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Its time we let Seguin center

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Old
03-13-2013, 08:52 AM
  #51
11MilesPerJohan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smithformeragent View Post
The first line is definitely complacent IMO. If it keeps up, I'd consider trading Horton before the contract expires as a wake up call to Krejci and Lucic. FWIW, I don't think Krejci is the problem. He may look like he's not invested, but that's just how he plays. Lucic, it's like he has ADD and only plays when someone pisses him off.

I feel like you open up more holes by breaking up the Bergeron line.
I agree. While Krejci has been far from stellar of late, he is less of an issue than Lucic and Horton have been.

I know many people say that line goes as Krejci goes, but Lucic and Horton are really the engines that drive the cycle game that the line thrives on. When they start playing a finesse game, and getting away from what got them to where they were, that is getting in on the forecheck, and then grinding down the opposition on the cycle, then they become completely ineffective. Krejci relies on those two playing a certain way to create some space and movement in the offensive zone, and right now it's not happening.

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Old
03-13-2013, 09:31 AM
  #52
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Chris Kelly is 4th in the league in faceoffs (60%), which is tough to argue but he is -6 this year. It's no secret he and Peverley haven't been pulling their weight, so if Kelly is out a little bit I wouldn't mind testing Seguin at center for a game or two.

Slightly longer term, if they can't/don't land Soderberg, I'd like to see them go after a Brenden Morrow or a Ryan Malone. But Soderberg could be the perfect spark plug for that third line.

The sky isn't falling. But this is a great roster that could easily get better with the right adjustment. Constantly improving.

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Old
03-13-2013, 10:08 AM
  #53
Mike B.
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Originally Posted by Numbah4 View Post
Seguin is already playing on our top line. It ain't even close. How does it improve the lineup moving him off of it?
Because the team isn't going anywhere with one very good line and three medicore to bad ones. And because they can get more value out of Seguin as a center than as a wing.

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Old
03-13-2013, 10:12 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Mike B. View Post
Because the team isn't going anywhere with one very good line and three medicore to bad ones. And because they can get more value out of Seguin as a center than as a wing.
There's nothing wrong with the 4th line. Lucic and Horton have to get their **** together. Moving players around isn't going to motivate them. The 3rd line was struggling. But, we still have Soderberg and a deadline move to improve them. I'd say just read Looch and Horton the riot act. You can also mention to Horton's agent that he's come up in trade talks. That will get back to both of them in about 10 seconds. If they want to play on the same team, they have to
play better.

Not too many teams tinker with their top line. You ride em. Not break em up.

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Old
03-13-2013, 10:18 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Numbah4 View Post
There's nothing wrong with the 4th line. Lucic and Horton have to get their **** together. Moving players around isn't going to motivate them. The 3rd line was struggling. But, we still have Soderberg and a deadline move to improve them. I'd say just read Looch and Horton the riot act. You can also mention to Horton's agent that he's come up in trade talks. That will get back to both of them in about 10 seconds. If they want to play on the same team, they have to
play better.

Not too many teams tinker with their top line. You ride em. Not break em up.
Trade threats work particularly well with guys who have NTCs.

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Old
03-13-2013, 10:28 AM
  #56
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I don't think you should mess with Bergy's line. It's the one thing that has been truly excellent for the B's this season (aside from the PK).

The problem is in our first line, and specifically Horton. His game is utterly lacking in urgency, initiative, or any element of surprise. This might not be a huge problem if he had speedier linemates, but he doesn't, so the neutral zone appears to turns into a slush field when LKH are in transition.

It's no fun pointing the finger at Horton, because we know what he's capable of (hello 2011 playoffs) and he's a likable guy, but it's hard for me to come to any other conclusions. While Krejci and Lucic have had a mostly solid first half of the season, Horton has been MIA more often than not.

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Old
03-13-2013, 12:03 PM
  #57
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Seguin is getting better but his defensive game is nowhere near what is required to be a Center on this team. He's still weak on the puck and along the boards. He also won't take the body.

He's just fine on the wing.

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Old
03-13-2013, 12:08 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Alicat View Post
Seguin is getting better but his defensive game is nowhere near what is required to be a Center on this team. He's still weak on the puck and along the boards. He also won't take the body.

He's just fine on the wing.
I want to keep Seguin on the wing for the rest of this year. But, I think moving him to C next year is best for him. Just don't think Clode had enough confidence in doing it with a lockout and short-season.

Aren't wingers expected to play more along the boards and more physical than centers? Sounds a little bit to me that we'd be asking him to do something he's not really good at, but are sacrificing something he might be really good at. He's best when he has room to operate. Wouldn't he have more ice/options playing C than RW?

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Old
03-13-2013, 12:15 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alicat View Post
Seguin is getting better but his defensive game is nowhere near what is required to be a Center on this team. He's still weak on the puck and along the boards. He also won't take the body.

He's just fine on the wing.
Seguin has 17 hits. Bergeron has 17. Krejci 16. Peverley 10.

Probably one of the most notable improvements in his game this season IMO. I've been watching for it and he seems to make solid body contact at least once a night. I agree he's still not strong enough on the puck though. Krejci isn't exactly heavy on the puck either but he makes up for it with smarts. Seguin has a quick stick and active feet. I think he can handle it.

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Old
03-14-2013, 09:58 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Numbah4 View Post
Playing Seguin at RW exposes the lesser part of his game. Boardwork. While keeping him away from open ice. Which is the best part of his game. I'd put Horton on his RW and Kelly on his LW. That should be good enough defensively to keep Claude happy. Slide Peverly onto Bergeron/Marchand's line. Against a really good offensive line in the playoffs like Crosby. I'd be tempted to put Paille there. Need to acquire a RW to play with Krejci/Lucic. Just need someone with a little skill and they will get a ton of scoring chances. Looch does the dirty work and Krejci gets you the puck where you can do something with it. Hell, Miro Satan looked good with those two in 2010. I'm sure Iginla would be happier than Gallagher at a Farmer's Market playing with those two.
I'm beginning to question whether open ice is indeed the best part of his game. He has the wheels, yes, to make use of open ice, but how often does he put it to good use?

Seguin's deficit in boardwork has had two dimensions: (a) insufficient will and (b) insufficient strength. I think most of us can agree that he has considerably improved in the former kind, and shows signs of gradually improving in the latter. Assuming he continues on his current learning curve, it's not unreasonable to expect him to be very good along the boards by the middle of next season, not quite up to #37 levels, to be sure, but on par with #63.

By contrast, I'm still not seeing very much improvement in terms of his decision-making in open ice, particularly when he has the puck. We've discussed this aplenty here, so I won't belabor it, but it's the skating-into-dead-ends syndrome. I believe his boardwork will improve if he maintains his current level of effort (will) and continues to improve his strength, but tbh I don't know if his open-ice playmaking capacity will improve or if it has reached some sort of hockey-IQ-related ceiling already. I doubt the latter, but I'm just not sure.

Going back to the central argument, about whether CJ should let Seguin center, I would say therefore say: ok, let him center, but do so on a limited basis for the time being, because he has some deficiencies that could hurt the team in the short run (including the decision-making I discuss above*), but yes, forcing him to center would be the quickest way to correct those deficiencies and discover his true ceiling.

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Old
03-15-2013, 09:05 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Bone for your jar View Post
By contrast, I'm still not seeing very much improvement in terms of his decision-making in open ice, particularly when he has the puck. We've discussed this aplenty here, so I won't belabor it, but it's the skating-into-dead-ends syndrome. I believe his boardwork will improve if he maintains his current level of effort (will) and continues to improve his strength, but tbh I don't know if his open-ice playmaking capacity will improve or if it has reached some sort of hockey-IQ-related ceiling already. I doubt the latter, but I'm just not sure.
Seguin needs to learn to back the defense off and gain time and space when he enters the zone against multiple defenders. I'm somewhat surprised, given the improvements he's made in most other phases of the game, that he still has a tendency to try and go 1 on 2 or even 1 on 3 as often as he does.

However, I don't think this has anything to do with whether he plays wing or center. As a center, if anything he will be less likely to be the guy carrying the puck in against multiple defenders. When he's at RW, any time the Bruins break out of their zone up the LW, they are likely going to head man the puck to Seguin, who will be out in front of the rush. As a center, he'll more often be orchestrating the rush, not necessarily leading it.

He should be at center because of his play with the puck in the defensive and neutral zones. In those situations, his passes are crisp and tape-to-tape. More importantly, he knows who to pass it to in order not to just get the puck out, but to start an attack. He has a good sense of when to pass vs. when to hold or skate with the puck, and at "making himself available" in the right places. His offensive zone problems happen in a very specific situation - when he gains the zone alone against multiple defenders. When he is in situations where teammates are available, he knows how to use them. Also, he's better than most on the team at handling a bad pass.

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Old
03-15-2013, 10:12 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Mike B. View Post
Seguin needs to learn to back the defense off and gain time and space when he enters the zone against multiple defenders. I'm somewhat surprised, given the improvements he's made in most other phases of the game, that he still has a tendency to try and go 1 on 2 or even 1 on 3 as often as he does.

However, I don't think this has anything to do with whether he plays wing or center. As a center, if anything he will be less likely to be the guy carrying the puck in against multiple defenders. When he's at RW, any time the Bruins break out of their zone up the LW, they are likely going to head man the puck to Seguin, who will be out in front of the rush. As a center, he'll more often be orchestrating the rush, not necessarily leading it.

He should be at center because of his play with the puck in the defensive and neutral zones. In those situations, his passes are crisp and tape-to-tape. More importantly, he knows who to pass it to in order not to just get the puck out, but to start an attack. He has a good sense of when to pass vs. when to hold or skate with the puck, and at "making himself available" in the right places. His offensive zone problems happen in a very specific situation - when he gains the zone alone against multiple defenders. When he is in situations where teammates are available, he knows how to use them. Also, he's better than most on the team at handling a bad pass.
I like your observations and careful distinctions (esp. in the third paragraph), and I do agree with your assertion (in the second paragraph) that Seguin would be less likely to be the first man into the o-zone if he played center.

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Old
03-15-2013, 11:30 PM
  #63
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The Bruins, including prospects, are loaded with centers by design. Some of them can also play on the wing.

Krejci
Bergeron
Kelly
Campbell
Seguin
Peverly
Spooner
Soderberg (soon)
Khokhlachev
Camper

This group gives the Bruins a lot of flexibility going forward.

Right now Seguin is terrific on Bergeron's RW and surely would be effective at C. But at this point, with Bergeron and Krejci as the top centers, I expect they will keep Seguin at RW.

It will come down to the Bruins plans for the next 2-3 years. Who will they keep? Who will move on?

I'm excited to see how it plays out.

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Old
03-17-2013, 01:55 PM
  #64
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Well, I guess this will happen next game.

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03-17-2013, 02:03 PM
  #65
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It's time.

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Old
03-17-2013, 02:17 PM
  #66
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Wow our lines are gonna suck without Krejci.

Even then, watch Tardif or someone else besides Spooner get the call up....

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03-17-2013, 02:18 PM
  #67
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Lucic-Seguin-Horton

Marchand-Bergeron-Caron

Pandolfo-Peverly-Paille

Thornton-Campbell-MacD


That looks terrible.
WTF happened to our depth?

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Old
03-17-2013, 02:21 PM
  #68
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Lucic-Seguin-Horton
Marchand-Bergeron-Peverley
Paille-Spooner-Caron
Thornton-Campbell-Pandolfo

3rd and 4th lines.

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Old
03-17-2013, 02:24 PM
  #69
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Someone get Mark Recchi on the line. ASAP

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Old
03-17-2013, 02:25 PM
  #70
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He's not gonna break up the Bergeron line...

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Old
03-17-2013, 02:31 PM
  #71
Mainehockey33
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Please put Macdermid in instead of Pandawful

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Old
03-17-2013, 02:31 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoBs View Post
Lucic-Seguin-Horton

Marchand-Bergeron-Caron

Pandolfo-Peverly-Paille

Thornton-Campbell-MacD


That looks terrible.
WTF happened to our depth?
eh, they 2011 cup team with Krejci and Kelly out would have looked:

Lucic-Pevs-Horton
Marchand-Bergeron-Recchi
Paille-Seguin-Ryder
Caron-Campbell-Thornton

Not much better, if at all.

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Old
03-17-2013, 02:32 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by RedeyeRocketeer View Post
He's not gonna break up the Bergeron line...
He might if he has to. I can see Seguin centering Krejci's line. Unless there's another center comming in, or Krejci isn't hurt that badly?

I think it all depends on how badly Krejci is hurt.

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Old
03-17-2013, 02:34 PM
  #74
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Please put Macdermid in instead of Pandawful
Not happy with Pandolfo.

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Old
03-17-2013, 02:36 PM
  #75
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He's not gonna break up the Bergeron line...
Well then who would center the Lucic line? Peverley? No thanks.

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