likely limiting Calgary ever seeing him much. Personally because of the trading deadline being next year, I would have told him to wait until around March 7 to offer this deal.

Part of the reason they matched the deal so quickly likely has to to with the one year clock starting. If they waited a week, then its possible the clock doesnt start until after next years trading deadline.
Conference realignment makes it a big possibility he ends up back in the Flames division if he does get traded (which he probably won't). I do believe if Feaster and Sherman are both still around when Baertschi comes a RFA, he better have him signed before he reaches that status.

Avs will have a vendetta and will most likely still not have an explosive scoring winger, so they'd go after him hard.

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03-01-2013, 02:10 AM
  #354
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Meh... RoR is a 2nd line C who is really good in his own zone. He doesn't deserve that much $. I personally wouldn't matched it if I was Avs. They got Duchene and Stastny (declining a bit maybe but still solid) and that pick would've been top 10, maybe even as high as 5th overall IMO. That draftee would've been better than RoR without a doubt.

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03-01-2013, 02:19 AM
  #355
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Originally Posted by PAZ View Post
Conference realignment makes it a big possibility he ends up back in the Flames division if he does get traded (which he probably won't). I do believe if Feaster and Sherman are both still around when Baertschi comes a RFA, he better have him signed before he reaches that status.

Avs will have a vendetta and will most likely still not have an explosive scoring winger, so they'd go after him hard.
Well if we end up acting like cheapasses to a young potential star player, we'd probably deserve it. Don't be pissy at the Flames, it's not like we came in on July 1st with this offer. You had plenty of time to not lowball your player.

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03-01-2013, 02:26 AM
  #356
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Originally Posted by Ewan McGregor View Post
Umm based on what? Unless Flames get a top 3 pick you're wrong.
Monahan, Shinkaruk, Jones, MacKinnon, Drouin, Barkov, Lindholm just to mention a few who is gonna surpass RoR without a doubt in my mind.

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03-01-2013, 02:28 AM
  #357
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Originally Posted by flameaholic View Post
Oh well. Nice try Jay! Still without a #1 center.
You have a bigger chance of getting a #1 C with your 1st rounder than what you had with RoR tbh...

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03-01-2013, 02:53 AM
  #358
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Originally Posted by CaptainCally View Post
You have a bigger chance of getting a #1 C with your 1st rounder than what you had with RoR tbh...
Calgary would get 6th pick where they are at now with 18 points, just one point more than Buffalo which would have the 3rd overall pick at 17 points. Calgary could easily slip into the top three if they go on a losing skid.

No disrespect to Flames fans but I hope you guys lose and get a high draft pick to build around, maybe you guys will get lucky and land Mackinnon.

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Old
03-01-2013, 02:59 AM
  #359
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Agreeing with the group saying the Avs saved Calgary from themselves.

This is a terrible contract. This will haunt the Avs in future years while Calgary keeps their well placed pick and drafts a good, young talent that the Avs passed up on to over-pay a greedy center.

O'Reilly's probably gone in 2 years no matter what. Bridges were burned. He's gone.

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03-01-2013, 03:13 AM
  #360
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Originally Posted by AvsFan20 View Post
Agreeing with the group saying the Avs saved Calgary from themselves.

This is a terrible contract. This will haunt the Avs in future years while Calgary keeps their well placed pick and drafts a good, young talent that the Avs passed up on to over-pay a greedy center.

O'Reilly's probably gone in 2 years no matter what. Bridges were burned. He's gone.
A 10 million golden bridge ... Not bad.

How can O'Reily deal with his teamates now ?

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03-01-2013, 03:15 AM
  #361
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Gotta wonder if Feaster was doing Sherman a favor all along.

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03-01-2013, 03:51 AM
  #362
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Originally Posted by CaptainCally View Post
Meh... RoR is a 2nd line C who is really good in his own zone. He doesn't deserve that much $. I personally wouldn't matched it if I was Avs. They got Duchene and Stastny (declining a bit maybe but still solid) and that pick would've been top 10, maybe even as high as 5th overall IMO. That draftee would've been better than RoR without a doubt.
I think Avalanche management were afraid of the Flames getting hot and coming close to (or even clinching) a playoff spot.

Then they'd be looking at a 15th Overall pick for their 21-year-old former leading point scorer, which would surely get a few people fired given Colorado's continuing struggles.

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Old
03-01-2013, 05:05 AM
  #363
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Originally Posted by Djp View Post
actually Feaster made a smart move.

1. Calgary is looking to rebuild this offseason so his salary wont be as big of an impact on the team because of the other players on this team. they dont have other FAs who will start asking for more than what he makes.

2. They handcuff their division rival by either taking compensation or matching it. Matching it throws their salary out of whack, the compensation doesnt get what they felt they could get based on a trade. Colorado believed they could get 3 quality assets in a deal (2 quality young players + 1st).

3. Now Colorado either is handcuffed in the future or forces them to trade him in next season to the Eastern conference...thus likely limiting Calgary ever seeing him much. Personally because of the trading deadline being next year, I would have told him to wait until around March 7 to offer this deal.

Part of the reason they matched the deal so quickly likely has to to with the one year clock starting. If they waited a week, then its possible the clock doesnt start until after next years trading deadline.
Please, Colorado was 'handcuffed' by O'Reilly from the start. Jay Feaster only played the role of antagonist to get the story moving. He wanted O'Reilly but wouldn't pay him enough that Colorado would just give him up. He tried to backload the deal to make it less enticing for Colorado. That did not work at all apparently as the deal was signed 2-3 hours after the initial offer sheet went through.

Feaster wanted O'Reilly, but not enough to make something happen. Colorado may have overpaid slightly but they aren't in cap trouble. It obviously wasn't that hard to accept the offer, it isn't what they wanted but they have three capable 1st/2nd line centres while Calgary still has one.

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Old
03-01-2013, 05:52 AM
  #364
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Originally Posted by The Shermanator View Post
ROR, EJ and Wilson back into the lineup will work wonders. I can see the Avs breaking Chicago's streak.
I agree

The hawks have yet to beat a northwest division team in regulation time.

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Old
03-01-2013, 06:08 AM
  #365
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I'm still not too sure how good that really was for Colorado. They got a really good player back who can definitely help. But I still don't think that the Avs can/will make the playoffs this year. So an additional probably late 1st rounder from Calgary would've been better IMO. The Avs could have got two great players (maybe MacKinnon+Drouin or Drouin+Barkov or something like that).

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03-01-2013, 06:11 AM
  #366
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Originally Posted by Michael Gary Scott View Post
So what's the next sideshow?
Ovechkin

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Old
03-01-2013, 06:36 AM
  #367
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Again, if Flames fans can take anything positive from this it's that at least we know the Flames are trying to address their problem down the middle.

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03-01-2013, 06:46 AM
  #368
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I really think people are looking at this wrong. I don't believe O'Reilly "Doesn't want to play for Colorado and will be gone before the contract is up or immediately after". O'reilly is intelligent, he knew Colorado would match this offer. He knew this was a way out of the mess and still be with the team and get closer to the money he wanted. I think this was more than he wanted really and the Avs RFA's will not look at the contract as "Well he makes that much, we need that much or more".

Colorado is going to be fine, the wounds will be healed, I think we'll see an extension this off-season.

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03-01-2013, 06:55 AM
  #369
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Originally Posted by PAZ View Post
Conference realignment makes it a big possibility he ends up back in the Flames division if he does get traded (which he probably won't). I do believe if Feaster and Sherman are both still around when Baertschi comes a RFA, he better have him signed before he reaches that status.

Avs will have a vendetta and will most likely still not have an explosive scoring winger, so they'd go after him hard.
HAHAHA! the last thing Calg has to worry about is revenge from that cheap a$$ organization.

Col would be too terrified to OS anyone, incase they actually got the player.

Sour grapes from a few but hurt fans, ohhhh the horrors, AHHHHAHA!!!

Well, at least now the team can skulk back into irrelevance where it belongs.

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03-01-2013, 07:09 AM
  #370
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Originally Posted by TheStranger View Post
I really think people are looking at this wrong. I don't believe O'Reilly "Doesn't want to play for Colorado and will be gone before the contract is up or immediately after". O'reilly is intelligent, he knew Colorado would match this offer. He knew this was a way out of the mess and still be with the team and get closer to the money he wanted. I think this was more than he wanted really and the Avs RFA's will not look at the contract as "Well he makes that much, we need that much or more".

Colorado is going to be fine, the wounds will be healed, I think we'll see an extension this off-season.

Fine and dandy and rose colored and all. The one thing missing in your equation is PL and the Avs management philosophy. Name one player besides Joe Sakic who was not shipped out after a contract dispute.
And in this one they got owned pretty badly. And I am pretty sure that PL is furious about it. ROR should only rent for a year..

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03-01-2013, 07:28 AM
  #371
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Fine and dandy and rose colored and all. The one thing missing in your equation is PL and the Avs management philosophy. Name one player besides Joe Sakic who was not shipped out after a contract dispute.
And in this one they got owned pretty badly. And I am pretty sure that PL is furious about it. ROR should only rent for a year..
I guess we'll wait and see. If they can get a better package for him than he himself brings, then they should be looking for that regardless of contract dispute, just like they should for any player on the team including Duchene and Landeskog.

It seems to me they want him on the team more than anything, didn't exactly happen in a pretty way, but it happened.

Doesn't really matter, hopefully he tears it up and they can get a hell of a package for him if he is moved, if not then we still have O'Reilly.

I just hope that, if by some chance they DO want to keep him, they know sooner rather than later if he has any intentions of staying before the second year is up/.

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03-01-2013, 07:44 AM
  #372
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Becuase their back was against a wall. Flames could have offered the same contract for Subban had he still been holding out. I don't think the Habs would have liked to pay him that much, but would do so not to lose him. There is no way to know when an offersheet is coming.
Ya I get that. I just can't see how this is going to work out well for them. I guess they're hoping he proves himself more over the next year so they can go through this whole RFA charade again in hopes they can get a little more... Just seems like a move that could not go over well with other team mates.

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03-01-2013, 07:50 AM
  #373
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
And then, there's less money for someone else right? Same thing in the end.

Mind you, Plekanec is a 1B, makes 5 mil per. Grabovski is a 1B or a #2 and makes...5.5.

O'Reilly is a #2 with upside, makes 5 per? Oh no!
Problem is, O'Reilly is only $5M player if he is on a team willing to spend above the cap. I am under the impression that Colordao has an internal budget below the cap, which means that O'Reilly is a $6.5M player for them. That is a big risk for a player with a career high of 55 points. Yes, he is only 21, but that doesn't mean he is guaranteed to see a dramatic jump in production.

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03-01-2013, 07:58 AM
  #374
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Originally Posted by Faltorvo View Post
HAHAHA! the last thing Calg has to worry about is revenge from that cheap a$$ organization.

Col would be too terrified to OS anyone, incase they actually got the player.

Sour grapes from a few but hurt fans, ohhhh the horrors, AHHHHAHA!!!

Well, at least now the team can skulk back into irrelevance where it belongs.
Didn't the Flames just blow a 3 goal lead to this irrelevant team while said irrelevant team was missing two of their top dmen and 2/3rds of their best line from last year?
The Avs have won 2 cups since Calgary's last SC win. Mr Pot, meet Mr Kettle.
BTW, if they are so cheap, why would they match such a huge payday for RoR? (Not that I think they should have matched).

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Old
03-01-2013, 08:14 AM
  #375
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
At end of the day, even if O'Reilly got 12 per, what is the max salary that can be spent? It doesn't change. So, media made people believe individual prices were the reason for the lockout, nope.

The reason, money wise is the following:

Total salary spent, not individual salaries. If a team decides to spend 12 mil each for 4 players they spend .5 mil on the rest, makes zero difference in terms of salary cost. It just makes it harder to build a team.

Salary variance, front loading and term. Limiting this will create a better playing field between big and small markets and reduce the risks with contracts.

O'Reilly's contract fits neither, someone overpaid but it doesn't hurt the game.
It does in the sense that other RFA's can use this contract as a point of leverage in their own discussions.

This is how salaries get thrown out of whack

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