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The Defenseman Acquisition Thread | Part I: Creating a Defense that is "no Soff"

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Old
03-02-2013, 08:24 AM
  #201
Ogrezilla
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Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
The three most untouchable players on this team are Crosby, Malkin, & Letang. Trading him would be stupid & Bylsma will be fired before that happens. You can't throw away a franchise defensemen because his coach can't instill discipline.

How many D-Men does this system have to chew up before people start looking at the determinate factor? A lot of people still seem to be in denial.
so I didn't read the whole thread. Did people really suggest trading Letang?

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03-02-2013, 08:30 AM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
so I didn't read the whole thread. Did people really suggest trading Letang?
Some did but it was mainly a question if there was a situation where you had to choose between trading Malkin or Letang.

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03-02-2013, 08:32 AM
  #203
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
so I didn't read the whole thread. Did people really suggest trading Letang?
Yep. Here & the main boards.

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03-02-2013, 08:33 AM
  #204
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Originally Posted by plaidchuck View Post
Some did but it was mainly a question if there was a situation where you had to choose between trading Malkin or Letang.
the answer is neither. you buy someone out or something.
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Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
Yep. Here & the main boards.
yuck. I'll just assume its the vocal minority and move on I guess.

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03-02-2013, 10:24 AM
  #205
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Kind of funny the defensive issues the team has had, considering the coach was a penalty killer and defensive forward all of his career.

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Old
03-02-2013, 10:28 AM
  #206
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Originally Posted by Zbynek View Post
Few points after reading through this thread:

1) Bort and Engo are playing over Despres not because they have outplayed him but a matter of logistics. Bort will have to pass through waivers if sent down; it would be stupid to do that, and right now we desperately need Engo's physicality. No brainer. Plus Despres will ultimately benefit more playing 25 minutes a night in Wilkes Barre leading a playoff run, as opposed to the 11 minutes Bylsma would give him in the big leagues.

2) I don't think Orpik is untradable, he should be moved given the right offer, but it would have to be a significant piece, as he is a huge part of this team. Letang has completely lost his composure lately. I don't think trading our assistant captain, lifetime Penguin and leader of the D is the best option here.

3) Furthermore, Niskanen is a much more valuable tradepiece IMO. He might not have more pure trade value, but a lot of teams need a young PMD more than a stay at home guy like Orpik. Shero should target teams like Carolina, Minnesota who need a guy like Nisky and maybe we will see a Jussi Jokinen/Devin Setoguchi suit up in the black and vegas gold. Despres in my opinion can completely replace Niskanen internally. It's possible that Bortuzzo eventually does the same for Orpik, but I'm not as confident. I also love me some Engo, but let's be honest, he will never be more than a #5 d-man.
2, that he is the A and supposed leader on D is one of the biggest reasons to trade Orpik if you really want to give this team as good wake up call, the guys play is slipping, and while he talks about accountability and we need to play better, I don't see it on the ice, he surely didn't improve to the level Martin did this year. If he goes and you bring in a solid vet who bring a different voice of leadership then things will change. A defensive Gary Roberts in essence. It would have a similar effect to the coaching change people want.

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Old
03-02-2013, 10:43 AM
  #207
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Originally Posted by plaidchuck View Post
Some did but it was mainly a question if there was a situation where you had to choose between trading Malkin or Letang.
It all started with Rossi talking to Stan on the radio making trading Letang his new theory. Madden played the interview on his 24/7 show, then asked Potash about it and they both dismissed it as "unimaginable" Armchair GMs are having a field day though.

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03-02-2013, 11:39 AM
  #208
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No way Shero trades Malkin but if he did we better be getting Shea Weber in return.

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Old
03-02-2013, 11:45 AM
  #209
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Originally Posted by HMPens View Post
It all started with Rossi talking to Stan on the radio making trading Letang his new theory. Madden played the interview on his 24/7 show, then asked Potash about it and they both dismissed it as "unimaginable" Armchair GMs are having a field day though.
Rossi has been throwing it out there to trade Letang for years now. I wonder if Letang banged Rossi's GF before settling down with this chick he has a kid with. Otherwise I don't really get why he's been so obsessed with getting him off the team.

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03-02-2013, 11:46 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
Rossi has been throwing it out there to trade Letang for years now. I wonder if Letang banged Rossi's GF before settling down with this chick he has a kid with. Otherwise I don't really get why he's been so obsessed with getting him off the team.
Rossi wants everybody traded.

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03-02-2013, 11:47 AM
  #211
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Originally Posted by jester91 View Post
No way Shero trades Malkin but if he did we better be getting Shea Weber in return.
Hypothetically, if we are trading Malkin over Letang, then I would want some forward depth along with a solid defenseman.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
Rossi has been throwing it out there to trade Letang for years now. I wonder if Letang banged Rossi's GF before settling down with this chick he has a kid with. Otherwise I don't really get why he's been so obsessed with getting him off the team.
Rossi doesn't have a GF.

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03-02-2013, 11:47 AM
  #212
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Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
The three most untouchable players on this team are Crosby, Malkin, & Letang. Trading him would be stupid & Bylsma will be fired before that happens. You can't throw away a franchise defensemen because his coach can't instill discipline.

How many D-Men does this system have to chew up before people start looking at the determinate factor? A lot of people still seem to be in denial.
To try to prove your point, you listed a bunch of defensemen seemingly at random, because a number of them have played as well or better under Bylsma than they have under anyone else.

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03-02-2013, 11:48 AM
  #213
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I think some older fans think that what happened with Jagr will come to pass with Malkin for whatever reason, although this is a different era and they are two very different players.

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03-02-2013, 11:56 AM
  #214
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
To try to prove your point, you listed a bunch of defensemen seemingly at random, because a number of them have played as well or better under Bylsma than they have under anyone else.
Yeah, I think that gets lost in this.

Niskanen is a guy that has thrived under DB for the most part after being horrible in Dallas.

Engelland has become a solid NHL'er under Bylsma when a lot of people thought he'd be a career minor leaguer.

Letang has played near Norris caliber D over the past few years not counting this slow start to this season.

Many blamed DB and the system for Paul Martin's struggles but it turned out Martin was mostly the one to blame. DB is still here and the system is still the same. Martin just finally started to get off his ass and earn his contract. Maybe that speaks to DB not holding guys accountable enough at times but still.

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03-02-2013, 12:44 PM
  #215
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I think the system can work. And it will bring out the best in PMD. But we don't have enough variation in the way we play teams. Not a plan B or plan C when things go wrong. That's what frustrates me most. Doesn't seem like we're built to win in the postseason.

I'm not blaming DB for the lack of discipline. That's on the players. If that's why he gets canned, then our core players should be ashamed of themselves.

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Old
03-02-2013, 01:06 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
let's hire Larry Robinson as HC.
He doesn't want the gig. He's been offered several HC jobs for many years running. He is an assistant coach, through and through. He didn't like being a head coach in LA. He felt he had to be somebody he's not (a bad ass).

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03-02-2013, 01:08 PM
  #217
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
To try to prove your point, you listed a bunch of defensemen seemingly at random, because a number of them have played as well or better under Bylsma than they have under anyone else.
Like who, Paul Martin and Brooks Orpik? Because those are the two we currently rely on heavily...Martin was better in Jersey, Orpik was better under Therrien.

I'll give you Letang, pre-2013.

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03-02-2013, 01:12 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
To try to prove your point, you listed a bunch of defensemen seemingly at random, because a number of them have played as well or better under Bylsma than they have under anyone else.
We are bad at defense despite having good defensive players. That's just the truth & has been for a couple years now. So explain to me how rotating out more D-men will do anything?

Like I said earlier LA did just fine last year & Chicago is doing just fine this year with just as many or fewer "Crease clearing defensemen"

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03-02-2013, 01:13 PM
  #219
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
Like who, Paul Martin and Brooks Orpik? Because those are the two we currently rely on heavily...Martin was better in Jersey, Orpik was better under Therrien.

I'll give you Letang, pre-2013.
You could make the argument that given his physical gifts, Letang should be even better. Good coaching should be able to work his with common sense mistakes.

Unless he's uncoachable.

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03-02-2013, 01:17 PM
  #220
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Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
We are bad at defense despite having good defensive players. That's just the truth & has been for a couple years now. So explain to me how rotating out more D-men will do anything?

Like I said earlier LA did just fine last year & Chicago is doing just fine this year with just as many or fewer "Crease clearing defensemen"
You're joking, right? Matt Greene, Willie Mitchell...they define 'crease-clearing defenseman'. Doughty is one annoying SOB to play against, too.

And the day we are as skilled as Chicago is the day everybody here will stop caring about defense altogether. Because it won't matter nearly as much.

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03-02-2013, 01:18 PM
  #221
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
You could make the argument that given his physical gifts, Letang should be even better. Good coaching should be able to work his with common sense mistakes.

Unless he's uncoachable.
I agree with you.

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03-02-2013, 01:19 PM
  #222
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
I think the system can work. And it will bring out the best in PMD. But we don't have enough variation in the way we play teams. Not a plan B or plan C when things go wrong. That's what frustrates me most. Doesn't seem like we're built to win in the postseason.

I'm not blaming DB for the lack of discipline. That's on the players. If that's why he gets canned, then our core players should be ashamed of themselves.
Are they ashamed at getting MT fired?

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Old
03-02-2013, 01:20 PM
  #223
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
I think the system can work. And it will bring out the best in PMD. But we don't have enough variation in the way we play teams. Not a plan B or plan C when things go wrong. That's what frustrates me most. Doesn't seem like we're built to win in the postseason.

I'm not blaming DB for the lack of discipline. That's on the players
. If that's why he gets canned, then our core players should be ashamed of themselves.
How is that not on Bylsma? That's coaching 101. Establish discipline & accountability. So if an entire team lacks discipline it's just an entire team of undisciplined players not the big one on top?

If the big guy doesn't care if you play defense than the 18 other guys sure aren't. They'll just keep believing they can solve everything with offense.

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03-02-2013, 01:23 PM
  #224
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I think some older fans think that what happened with Jagr will come to pass with Malkin for whatever reason, although this is a different era and they are two very different players.
What happen with Jagr can not be compaired with any player on this team past or present.

During that era I was related to a member of the Pens. I've been in the locker room before during games. Plus, I've broke bread with EJ, Tags, Rick Kehoe, Craig Patrick and Steve Latin.

I can not recall of any hotel in Atlantic City sending a private jet to fly Malkin down to the casino on off days. I never heard of Malkin laying bets on the NBA and checking what's going on in between periods.


Jagr was traded for his behavier and his huge contract. It's too bad we got three stiffs in return.


If you remember,
his house up for sale for a while for not paying his taxes. I do not know this for sure, but I was told Ron Francis took care of that.

A little known fact is that Jagr lost 20 million in the Stock Market.

Bottom line is you can not compaire Jagr to Malkin at all.

I do not want to rant and rave, but I get bent when I see Jagr's name because so few people know the truth.

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03-02-2013, 01:25 PM
  #225
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You're joking, right? Matt Greene, Willie Mitchell...they define 'crease-clearing defenseman'. Doughty is one annoying SOB to play against, too.

And the day we are as skilled as Chicago is the day everybody here will stop caring about defense altogether. Because it won't matter nearly as much.
Doughty is a crease clearing D-man? You've never watched a single LA game have you?

Willie Mitchell & Matt Greener are our Orpik & Engelland. They have the same amount of grit guys on the back as we do. Difference is the entire team believes in playing defense.

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