HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Avalanche match Calgary's Offer Sheet for ROR

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-02-2013, 05:34 PM
  #701
Djp
Registered User
 
Djp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Seattle,WA
Posts: 6,361
vCash: 500
Has the NHL issued a statement regarding this rule?

If ROR played a KHL game after league play began why wouldnt Colorado need to have him clear waivers to play for them?

Djp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2013, 05:36 PM
  #702
blankall
Registered User
 
blankall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,309
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgf View Post
If GMGM passed on ROR because of Ribeiro he'd deserve to be fired to.
Ribeiro is their only good player right now.

blankall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2013, 06:03 PM
  #703
Paranoid Android
ERMAHGERD
 
Paranoid Android's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: CO
Posts: 11,708
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
This whole rule is unclear thing or it being a matter of interpretation is just a way for Feaster and Flames to save face. They got caught with their pants down and they are desperately scrambling.
This reasoning is an absolute stretch. Especially since 4 other GMs submitted offer sheets. As well as Sherman, O'Reilly's agent, and an NHLPA adviser also believed 13.23 didn't apply.

Paranoid Android is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2013, 06:06 PM
  #704
Petes2424
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,844
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Djp View Post
Has the NHL issued a statement regarding this rule?

If ROR played a KHL game after league play began why wouldnt Colorado need to have him clear waivers to play for them?
I believe it's due to their already owning his rights and he had been qualified.

Petes2424 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2013, 06:10 PM
  #705
Freudian
Deja vu again?
 
Freudian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Sweden
Posts: 31,405
vCash: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
This reasoning is an absolute stretch. Especially since 4 other GMs submitted offer sheets. As well as Sherman, O'Reilly's agent, and an NHLPA adviser also believed 13.23 didn't apply.
Teams submitted offer sheets because they weren't aware that he had played games in KHL after the NHL season started (NHL has to own part of the blame here since they didn't flag the player). Not because they were unclear about the rules. They had no idea this rule was even in play.

I guess they assumed an agent wouldn't be dumb enough to let his client do something like that so they didn't do their due diligence on the situation.

Freudian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2013, 06:13 PM
  #706
Bubba Thudd
Moderator
#AvsNewAge
 
Bubba Thudd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Avaland
Posts: 13,022
vCash: 1472
and who's to say O'Reiily's agent didn't know about the rule?

They reportedly had 4 offer sheets (a member of the Avs forum is friends with ROR), but didn't sign. Well, until an offer that was just too good to pass up came along. At 6.5M next year, ROR had to sign, and probably didn't care if he ended up with COL, CGY, or CBJ for that kind of cash.

__________________
I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger
Bubba Thudd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2013, 06:13 PM
  #707
Paranoid Android
ERMAHGERD
 
Paranoid Android's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: CO
Posts: 11,708
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
Teams submitted offer sheets because they weren't aware that he had played games in KHL after the NHL season started (NHL has to own part of the blame here since they didn't flag the player). Not because they were unclear about the rules. They had no idea this rule was even in play.

I guess they assumed an agent wouldn't be dumb enough to let his client do something like that so they didn't do their due diligence on the situation.
Please back these statements up with sources. All evidence says you are wrong.

Paranoid Android is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2013, 06:18 PM
  #708
Freudian
Deja vu again?
 
Freudian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Sweden
Posts: 31,405
vCash: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
Please back these statements up with sources. All evidence says you are wrong.
You think five teams would submit offer sheets without checking with NHL if the player would have to be exposed to waivers?

The rule is clear. It hasn't changed since the last CBA (for teams using offer sheets). No one thought the rule was in play. Use common sense.

Freudian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2013, 06:28 PM
  #709
TheHudlinator
Registered User
 
TheHudlinator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Victoria,BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,928
vCash: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
No.

It says "All Players on a Club’s Reserve List and Restricted Free Agent List".

In this case, it would be Colorado's Reserve List. A player can only be on one teams Reserve List.

This whole rule is unclear thing or it being a matter of interpretation is just a way for Feaster and Flames to save face. They got caught with their pants down and they are desperately scrambling.

Yes and ROR is on a RFA list therefore he is not waiver eligible it does not address the case of the player being offer sheeted nor does it say that said player is only non-waiver eligible for the team who has him on their RFA list it simply says that any player that is on a RFA doesn't need waivers.

TheHudlinator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2013, 06:32 PM
  #710
Paranoid Android
ERMAHGERD
 
Paranoid Android's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: CO
Posts: 11,708
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
You think five teams would submit offer sheets without checking with NHL if the player would have to be exposed to waivers?

The rule is clear. It hasn't changed since the last CBA (for teams using offer sheets). No one thought the rule was in play. Use common sense.
Your common sense tells you that GMs and staff who are directly involved with the writing of the CBA, and who have access to documents that none of us do, know less on this matter than Chris Johnston from Sportsnet and Joe Blow from HFBoards?

Funny, my common sense tells me the opposite.

Paranoid Android is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2013, 06:39 PM
  #711
Freudian
Deja vu again?
 
Freudian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Sweden
Posts: 31,405
vCash: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
Your common sense tells you that GMs and staff who are directly involved with the writing of the CBA, and who have access to documents that none of us do, know less on this matter than Chris Johnston from Sportsnet and Joe Blow from HFBoards?

Funny, my common sense tells me the opposite.
I am saying that everyone involved knew exactly what the rules are (excluding Feaster pretending he did not after being caught with his pants down). I'm saying they weren't aware the rule was in play.

So you think the agent knew he has played in KHL after the deadline but just didn't care to mention it to any team while shopping for offer sheets?

Alternatively, all teams were informed about this but no one could be bothered to check if the rules still were the same as they had been during the last CBA and the player would have to be exposed to waivers, just like Nabokov was?

Here is what O'Reilly's agent said when asked about if he knew about O'Reilly would have to go through waivers if Calgary signed him.

“Certainly not, or I never would have put Jay or Calgary or any other team in that situation”

Freudian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2013, 06:56 PM
  #712
bluesfan94
#BackesforSelke
 
bluesfan94's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: St. Louis
Country: United States
Posts: 8,830
vCash: 500
So ROR's agent thought the wouldn't have to go one waivers? Another person on Feaster's side.

bluesfan94 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2013, 07:07 PM
  #713
me2
Seahawks 43
 
me2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Broncos 8
Country: Wallis & Futuna
Posts: 19,347
vCash: 1000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
Your common sense tells you that GMs and staff who are directly involved with the writing of the CBA, and who have access to documents that none of us do, know less on this matter than Chris Johnston from Sportsnet and Joe Blow from HFBoards?

Funny, my common sense tells me the opposite.
As opposed to the people that actually drafted it (NHL management and a mountain of lawyers), 25 gms and that didn't tender offer sheets because they did due diligence?

Vs some gms that didn't do due diligence and Feaster who now claims he was told O'Reilly would have to go through waivers and did the offersheet anyway.

I have to hope Feaster's backup plan wen he lost his appeal was to pay O'Reilly $3.5m not to play in the NHL this year.

me2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2013, 07:08 PM
  #714
Paranoid Android
ERMAHGERD
 
Paranoid Android's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: CO
Posts: 11,708
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
I am saying that everyone involved knew exactly what the rules are (excluding Feaster pretending he did not after being caught with his pants down). I'm saying they weren't aware the rule was in play.

So you think the agent knew he has played in KHL after the deadline but just didn't care to mention it to any team while shopping for offer sheets?

Alternatively, all teams were informed about this but no one could be bothered to check if the rules still were the same as they had been during the last CBA and the player would have to be exposed to waivers, just like Nabokov was?

Here is what O'Reilly's agent said when asked about if he knew about O'Reilly would have to go through waivers if Calgary signed him.

“Certainly not, or I never would have put Jay or Calgary or any other team in that situation”
I'm saying they were fully aware of article 13.23, as well as that O'Reilly played overseas. They all simply disagreed with the interpretation of the rule.

Paranoid Android is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2013, 07:10 PM
  #715
Paranoid Android
ERMAHGERD
 
Paranoid Android's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: CO
Posts: 11,708
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by me2 View Post
As opposed to the people that actually drafted it (NHL management and a mountain of lawyers), 25 gms and that didn't tender offer sheets because they did due diligence?

Vs some gms that didn't do due diligence and Feaster who now claims he was told O'Reilly would have to go through waivers and did the offersheet anyway.

I have to hope Feaster's backup plan wen he lost his appeal was to pay O'Reilly $3.5m not to play in the NHL this year.
I'd say the vast majority of GMs didn't tender an offer sheet because they simply don't think he's worth $6.5M. Not to mention that many GMs have come out and said they don't do offer sheets regardless.

Also, show me a quote of these mountains of lawyers who claim ROR has to pass thru waivers AND that Feaster would 100% lose his picks if he were wrong.

Paranoid Android is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2013, 07:11 PM
  #716
Freudian
Deja vu again?
 
Freudian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Sweden
Posts: 31,405
vCash: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
I'm saying they were fully aware of article 13.23, as well as that O'Reilly played overseas. They all simply disagreed with the interpretation of the rule.
I guess they either don't like draft picks or hockey players then.

Freudian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2013, 07:12 PM
  #717
Shinsuke Nakamura
King of Strong Style
 
Shinsuke Nakamura's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,768
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesfan94 View Post
So ROR's agent thought the wouldn't have to go one waivers? Another person on Feaster's side.
Everyone was at fault by not checking the new CBA for any changes regarding offer sheets and players playing in other pro leagues.

Shinsuke Nakamura is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2013, 07:13 PM
  #718
Paranoid Android
ERMAHGERD
 
Paranoid Android's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: CO
Posts: 11,708
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
I guess they either don't like draft picks or hockey players then.
Or maybe they know something that Joe Blow and Chris Johnston don't

Paranoid Android is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2013, 07:14 PM
  #719
TheHudlinator
Registered User
 
TheHudlinator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Victoria,BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,928
vCash: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
I guess they either don't like draft picks or hockey players then.
The rule doesn't even mention offer sheets clearly this isn't black and white like you make it seem. If the NHL meant for offer sheets to be treated this way then why not put it in the rules?

TheHudlinator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2013, 07:17 PM
  #720
me2
Seahawks 43
 
me2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Broncos 8
Country: Wallis & Futuna
Posts: 19,347
vCash: 1000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
I'd say the vast majority of GMs didn't tender an offer sheet because they simply don't think he's worth $6.5M. Not to mention that many GMs have come out and said they don't do offer sheets regardless.

Also, show me a quote of these mountains of lawyers who claim ROR has to pass thru waivers AND that Feaster would 100% lose his picks if he were wrong.
you don't think the NHL have mountains of lawyers working in the cba? you don't think the people drafting the cba know the intent better than Feaster? You don't think an arbitration hearing would take into account the NHL told every one, including Feaster, O'Reilly would go through waivers?

Feaster is a super genius. Keep living the dream.

me2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2013, 07:19 PM
  #721
Freudian
Deja vu again?
 
Freudian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Sweden
Posts: 31,405
vCash: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
Or maybe they know something that Joe Blow and Chris Johnston don't
I would suggest lawyers and GMs don't gamble that their interpretation of the rules would trump NHLs, when first round picks or O'Reilly's are involved.

NHL teams aren't infallible. Nashville and Chicago has missed qualifying players. Flyers didn't know how the cap rules worked with the Pronger contract. Feaster didn't bother to check Ryan O'Reilly's status.

He screwed up and was saved by Avs liking O'Reilly as much as Flames did.

Freudian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2013, 07:21 PM
  #722
TheHudlinator
Registered User
 
TheHudlinator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Victoria,BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,928
vCash: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
I would suggest lawyers and GMs don't gamble that their interpretation of the rules would trump NHLs, when first round picks or O'Reilly's are involved.

NHL teams aren't infallible. Nashville and Chicago has missed qualifying players. Flyers didn't know how the cap rules worked with the Pronger contract. Feaster didn't bother to check Ryan O'Reilly's status.

He screwed up and was saved by Avs liking O'Reilly as much as Flames did.
So it is possible for GMs to screw up but not for the nhl? They could have very easily meant for ROR to have to go through waivers but they never address that in the rules it seems like a massive over sight to say the least.

TheHudlinator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2013, 07:25 PM
  #723
Freudian
Deja vu again?
 
Freudian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Sweden
Posts: 31,405
vCash: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
So it is possible for GMs to screw up but not for the nhl? They could have very easily meant for ROR to have to go through waivers but they never address that in the rules it seems like a massive over sight to say the least.
NHL aren't without blame here. They should have flagged O'Reilly as a player that had played in a foreign league after the NHL season started but didn't. That combined with O'Reilly's agent messing up most likely lead to some teams not looking into O'Reilly's status.

Freudian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2013, 07:34 PM
  #724
Paranoid Android
ERMAHGERD
 
Paranoid Android's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: CO
Posts: 11,708
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by me2 View Post
you don't think the NHL have mountains of lawyers working in the cba? you don't think the people drafting the cba know the intent better than Feaster? You don't think an arbitration hearing would take into account the NHL told every one, including Feaster, O'Reilly would go through waivers?

Feaster is a super genius. Keep living the dream.
What? When did I say the NHL doesn't employ lawyers?
Show me a quote from anyone on the NHL side claiming ROR would have to pass waivers and that Calgary would 100% lose their picks. You will also have to provide proof that the NHLPA sides with the NHL as well. It is a collective agreement after all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
I would suggest lawyers and GMs don't gamble that their interpretation of the rules would trump NHLs, when first round picks or O'Reilly's are involved.

NHL teams aren't infallible. Nashville and Chicago has missed qualifying players. Flyers didn't know how the cap rules worked with the Pronger contract. Feaster didn't bother to check Ryan O'Reilly's status.

He screwed up and was saved by Avs liking O'Reilly as much as Flames did.
Funny you brought up the Chicago/Nashville RFA offer sheet ordeal. Bill Daly came out and directly said that he didn't believe they did anything wrong. Daly ended up being the one who was wrong. And now this whole waiver speculation is based off of something Daly supposedly told TSN.

I'm not saying GMs are infallible. Not at all. I will say that it is very unlikely that at least 6 GMs and staff, as well as an agent and an NHLPA rep all made the same supposed "mistake." I think they would all agree it's a muddy issue.

I won't disagree with you on whether the risk is worth it or not. I agree it's risky and should only be attempted by a desperate GM. None of us know how risky it is however.

Paranoid Android is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2013, 07:39 PM
  #725
Freudian
Deja vu again?
 
Freudian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Sweden
Posts: 31,405
vCash: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
Worth it or not. I agree it's risky and should only be attempted by a desperate GM. None of us know how risky it is however.
Considering the risk can be eliminated by a single phone call, no GM would attempt it unless they are utterly incompetent.

Freudian is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:02 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.