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Pretender or Contender? How do these teams rate?

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Old
09-24-2003, 12:21 AM
  #51
andora
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Anaheim Mighty Ducks
Colorado Avalanche
Los Angeles Kings
Toronto Maple Leafs
Dallas Stars
Vancouver Canucks
Ottawa Senators
St Louis Blues
Detroit Red Wings
Philadelphia Flyers
New York Rangers
Tampa Bay Lightning
Edmonton Oilers
Minnesota Wild
Nashville Predators
Montreal Canadiens
Boston Bruins
Washington Capitals
New Jersey

all are pretenders outside of colorado, dallas, ottawa, st.louis, detroit, and philadelphia IMHO...

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Old
09-24-2003, 02:56 AM
  #52
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AB, I'm sorry but I think NJ is the 3rd most powerful team in the NHL behind Ottawa and Detroit. I don't see how losing Nieuwendyk and Daneyko while adding Brown, Rasmussen will hurt the team that much. I want to hear you reasoning here.

 
Old
09-24-2003, 03:33 AM
  #53
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Anaheim Mighty Ducks CONTENDER

Colorado Avalanche CONTENDER (depending on the Swiss Miss)

Los Angeles Kings (outside chance)

Toronto Maple Leafs CONTENDER

Dallas Stars CONTENDER

Vancouver Canucks CONTENDER

Ottawa Senators Almost CONTENDER

St Louis Blues CONTENDER

Detroit Red Wings CONTENDER

Philadelphia Flyers (close)

New York Rangers PRETENDER

Tampa Bay Lightning PRETENDER

Edmonton Oilers (outside chance)

Minnesota Wild CONTENDER

Nashville Predators PRETENDER

Montreal Canadiens PRETENDER

Boston Bruins PRETENDER

Washington Capitals PRETENDER

New Jersey CONTENDER

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Old
09-24-2003, 03:34 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonMacIsaac
AB, I'm sorry but I think NJ is the 3rd most powerful team in the NHL behind Ottawa and Detroit. I don't see how losing Nieuwendyk and Daneyko while adding Brown, Rasmussen will hurt the team that much. I want to hear you reasoning here.
A whole new season is about to start, people easily forget who won the previous one. Also during off seasons, threads like this are all based on roster talent and frankly, the Devils come up short in that regard. If my memmory reminds me correctly, they weren't last season's favorite by any means either, so I wouldn't read too much into it.

IMO they are still the beast from the east, above the Sens, but below the Wings and maybe Stars.

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Old
09-24-2003, 03:40 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyvern
Anaheim Mighty Ducks CONTENDER

Colorado Avalanche CONTENDER (depending on the Swiss Miss)

Los Angeles Kings (outside chance)

Toronto Maple Leafs CONTENDER

Dallas Stars CONTENDER

Vancouver Canucks CONTENDER

Ottawa Senators Almost CONTENDER

St Louis Blues CONTENDER

Detroit Red Wings CONTENDER

Philadelphia Flyers (close)

New York Rangers PRETENDER

Tampa Bay Lightning PRETENDER

Edmonton Oilers (outside chance)

Minnesota Wild CONTENDER

Nashville Predators PRETENDER

Montreal Canadiens PRETENDER

Boston Bruins PRETENDER

Washington Capitals PRETENDER

New Jersey CONTENDER
You wouldn't be a leaf fan would you? how are they rated higher than Ottawa, Philly, and even LA?

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Old
09-24-2003, 03:43 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MOOSE55
You wouldn't be a leaf fan would you? how are they rated higher than Ottawa, Philly, and even LA?
My bet is their playoff succes.. always seem to rise their level in the postseason...

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Old
09-24-2003, 04:13 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MOOSE55
You wouldn't be a leaf fan would you? how are they rated higher than Ottawa, Philly, and even LA?
I'm not really a Leafs fan at all. I feel that they do have a decent team though. And good goaltending.

Philly is decent, but somewhat lacking.

If I had to put em in order some kinda order... I'll do it in groups or tiers.

New Jersey
Vancouver
Colorado (if the goalie situation becomes a problem, they will fix it)

Detroit
Dallas
Anaheim
Minnesota
St. Louis

Ott
Toronto
Philly
Los Angeles
Edmonton


All the Pretenders

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Old
09-24-2003, 04:29 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Modano = God
A whole new season is about to start, people easily forget who won the previous one. Also during off seasons, threads like this are all based on roster talent and frankly, the Devils come up short in that regard. If my memmory reminds me correctly, they weren't last season's favorite by any means either, so I wouldn't read too much into it.

IMO they are still the beast from the east, above the Sens, but below the Wings and maybe Stars.

I would disagree and put the Devils below the Sens, but above the Wings and Stars.

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Old
09-24-2003, 04:32 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyvern
I'm not really a Leafs fan at all. I feel that they do have a decent team though. And good goaltending.

Philly is decent, but somewhat lacking.

If I had to put em in order some kinda order... I'll do it in groups or tiers.

New Jersey
Vancouver
Colorado (if the goalie situation becomes a problem, they will fix it)

Detroit
Dallas
Anaheim
Minnesota
St. Louis

Ott
Toronto
Philly
Los Angeles
Edmonton


All the Pretenders
Ottawa listed that low is a joke.

Vancouver, Toronto, Minnesota & Edmonton too high.

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Old
09-24-2003, 04:45 AM
  #60
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I just don't think the Sens will have that great of a year.

As for Vancouver, I think they will only improve on last season.

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Old
09-24-2003, 04:58 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyvern
I just don't think the Sens will have that great of a year.

As for Vancouver, I think they will only improve on last season.
Based on what?

Ottawa will have Spezza up all season, a more mature Volchenkov, and a team with loads more playoff experience after going to the wire with the Devils. Assuming Havlat gets signed, just add Spezza and Schastlivy (and a full year of Smolinski) to their arsenal.

Vancouver added Arvedson, lost Klatt and traded for Hedberg.

I think both will be dangerous.

It's like Aerosmith says:

"You've got to lose to know how to win."

 
Old
09-24-2003, 05:03 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Anaheim Mighty Ducks
Colorado Avalanche
Los Angeles Kings
Toronto Maple Leafs
Dallas Stars
Vancouver Canucks
Ottawa Senators
St Louis Blues
Detroit Red Wings
Philadelphia Flyers
New York Rangers
Tampa Bay Lightning
Edmonton Oilers
Minnesota Wild
Nashville Predators
Montreal Canadiens
Boston Bruins
Washington Capitals
Edit: Add New Jersey
ANA --They will be back in the playoffs easily this year. Not cup bound.
COL---Very scary except for the no real goalie, contender all the way
LA--With old injuries still nagging their players, I don't see them in the
race for the cup.
TOR--solid team but don't have enough scoring to make it..pretender
DAL--Definitely a contender
VAN--Contender but suspect because their big guns don't score when
they need it in the playoffs.
OTT--Contender all the way, need to get Havlat signed.
STL--will make the playoffs, that's about it, they will fade as usual
DET--Scary defense, old offense. Contender
PHI--(biased of course) Contender, 5 lines deep but goalie sit. is a
problem.
TAM--Up and coming still not enough to make it through a NJ, TOR or
PHI in the playoffs and they lost Prospal to ANA.
NYR--Not going to do anything this year.
EDM--May miss the playoffs, few teams in the West may come up.
MIN--No Gaborik, no contender
NAS--Not a contender, good young team though
MON--Saku is the leader but other than that, nope, no contender
BOS--will make the playoffs but that's it. Not a contender
WAS--Not a contender period.

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Old
09-24-2003, 05:11 AM
  #63
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Anaheim Mighty Ducks - Pretender

Colorado Avalanche - Pretender until they get a goalie

Los Angeles Kings - Pretender

Toronto Maple Leafs - Huge pretender

Dallas Stars - Contender

Vancouver Canucks - Contender

Ottawa Senators - Contender

St Louis Blues - Pretender

Detroit Red Wings - Contender

Philadelphia Flyers - Pretender

New York Rangers - Pretender

Tampa Bay Lightning - Pretender

Edmonton Oilers - Pretender

Minnesota Wild - Pretender

Nashville Predators - pretender

Montreal Canadiens - Pretender

Boston Bruins - Pretender

Washington Capitals - Pretender

New Jersey - Contender

So to recap, there are 4 contenders and 5 if PL makes a move for a goalie. They are as follows:

Ottawa
New Jersey
Detroit
Dallas
maybe Colorado

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Old
09-24-2003, 05:11 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyvern
I just don't think the Sens will have that great of a year.

As for Vancouver, I think they will only improve on last season.
Tell me why Vanouver improves, but Ottawa falls back. Barring a rash of injuries they should only be better than last year.

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Old
09-24-2003, 05:13 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onearmedbandit14
So to recap, there are 4 contenders and 5 if PL makes a move for a goalie. They are as follows:

Ottawa
New Jersey
Detroit
Dallas
maybe Colorado
Nice to see the team that swept you out of the playoffs, and then took your most valuable forward isn't a contender.

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Old
09-24-2003, 05:18 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Nice to see the team that swept you out of the playoffs, and then took your most valuable forward isn't a contender.
I don't know if you've ever heard of a one-year wonder. So because they beat Detroit last year means they can win the Cup this year? The odds of Giguere being God for three rounds to get them to the finals are slim and none, and slim just left town. They are pretenders for sure. Just wait and see.

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Old
09-24-2003, 05:22 AM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onearmedbandit14
I don't know if you've ever heard of a one-year wonder. So because they beat Detroit last year means they can win the Cup this year? The odds of Giguere being God for three rounds to get them to the finals are slim and none, and slim just left town. They are pretenders for sure. Just wait and see.

Giguere has been a good goalie for a couple of years now. Not just for 2 months last spring. I don't expect him to be that good again come playoff time, but the team around him is better.

Fedorov & Prospal >> Oates & Kariya

Also they had the 2nd best record in the West from Jan. 1 on last year.


Do I consider them the favorite? No, but they certainly are a team that others need to be aware of.

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Old
09-24-2003, 05:48 AM
  #68
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So, what's the moral of the story?

For the first time in a while, there are no powerhouses in the west. Arguably, no top team in the WC improved in the offseason (except for maybe Vancouver w/ the addition of their future starting goaltender, Hedberg). Every team has a weakness and there is no clear favorite and it's hard to draw the line between the pretenders and the contenders. IMO, any one of STL, DAL, DET, COL, VAN, and LA could win the West (Some would include ANA in there. I wouldn't). It's definately going to be an interesting year.

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Old
09-24-2003, 05:51 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by degroat
So, what's the moral of the story?

For the first time in a while, there are no powerhouses in the west. Arguably, no top team in the WC improved in the offseason (except for maybe Vancouver w/ the addition of their future starting goaltender, Hedberg). Every team has a weakness and there is no clear favorite and it's hard to draw the line between the pretenders and the contenders. IMO, any one of STL, DAL, DET, COL, VAN, and LA could win the West (Some would include ANA in there. I wouldn't). It's definately going to be an interesting year.

I would agree as the teams are presently comprised, but ANH has to be included in that list, defending Conference Champs, and one of the few top teams in the West that should be better (regular season).

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Old
09-24-2003, 06:03 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
I would agree as the teams are presently comprised, but ANH has to be included in that list, defending Conference Champs, and one of the few top teams in the West that should be better (regular season).
I just don't agree. The Ducks made it where they were because Giguere posted a .945 save percentage in the playoffs. It was an amazing run and I would give just about anything for the Blues to make a similar run. But, the fact of the matter is that it takes defense and consistancy to be a successful regular season team. The Ducks, IMO, don't have the defense to contend for the top spot in the conference.

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Old
09-24-2003, 06:07 AM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by degroat
I just don't agree. The Ducks made it where they were because Giguere posted a .945 save percentage in the playoffs. It was an amazing run and I would give just about anything for the Blues to make a similar run. But, the fact of the matter is that it takes defense and consistancy to be a successful regular season team. The Ducks, IMO, don't have the defense to contend for the top spot in the conference.

I think if you take a look at the Ducks record from Jan. 1 on they were the 2nd best team in the West. Took them some time to adjust to Babcock and his more defensive system.

They have a good defense, and arguably the best goalie in the West.

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Old
09-24-2003, 06:25 AM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonMacIsaac
AB, I'm sorry but I think NJ is the 3rd most powerful team in the NHL behind Ottawa and Detroit. I don't see how losing Nieuwendyk and Daneyko while adding Brown, Rasmussen will hurt the team that much. I want to hear you reasoning here.
Hell, losing Nieuwendyk can't hurt that much. They did win the Cup without him.

I guess I'll chime in with my opinions...

WESTERN CONFERENCE CONTENDERS:
Anaheim - Giguere, Fedorov are all terrific playoff performers. Getting full seasons of great play from acquisitions like Niedermayer, Ozolinsh is key...but I think Babcock can pull it.

Dallas - They still have Turco, the best set of forwards in the West, and a pretty decent D.

Minnesota - They need to sign Gaborik and Dupuis, but they have the goaltending to make it. If they don't sign Gaborik and Dupuis, well, I'll be surprised if they make the playoffs.

WESTERN CONFERENCE PRETENDERS:
Vancouver - Goaltending. 'Nuf said.

St. Louis - Losing Stillman and Nash will hurt, Sejna and Danton will not be as good next season. MacInnis is a year older, and Mellanby really started playing poorly at the end of last season.

Detroit - Had problems scoring last season, departure of Fedorov and Larionov won't help that, the defense isn't a tremendous upgrade over last seasons, and who knows about Hasek? With arrival of Whitney, should continue to use a tremendous PP to burn teams...but that's not enough.

Colorado - Aebischer.

Los Angeles - Can't win with that blueline.

EASTERN CONFERENCE CONTENDERS
New Jersey - Hey, they did just win it, right?

Ottawa - They really need to sign Havlat.

EASTERN CONFERENCE PRETENDERS
Philadelphia - Blueline needs help (Desjardins is not a #1 defenceman), goaltending is worse than Colorado's (yep, it's just that bad), they need forwards who can pot more than 60 points in a season.

Toronto - Blueline. Injuries look to be an issue again, too. The Los Angeles of the East.

Tampa Bay - Blueline.

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Old
09-24-2003, 06:35 AM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit
Hell, losing Nieuwendyk can't hurt that much. They did win the Cup without him.

I guess I'll chime in with my opinions...

Minnesota - They need to sign Gaborik and Dupuis, but they have the goaltending to make it. If they don't sign Gaborik and Dupuis, well, I'll be surprised if they make the playoffs.

EASTERN CONFERENCE PRETENDERS
Philadelphia - Blueline needs help (Desjardins is not a #1 defenceman), goaltending is worse than Colorado's (yep, it's just that bad), they need forwards who can pot more than 60 points in a season.

Blueline is highly underrated.

Goatending is better than Colorado's, but certainly the biggest cause for concern.

We have a number of forwards wthat can score more than 60 pts. a year, injuries decemated our forwards last year.



I also think you are overrating the Wild.

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Old
09-24-2003, 06:36 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Tell me why Vanouver improves, but Ottawa falls back. Barring a rash of injuries they should only be better than last year.
I think Lalime had an outstanding season. I don't think he will have the same again.

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Old
09-24-2003, 06:37 AM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit
WESTERN CONFERENCE CONTENDERS:
Minnesota - They need to sign Gaborik and Dupuis, but they have the goaltending to make it. If they don't sign Gaborik and Dupuis, well, I'll be surprised if they make the playoffs.
Wow... I'm not sure I could disagree any more. IMO, they overachieved greatly last year and the majority of their success had to do with the fact that they had two goaltenders that posted .930 save percentages. I doubt that those two will repeat that.

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