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The Defenseman Acquisition Thread | Part I: Creating a Defense that is "no Soff"

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Old
03-01-2013, 06:30 PM
  #176
IcedCapp
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Originally Posted by plaidchuck View Post
I didn't say I wanted to trade him, I'd like them both to stay obviously. I was just saying in the case if you had to choose one over the other.
I didn't say you did. I'm just saying if you're looking for an option to shake the team up and have the best chance at filling holes, that's one of your only routes. I'm not advocating it, but if Shero went that route, he could improve the team, if he does it just right.

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03-01-2013, 06:36 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
I didn't say you did. I'm just saying if you're looking for an option to shake the team up and have the best chance at filling holes, that's one of your only routes. I'm not advocating it, but if Shero went that route, he could improve the team, if he does it just right.
I do agree that something will have to give eventually. The way it is now most of the money will always be tied up in crosby, malkin, fleury, and letang, and unless a prospect comes out and has a calder nominee year, the forward depth will always be an issue.

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03-01-2013, 06:55 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by plaidchuck View Post
I do agree that something will have to give eventually. The way it is now most of the money will always be tied up in crosby, malkin, fleury, and letang, and unless a prospect comes out and has a calder nominee year, the forward depth will always be an issue.
You're forgetting Neal and Martin at $5 million also.

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Old
03-01-2013, 07:43 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Jacques G View Post
You're forgetting Neal and Martin at $5 million also.
This is the last year we'll have Martin at $5 million, imo. Before 2013 began, he was a buyout candidate. He has righted the ship big time, which in my view makes him an ideal trade candidate in the off-season. It still won't be easy because of the cap, but there are enough teams that constantly look to get to the cap floor, so I am sure we will find a taker.

If ever there was a sell high candidate, it's Paul Martin. Hopefully, he doesn't revert back to last year's model from hereon out.

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03-01-2013, 10:19 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
This is the last year we'll have Martin at $5 million, imo. Before 2013 began, he was a buyout candidate. He has righted the ship big time, which in my view makes him an ideal trade candidate in the off-season. It still won't be easy because of the cap, but there are enough teams that constantly look to get to the cap floor, so I am sure we will find a taker.

If ever there was a sell high candidate, it's Paul Martin. Hopefully, he doesn't revert back to last year's model from hereon out.
Agreed.....I think this year is more of Martins game but the fact is we have a pool of young d-men that need to step up in order to keep our core together. Paying Martin 5 mil when you have solid depth at D prevents the core from sticking together. The success of these young d-men will allow us to keep the crosby, malkin, letang neals together.

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Old
03-01-2013, 11:21 PM
  #181
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http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...ntreal-677491/

http://triblive.com/sports/penguins/...#axzz2MM9bKb9J

Nothing really new, but pertinent just the same.

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Old
03-01-2013, 11:39 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
I read that and wonder why he was fired? I know it was the right move back in 2009, Bylsma was the right fit.

But with what those players are saying, it seems like they need what Therrien brought then....now.

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Old
03-02-2013, 05:06 AM
  #183
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3 of those goals were scored on crosby's watch. IF forwards are not taking guys in own zone. These kinda plays will be very common.

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03-02-2013, 05:58 AM
  #184
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We have the defense to play a tight game, I don't want to beat a dead horse but...system...it dun broke.

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Old
03-02-2013, 06:12 AM
  #185
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
The defense is fine. The system is not.

- ColePens
This.

Remember when Shero spent a lot of money and picked up two solid ufa dmen and the defense still sucked last playoffs.

How does Bylsma still have a job after Shero has only spent money on ufa defensemen, drafted nothing but defensemen and yet the defense continues to suck bad.

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Old
03-02-2013, 06:37 AM
  #186
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Originally Posted by kepper View Post
This.

Remember when Shero spent a lot of money and picked up two solid ufa dmen and the defense still sucked last playoffs.

How does Bylsma still have a job after Shero has only spent money on ufa defensemen, drafted nothing but defensemen and yet the defense continues to suck bad.
We had one of the best PK in the league, and one of the fewest GA in the regular season..something had been done right there, can't deny that. The question is, what went wrong since Crosby came back?

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Old
03-02-2013, 07:12 AM
  #187
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the only D move I want to see is Niskanen in a deal for a wing. If we still need something, bring in a big number 6 kind of guy in case Engo doesn't get back on track but I'm thinking he could improve if that bottom pairing is more stable instead of rotating Bort and Despres

The players are good. They aren't great, but they are good. Improving the D would mean we really can't improve the wings which I think is way more important.

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03-02-2013, 07:36 AM
  #188
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trade engo, kennedy + nisky at deadline, orpik - martin, depres - letang, bort - dumoulin/eaton? then we can put bennett with crosby and the winger we get. kunitz back with geno and neal. then dupuis on 3rd line. then glass with jeffrey and vitale on 4th.

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Old
03-02-2013, 07:46 AM
  #189
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Originally Posted by x Lightning View Post
trade engo, kennedy + nisky at deadline, orpik - martin, depres - letang, bort - dumoulin/eaton? then we can put bennett with crosby and the winger we get. kunitz back with geno and neal. then dupuis on 3rd line. then glass with jeffrey and vitale on 4th.
we aren't bringing up another rookie at this point unless injury makes us. and we shouldn't either. It takes some time to adjust to the NHL.

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03-02-2013, 07:48 AM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
This something a lot of people have been saying for a while now. That it was combination of MT structure & Bylsma's aggressivenes that lead to the cup. We get worse & worse defensively the farther away we move from that regime.

Mark Madden actually had a good point, I know give it a chance, that these kind of things go in circles. Coaches get too player friendly & become one of the guys then A strict coach comes in to clean it up. Then the strict coach gets old & starts being ignored & sure enough the cycle starts over.

At this point can Bylsma stop being their buddy & start being their authority figure?

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03-02-2013, 07:49 AM
  #191
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Few points after reading through this thread:

1) Bort and Engo are playing over Despres not because they have outplayed him but a matter of logistics. Bort will have to pass through waivers if sent down; it would be stupid to do that, and right now we desperately need Engo's physicality. No brainer. Plus Despres will ultimately benefit more playing 25 minutes a night in Wilkes Barre leading a playoff run, as opposed to the 11 minutes Bylsma would give him in the big leagues.

2) I don't think Orpik is untradable, he should be moved given the right offer, but it would have to be a significant piece, as he is a huge part of this team. Letang has completely lost his composure lately. I don't think trading our assistant captain, lifetime Penguin and leader of the D is the best option here.

3) Furthermore, Niskanen is a much more valuable tradepiece IMO. He might not have more pure trade value, but a lot of teams need a young PMD more than a stay at home guy like Orpik. Shero should target teams like Carolina, Minnesota who need a guy like Nisky and maybe we will see a Jussi Jokinen/Devin Setoguchi suit up in the black and vegas gold. Despres in my opinion can completely replace Niskanen internally. It's possible that Bortuzzo eventually does the same for Orpik, but I'm not as confident. I also love me some Engo, but let's be honest, he will never be more than a #5 d-man.

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03-02-2013, 07:52 AM
  #192
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Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
This something a lot of people have been saying for a while now. That it was combination of MT structure & Bylsma's aggressivenes that lead to the cup. We get worse & worse defensively the farther away we move from that regime.

Mark Madden actually had a good point, I know give it a chance, that these kind of things go in circles. Coaches get too player friendly & become one of the guys then A strict coach comes in to clean it up. Then the strict coach gets old & starts being ignored & sure enough the cycle starts over.

At this point can Bylsma stop being their buddy & start being their authority figure?
yes yes yes. this has all happened before and this will all happen again.

the question is, who is a coach that will instill the discipline/work ethic like therrien did, ideally without the players totally disliking him?

also, interesting quote from orpik in one of those above articles, talking about how therrien demanded that they practice like they want to play (ie give 100% in practice). probably reading too much into this, but could bylsma not being working them hard enough in practice?

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03-02-2013, 07:54 AM
  #193
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Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
This something a lot of people have been saying for a while now. That it was combination of MT structure & Bylsma's aggressivenes that lead to the cup. We get worse & worse defensively the farther away we move from that regime.

Mark Madden actually had a good point, I know give it a chance, that these kind of things go in circles. Coaches get too player friendly & become one of the guys then A strict coach comes in to clean it up. Then the strict coach gets old & starts being ignored & sure enough the cycle starts over.

At this point can Bylsma stop being their buddy & start being their authority figure?
Madden, when he actually acts like a real person instead of the radio caricature of himself, is a really good hockey analyst. I agree with that. Especially when the assistants don't seem to have much mind of their own and we really don't have a strong authoritative presence on the roster like a Roberts or Iginla type.

on that last question, I don't know if he can. It is a ridiculously hard thing to do. I think he could go to another team and make that change, but to try to do that with the group you already coach I don't know if he could pull it off. He'd instantly go from one of the guys to the strict coach that is being tuned out most likely. Its not impossible, but its very difficult. He would need to get some really strong support from the key players.

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Old
03-02-2013, 07:55 AM
  #194
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Originally Posted by Til the End of Time View Post
yes yes yes. this has all happened before and this will all happen again.

the question is, who is a coach that will instill the discipline/work ethic like therrien did, ideally without the players totally disliking him?

also, interesting quote from orpik in one of those above articles, talking about how therrien demanded that they practice like they want to play (ie give 100% in practice). probably reading too much into this, but could bylsma not being working them hard enough in practice?
Guy Boucher. I'd love to snag him from TB.

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03-02-2013, 07:56 AM
  #195
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Originally Posted by Zbynek View Post
Few points after reading through this thread:

1) Bort and Engo are playing over Despres not because they have outplayed him but a matter of logistics. Bort will have to pass through waivers if sent down; it would be stupid to do that, and right now we desperately need Engo's physicality. No brainer. Plus Despres will ultimately benefit more playing 25 minutes a night in Wilkes Barre leading a playoff run, as opposed to the 11 minutes Bylsma would give him in the big leagues.
You need to think about that one for two more minutes .

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03-02-2013, 07:56 AM
  #196
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Originally Posted by Til the End of Time View Post
yes yes yes. this has all happened before and this will all happen again.

the question is, who is a coach that will instill the discipline/work ethic like therrien did, ideally without the players totally disliking him?

also, interesting quote from orpik in one of those above articles, talking about how therrien demanded that they practice like they want to play (ie give 100% in practice). probably reading too much into this, but could bylsma not being working them hard enough in practice?
I'm not even sure if that's a question. We literally have a mustache boy

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03-02-2013, 07:58 AM
  #197
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Originally Posted by Jacques G View Post
Guy Boucher. I'd love to snag him from TB.
Report: Ray Shero has traded Dan Bylsma and Matt Niskanen to the Tampa Bay Lightning. In return, the Penguins will receive Guy Boucher and Ryan Malone; with 1 million dollars of Malone's salary retained by the Lightning.

Do it

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03-02-2013, 08:05 AM
  #198
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
Report: Ray Shero has traded Dan Bylsma and Matt Niskanen to the Tampa Bay Lightning. In return, the Penguins will receive Guy Boucher and Ryan Malone; with 1 million dollars of Malone's salary retained by the Lightning.

Do it
I believe in Shero.

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03-02-2013, 08:09 AM
  #199
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let's hire Larry Robinson as HC.

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Old
03-02-2013, 08:10 AM
  #200
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The three most untouchable players on this team are Crosby, Malkin, & Letang. Trading him would be stupid & Bylsma will be fired before that happens. You can't throw away a franchise defensemen because his coach can't instill discipline.

How many D-Men does this system have to chew up before people start looking at the determinate factor? A lot of people still seem to be in denial.

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