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03-11-2013, 10:52 AM
  #1
gordonshumway
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Question about Lupul trade

According to LeBrun at the time, Leafs got a conditional pick along with Lupul and Gardiner for Beauchemin:

"As for the conditional draft pick: If Lupul is on the Maple Leafs' roster for 40 or more games in 2012-13, Toronto gets a fourth-round pick in 2013. If he's not on Leafs roster for 40 or more games, Toronto gets a sixth-rounder from Anaheim. "

Anyone knows if this is still valid despite the season being shortened? not to mention did he need to be on *active* roster? just wondering if Leafs are getting a 4th or a 6th here

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03-11-2013, 10:55 AM
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Deebo
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I thought I heard the condition was worded as him being on the reserve list, which includes IR, so I think we get the 4th rounder.

I could be wrong though.

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03-11-2013, 10:57 AM
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gordonshumway
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Originally Posted by Deebo View Post
I thought I heard the condition was worded as him being on the reserve list, which includes IR, so I think we get the 4th rounder.

I could be wrong though.
Yeah that's what I'm wondering - if the condition means injury then it's a gimme, but there's also the fact the season's shortened - wonder if that has nullified the condition or something - no idea, hence the question.

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03-11-2013, 11:01 AM
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LeafShark
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Yeah that's what I'm wondering - if the condition means injury then it's a gimme, but there's also the fact the season's shortened - wonder if that has nullified the condition or something - no idea, hence the question.
A condition is a condition, and it can't change. Even so, Lupul is still going to end up playing less than half of the season. Sounds like a 4th rounder to me!

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03-11-2013, 11:15 AM
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blueNwhite89
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Heard Beauch is playing very well for the Ducks this year

Regardless, what a fleecing. Damn.

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03-11-2013, 11:29 AM
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Cor
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Gardiner for Beauch is a steal.

Add in a 4th and it's awesome.

Then add in a guy who was PPG last season and it's a bonafide "held at gunpoint" trade

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03-11-2013, 11:39 AM
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MoeMoney
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Anaheim really did Burke a favour with that trade, I don't think they knew Lupul had anything left in him, but the scouts and GM absolutely had to know what they had in Gardiner and Burke sure did as well. Burke as the Leafs GM would of really come in handy this year when Perry goes on the market, we would of had the inside scoop no question. Nonis, although Burkes freind, never worked in Anaheim and doens't have that rapport with Murray, and Burke is a scout so don't think he would be involved with the dealings anyway. Missed out IMO, it's gonna suck to see Perry land in Boston/Philly/NYR, Detroit I don't mind, they're a classy org that deserves it.

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03-11-2013, 11:43 AM
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416Leafer
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Anaheim really did Burke a favour with that trade, I don't think they knew Lupul had anything left in him, but the scouts and GM absolutely had to know what they had in Gardiner and Burke sure did as well. Burke as the Leafs GM would of really come in handy this year when Perry goes on the market, we would of had the inside scoop no question.
They considered Schultz and Gardiner to be fairly similar in terms of style of play, except they thought Schultz had the higher ceiling, making Gardiner organizationally expendable.

It's one of the reasons they were so bitter about Schultz leaving for nothing, since he's the main reason they were willing to move Gardiner.

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03-11-2013, 11:44 AM
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Interactif
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When Lupul went down, I thought 6th rd pick right away.

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03-11-2013, 11:47 AM
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Deebo
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Originally Posted by MoeMoney View Post
Anaheim really did Burke a favour with that trade, I don't think they knew Lupul had anything left in him, but the scouts and GM absolutely had to know what they had in Gardiner and Burke sure did as well. Burke as the Leafs GM would of really come in handy this year when Perry goes on the market, we would of had the inside scoop no question. Nonis, although Burkes freind, never worked in Anaheim and doens't have that rapport with Murray, and Burke is a scout so don't think he would be involved with the dealings anyway. Missed out IMO, it's gonna suck to see Perry land in Boston/Philly/NYR, Detroit I don't mind, they're a classy org that deserves it.
Anaheim had quite a few highly regarded defense prospects at the time and were looking for a veteran d-man. They were familiar with Beauchemin and he's done a good job for them.

We obviously did well with the trade, but they got what they wanted out of it as well. - Dumping the Lupul deal and picking up a vet on D. It really worked out for both teams, losing Schultz makes it look worse for the ducks, but that happened quite a bit later.

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03-11-2013, 11:50 AM
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Yea sorry didn't read the clause right... sounds like a 6th rounder... still a massive steal of a trade.

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03-11-2013, 12:04 PM
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The clause is so odd. Usually when you trade for a player with a history of injury, you make the clause so that the conditional pick would be higher for lesser games played (ex. Lombardi). In this case, it seems like a clause where Anaheim was saying that Lupul gets injured too much and Toronto is stubbornly denying so Anaheim says 'okay, if you're right and we're wrong, we'll give you an even better pick'

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03-11-2013, 12:11 PM
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donkeyy0
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The way I understood it was that toronto feels as though they're taking on significant risk with lupus, and as such wanted more compensation if they are forced to hold on to him. Which is why I thought the clause was solely as long as he's on the toronto maple leafs. So like no trades/minors for him.

Of course I haven't actually read the fine print. But logically that makes the most sense to me.

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03-11-2013, 12:29 PM
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Thee Implication
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Unreal deal. Gotta love Burkie on that one. Rumour has it that Nonis is going to be a buyer and a seller at the deadline.

What a guy. I am a fan of getting rid of the little Burke rules like not wanting to trade on the deadline and the Christmas freeze. If there is a way to improve the team you gotta sign and stamp it as soon as you can.

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03-11-2013, 12:38 PM
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rojac
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Unreal deal. Gotta love Burkie on that one. Rumour has it that Nonis is going to be a buyer and a seller at the deadline.

What a guy. I am a fan of getting rid of the little Burke rules like not wanting to trade on the deadline and the Christmas freeze. If there is a way to improve the team you gotta sign and stamp it as soon as you can.
Burke didn't like dealing right on deadline day and preferred to make his moves ahead of that, but he certainly made plenty of deals in the period approaching the actual deadline and did make a few deals on deadline day. As for his extended Christmas no-trade period, I don't see an issue with that at all -- it's not like those 9 or so days are heavy trading periods.

And what is your source for the Nonis deadline rumor? I'm always suspicious of trade discussions from TSN and Sportsnet people this time of year as they are mainly interested in building their audiences for the deadline day coverage.

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03-11-2013, 12:47 PM
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calcal798
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Gardiner for Beauch is a steal.

Add in a 4th and it's awesome.

Then add in a guy who was PPG last season and it's a bonafide "held at gunpoint" trade
It'd be ironic if we somehow did deal for Perry while getting him resigned and Gardiner was the main piece going back.

The deal could result in Beauch + 1st + Other Pieces for Lupul + Perry.

Talk about a good trade for Toronto.

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03-11-2013, 01:10 PM
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HockeyGuruPitka
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The conditions on the pick (As per lebrun)

"If Lupul is not on the Toronto’s “reserve list” for 40 or more regular season games in the 2012-13 season then Anaheim trades its 6th round pick in 2013 instead of 4th round pick in 2013"

So we will not get the 4th unless Lupul does not return this year.

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03-11-2013, 01:17 PM
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Jerkini
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Originally Posted by HockeyGuruPitka View Post
The conditions on the pick (As per lebrun)

"If Lupul is not on the Toronto’s “reserve list” for 40 or more regular season games in the 2012-13 season then Anaheim trades its 6th round pick in 2013 instead of 4th round pick in 2013"

So we will not get the 4th unless Lupul does not return this year.
I'll assume being on the injured reserve counts as the "reserve list"?

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03-11-2013, 01:18 PM
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HockeyGuruPitka
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I'll assume being on the injured reserve counts as the "reserve list"?
you are correct.

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03-11-2013, 01:21 PM
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Thee Implication
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Originally Posted by rojac View Post
Burke didn't like dealing right on deadline day and preferred to make his moves ahead of that, but he certainly made plenty of deals in the period approaching the actual deadline and did make a few deals on deadline day. As for his extended Christmas no-trade period, I don't see an issue with that at all -- it's not like those 9 or so days are heavy trading periods.

And what is your source for the Nonis deadline rumor? I'm always suspicious of trade discussions from TSN and Sportsnet people this time of year as they are mainly interested in building their audiences for the deadline day coverage.
Fair enough, either way not a big deal

As for the Christmas period. There may not be a lot of activity, but as a business the guy basically told the media he keeps his phone off. I want to have confidence that my GM is constantly grinding and fighting for anything to improve the team and if there isn't any activity then the players get their break anyways. It doesn't benefit the team.

As for the TSN view thing, yeah you're probably right

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03-11-2013, 01:49 PM
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Tak7
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Fair enough, either way not a big deal

As for the Christmas period. There may not be a lot of activity, but as a business the guy basically told the media he keeps his phone off. I want to have confidence that my GM is constantly grinding and fighting for anything to improve the team and if there isn't any activity then the players get their break anyways. It doesn't benefit the team.

As for the TSN view thing, yeah you're probably right
He still talked and listened (wasn't Turris available around Xmas?), just didn't pull the trigger on deals around the Xmas break because of his loyalty to the players.

I can see how some fans could interpret that as him not doing his job/letting the league just pass him by, but I don't think it was anything like that. Rather, I think it's something that the players really appreciated.

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03-11-2013, 01:53 PM
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Deebo
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Originally Posted by HockeyGuruPitka View Post
The conditions on the pick (As per lebrun)

"If Lupul is not on the Toronto’s “reserve list” for 40 or more regular season games in the 2012-13 season then Anaheim trades its 6th round pick in 2013 instead of 4th round pick in 2013"

So we will not get the 4th unless Lupul does not return this year.
He will be on the reserve list for 40 or more regular season games, so we will get the 4th, no matter what happens.

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03-11-2013, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Deebo View Post
He will be on the reserve list for 40 or more regular season games, so we will get the 4th, no matter what happens.
Yeah, I think the idea is that if the Leafs were still having to eat Lupul's salary (that is, they hadn't dumped it elsewhere), then they should get further compensation.

And getting Anaheim's 4th will make up for the fact that the Leafs will have to give up their own 4th to Nashville as part of the Lebda and Slaney for Franson and Lombardi deal.

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03-11-2013, 02:20 PM
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He will be on the reserve list for 40 or more regular season games, so we will get the 4th, no matter what happens.
Delete.Maybe i dont understand what a reserve list is...

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03-11-2013, 02:22 PM
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Tak7
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Please explain? He needs to be on the reserve list for 40 or more games in the 2012-2013 season in order for us to get the 4th. Thus far he has missed 23 games. He is expected back within the next week or two. No chance he is on the reserve list for 40 games.
I'd like an explanation too.

That condition was for this season, and he's going to be back within a week to 10 days. The most he will miss is 26-30 games.

Does that not mean he doesn't meet the criteria for the condition?

Unless I'm misinterpreting something - is that "40 games on the reserve list" scaled back because of the lockout? I hardly think a conditional pick built into a trade would have some sort of false safe in case of a shortened season

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