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Next year's Lineup...

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Old
03-29-2005, 05:45 PM
  #76
fredez
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsaku
That doesnt make sense since I'm suggesting we trade a center to get bigger down the middle. I'm actually for more depth on center not less. Neither Koivu nor Ribeiro are number 1 centers nor will they probably ever be so I'd like us to adress that issue.

As of now, we have 3 number 2 centers and a future number 2 center in the making in Plecanek.
Oh please, I think we've been over this topic a hundred times : Saku Koivu IS a number one center. Stats prove it (points per game) and live play prove it. Saku's only weakness is his size and he plays with so much feistiness and determination that this weakness is invisible. He's one of these players that make everybody around him better and he's easily a Top 20 center in the league. How in the hell would you call him a #2 center.

Ribeiro was a #1 quality center last year and he can only get better.

Bonk was #1 center in Ottawa. OTTAWA for christ's sake.

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Old
03-29-2005, 09:14 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by E = CH²
I think Koivu's got one more year left on his contract. Didn't he sign a 3 years contract in the 03 off season ? Theodore is also coming back for sure.

Then there's the matter of Breezer and Kovalev. I think Breezer will be resigned at a reduced price. He'll want to stay in Mtl and ends his career here IMO.

As for Kovalev I don't see him back, but it could happen.

The others most probably will be all resigned.

It's true that we can't really predict with 100% accuracy, but those threads are always so much fun. If we just stop discussing possibilities for next season on the basis we can't know what's going to happen, this board just got a whole lot more boring.
Koivu and Theodore contracts are expired.

It's true that it's so boring without hockey. I'd like to play that "guess the line-up" game, but I can't really figure out since there'll be so many ufa and expired contracts. What if Aucoin and Niedermayer are ufa, that would be so great (if ever we can grab that kind player, something possible with a salary cap).

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Old
03-29-2005, 09:23 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredez
Oh please, I think we've been over this topic a hundred times : Saku Koivu IS a number one center. Stats prove it (points per game) and live play prove it. Saku's only weakness is his size and he plays with so much feistiness and determination that this weakness is invisible. He's one of these players that make everybody around him better and he's easily a Top 20 center in the league. How in the hell would you call him a #2 center.

Ribeiro was a #1 quality center last year and he can only get better.

Bonk was #1 center in Ottawa. OTTAWA for christ's sake.
That depends on what your definition of a number 1 center is and what standarts you have for one. If a number 1 center is a top 30 center and if he only needs to contribute a bit point-wise, then yes, they are all number 1 centers. But I have high standarts and to me, Koivu, Ribeiro and Bonk are all number 2 centers. Lets not forget Ottawa had weak center depth(IMO of course) and Bonk is FAR from being what you want for a number 1 guy. They wouldnt have dealt him for a freaking 3rd round pick if he was a bonafide number 1 center, heck they wouldnt have traded him for that if he was a number 2 guy.
Ribeiro cant carry a team on his shoulder, he neither has the physique, the strength, the leadership, the speed, the play style, the intensity, basically, hes a cute number 2 center, hes also a wuss.

Saku cant stay healthy, hes under 1ppg, hes undersized, hes more suited for internationnal play, hes a captain who fights his teammates, hes not a goal scorer at all. I mean, Alexei Yashin is a guy who makes his teammates better but I wouldnt touch him with a 10 feet pole. Saku's an average number 1 guy and an outstanding number 2 center.

BTW, stats dont prove it at all and live play, well you know, Deadmarsh plays like a madman, hes all over the ice(like a 1st line winger) but I doubt he's your dream of a 1st liner(healthy).

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03-29-2005, 09:32 PM
  #79
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We can make all the speculation we want about what Gainey will do or not do. However, one thing that BG has proven time over time in the past is that he is a patient guy that does not panic. He knows what it takes to build a contending. I am positive that he will not build a team based on UFAs that are looking for cash more then success.

Kovalev would make sense if he where to help Perezhogin but I am not sure this will be the case. Also I still wonder if these veterans that will have spent a year in a european league away from the long schedules and physical play will be able to come back in full shape and play the same level of hockey next year.

I would think that Bonk is there to bring experience on the third line. We keep talking about a top winger and peopel seem to forget that Ryder is already a top talent and will only get better. So if Koivu deservs a top line winger, Ryder may be the choice there. Bulis could complement these two guys... On the other hand we have a young center that reached 65pts last year. People do not seem to realize that this is significant. Koivu himself only exceeded 65pts once in his career. People should think about that a few times before writing him off and replace him with Plekanek. I would not be suprised to see Ribeiro hit levels that none of us expected him to reach. He is young and talented and we have talented wingers that can complement him well in the future. This is why I would not be afraid to stick a guy like Higgins on his side. Although his size does not show, Higgins plays a much bigger game then Dagenais, he would bring defensive awareness to that line and most importantly speed. He works well in the corners and would fit very well on the side of Ribeiro and Ryder. Keeping these guys together would groom them to be a dominant line for the future.

Koivu on the other hand is a magician that brings a lot more then what his stats are showing. I think he is the perfect guy to groom Perezhogin. Zednik benefits a lot from Koivu but the opposite is not that true. I think that removing him from the sides of Koivu could only help this team. Given that my lineup would look as follows assuming no UFA signing...

1. Bulis, Koivu, Perezhogin ---> Bulis would bring speed and defensive awareness
2. Higgins, Ribeiro, Ryder ---> Could be our 1st line by then end of the season
3. Hossa, Bonk, Zednik ---> A skilled third line with speed and size
4. Begin, Plekanek, Ward ---> Plekanek is a small pest that could play this role

These are four lines that are fairly well balanced and while they are numbered 1-2-3-4 either of these could shine on any given night. I think that this is the model that Julien would like to see. Yes a rookie on each line would be a lot. Although Hossa is not exactly a rookie. Now I admit this team would be small but I think would provide loads of speed....

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Old
03-29-2005, 10:17 PM
  #80
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Everyone seems to be extremely worried about size, but there's no way we're going to be smaller than last year, and we're certainly not going to play smaller. One player isn't going to make us a big team....we're going to be small, but we're going to be hard working and in your face....and I'm happy with that.

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Old
03-29-2005, 10:30 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan
Everyone seems to be extremely worried about size, but there's no way we're going to be smaller than last year, and we're certainly not going to play smaller. One player isn't going to make us a big team....we're going to be small, but we're going to be hard working and in your face....and I'm happy with that.

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Old
03-29-2005, 10:44 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsaku
Saku cant stay healthy, hes under 1ppg, hes undersized, hes more suited for internationnal play, hes a captain who fights his teammates, hes not a goal scorer at all. I mean, Alexei Yashin is a guy who makes his teammates better but I wouldnt touch him with a 10 feet pole. Saku's an average number 1 guy and an outstanding number 2 center.
Most of the NHL is under 1ppg. There were only 5 players at 82 points or more, in 2003-2004. I also think that his knee, while not comparable to a healthy knee, is more robust than earlier in his career (the last operation turned out to be a better fix than the previous), and is usable with a brace. Moreover, he's not the kind of player who can be intimidated, or he wouldn't captain the Finnish team.

I kinda like your lineup, Habruti. Let's spend the Kovy money on a defenseman. Wonder if we can get Niedermeier to come to Montreal.

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Old
03-30-2005, 08:28 AM
  #83
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No team with Bulis on the top line is going to centend for anything. I've suffered through Bulis in a scoring role for years now. We've finally got enough guys who are better suited for that role, why can't we just use them? Bulis is an ideal third liner, and that's where he should stay. Koivu's a fantastic playmaker, he should be on a line with people who can finish. Bulis doesn't have the hands for that. Zednik on the third line also makes little sense, I don't think his defensive game is up to snuff for that. Here's my lineup:

Zednik-Koivu-Perez
Higgins-Ribs-Ryder
Bulis-Bonk-Hossa
Begin-Pleks-Ward
*Dagenais, Sundstrom

I think it's pretty clear that there will be a fair bit of movement in the lines, especially towards the start of the season. Higgins and Hossa may see time on all of the lines, Perez I could see anywhere but the 4th, Pleks could end up on any line, though I doubt he plays on the 1st. Sundstroms going to get some playing time too, on the bottom two lines. I didn't even include Dagenais in my lineup, but I really think he can compete for a spot on the second line, depending on how far along he's come in the skating department. It's silly, but I almost hope somebody gets injured early on, so the lines will be a little more cemented.

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Old
03-30-2005, 08:38 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeaky
No team with Bulis on the top line is going to centend for anything. I've suffered through Bulis in a scoring role for years now. We've finally got enough guys who are better suited for that role, why can't we just use them? Bulis is an ideal third liner, and that's where he should stay. Koivu's a fantastic playmaker, he should be on a line with people who can finish. Bulis doesn't have the hands for that. Zednik on the third line also makes little sense, I don't think his defensive game is up to snuff for that. Here's my lineup:

Zednik-Koivu-Perez
Higgins-Ribs-Ryder
Bulis-Bonk-Hossa
Begin-Pleks-Ward
*Dagenais, Sundstrom

I think it's pretty clear that there will be a fair bit of movement in the lines, especially towards the start of the season. Higgins and Hossa may see time on all of the lines, Perez I could see anywhere but the 4th, Pleks could end up on any line, though I doubt he plays on the 1st. Sundstroms going to get some playing time too, on the bottom two lines. I didn't even include Dagenais in my lineup, but I really think he can compete for a spot on the second line, depending on how far along he's come in the skating department. It's silly, but I almost hope somebody gets injured early on, so the lines will be a little more cemented.
Bulis has just as much skills as any of our prospects, it's confidence that is an issue in his case. With the season's he's had, that might not be much of a problem now. Bulis has more skills than Z IMO.

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Old
03-30-2005, 08:43 AM
  #85
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How's the replacement player thing works? Let's say if NHL decided to go with replacement players, and the Habs honour all the existing NHL contracts they have (I believe we are still below the cap with existing contracts), does that mean we'll still see Koivu/Theodore etc? Or we won't see any players who belongs to NHLPA?


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Old
03-30-2005, 09:23 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeaky
No team with Bulis on the top line is going to centend for anything.
I’d agree that Jan Bulis is better suited for Bonk’s line than Koivu’s, but ……

Yesterday, Jan Bulis scored a 3rd period tying goal as his team advanced to the finals. You’re probably not a Czech, that’s ok, but Extraliga 1st liner Jan Bulis is currently contending for something.

…… and he leads playoff scoring heading into today’s games

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Old
03-30-2005, 09:39 AM
  #87
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Had a tough time finding it but here it is: http://hokej.idnes.cz/p_statistiky.a...ik=2004&cast=2

The stats for the playoffs.

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Old
03-30-2005, 09:43 AM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon
How's the replacement player thing works? Let's say if NHL decided to go with replacement players, and the Habs honour all the existing NHL contracts they have (I believe we are still below the cap with existing contracts), does that mean we'll still see Koivu/Theodore etc? Or we won't see any players who belongs to NHLPA?

It really depends on what the NHL is going to do. If they go with a selective lockout as has been suggested then no, we wouldn't see any NHLer who make over a certain amount of money(I heard it was a $1 million dollar limit, which seems a little low to me). If they use replacement players then it would be up to each individual NHLer to decide if he wanted to cross the picked line or not and be labelled a "scab" not that that should matter as that is how most fans see them this year anyways with them stealing jobs from all those in Europe.

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Old
03-30-2005, 10:21 AM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsaku
Saku cant stay healthy, hes under 1ppg, hes undersized, hes more suited for internationnal play, hes a captain who fights his teammates, hes not a goal scorer at all. I mean, Alexei Yashin is a guy who makes his teammates better but I wouldnt touch him with a 10 feet pole. Saku's an average number 1 guy and an outstanding number 2 center.
So, based on that, who do you consider to be a #1 centre? Guess how many centres had 1ppg last year..... 4. That's right, 4.

Joe Sakic 87 pts in 81 GP
Robert Lang 79 pts in 69 GP
Peter Forsberg 55 pts in 39 GP
Marc Savard 52 pts in 45 GP

But none of these qualify as a #1 centre either since 3 of them were injured (Forsberg, Savard, even Lang played 69 games compared to Saku's 68) and Sakic and Savard are "undersized" since both under 6 feet.

So just what do you want as a #1 centre? Sundin? Less than 1 ppg. Thornton? Less than 1 ppg and got schooled by Koivu in the playoffs. Lecavalier? Only got one more pt than Ribeiro.

Ribeiro was tied with Fedorov at 10th amongst centres with 65 pts last year. Koivu missed 14 games and still finished 23rd amongst centres, and was simply incredible in the playoffs. That to me is two #1 centres on this team, and a very good one in Bonk as well. Montreal hasn't had this insane centre depth in years. Be happy about it. If you want to go back to the days of Linden and Darby playing centre just because they're big, suit yourself.

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Old
03-30-2005, 11:22 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrozenPond
I’d agree that Jan Bulis is better suited for Bonk’s line than Koivu’s, but ……

Yesterday, Jan Bulis scored a 3rd period tying goal as his team advanced to the finals. You’re probably not a Czech, that’s ok, but Extraliga 1st liner Jan Bulis is currently contending for something.

…… and he leads playoff scoring heading into today’s games
Sundstrom is a scoring star in Europe too, I wouldn't hold your breath for that to continue in the NHL. Bulis is having a fantastic year in Europe, but I'm unconvinced that his offensive game will carry over to the NHL.

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03-30-2005, 12:13 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeaky
Sundstrom is a scoring star in Europe too, I wouldn't hold your breath for that to continue in the NHL. Bulis is having a fantastic year in Europe, but I'm unconvinced that his offensive game will carry over to the NHL.
Sundstrom is playing in the crappy Italian league while Bulis is outscoring Milan Hejduk. There's no comparison whatsoever.

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03-30-2005, 12:16 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KILLger
Sundstrom is playing in the crappy Italian league while Bulis is outscoring Milan Hejduk. There's no comparison whatsoever.
but Bulis is playing with Hedjuk.. It will be interesting to see Bulis in the NHL again.

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03-30-2005, 12:20 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewHabsArea
but Bulis is playing with Hedjuk.. It will be interesting to see Bulis in the NHL again.
He still has more goals and points in the playoffs and had a better PPG in the season.

Can't wait to see him in a Habs uniform either.

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03-30-2005, 12:24 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KILLger
Sundstrom is playing in the crappy Italian league while Bulis is outscoring Milan Hejduk. There's no comparison whatsoever.
That's not point, or even my intention. The point is that scoring in Europe doesn't mean scoring in the NHL. It's a different game, and different abilities will allow you to put up points.

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03-30-2005, 01:51 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewHabsArea
but Bulis is playing with Hedjuk.. It will be interesting to see Bulis in the NHL again.
Sorry to burst everyones bubble, but european success means little. I think we'll see good old stone hands Bulis once the NHL resumes.

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03-30-2005, 02:00 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsaku
Sorry to burst everyones bubble, but european success means little. I think we'll see good old stone hands Bulis once the NHL resumes.
He's shown flashes of brilliance everywhere he's been, he's surely not stone handed... the guy lacked confidence and didn't shoot enough. I'm not saying he's going to score 40 or whatever. 25 isn't out of reach though. Added with his defensive conscience and hustle, he's a definite good addition to a 2nd line or an OK compliment to a 1st. He won't be a superstar over night, but he should put up 50/60 points, given ice time.

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03-30-2005, 02:01 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeaky
Zednik-Koivu-Perez
Higgins-Ribs-Ryder
Bulis-Bonk-Hossa
Begin-Pleks-Ward
*Dagenais, Sundstrom
IMO, that's the best looking and most probable line-up for whenever NHL hockey resumes. Bulis is the perfect 3rd line winger and will be that much better with Bonk. I'd probably put Sundstrom ahead of Hossa to complete that line however.
Zednik would be lost without Koivu, so there's no point in moving him anywhere.

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03-30-2005, 02:31 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Fozz
IMO, that's the best looking and most probable line-up for whenever NHL hockey resumes. Bulis is the perfect 3rd line winger and will be that much better with Bonk. I'd probably put Sundstrom ahead of Hossa to complete that line however.
Zednik would be lost without Koivu, so there's no point in moving him anywhere.
Looking at it now I think I agree with you, that spot would belong to Sunny before Hossa. Again though, it would all change quite often, I think.

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03-31-2005, 09:47 AM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeaky
Looking at it now I think I agree with you, that spot would belong to Sunny before Hossa. Again though, it would all change quite often, I think.
You're right. That's the funny thing about trying to predict line-ups... It's more or less a futile exercise since line-ups change all the time anyways.

As for Hossa, I'm not saying it can't happen but he would have to steal the job from Sundstrom with a great training camp (if the is one...).

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03-31-2005, 12:32 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fozz
IMO, that's the best looking and most probable line-up for whenever NHL hockey resumes. Bulis is the perfect 3rd line winger and will be that much better with Bonk. I'd probably put Sundstrom ahead of Hossa to complete that line however.
Zednik would be lost without Koivu, so there's no point in moving him anywhere.
Zednik is lost everywhere! He has absolutly no passing game!! he is selfish and ruins many opportunity for the habs.

Trading him is the best thing that could happen to us or putting him on a checking line could also help us whith his speed!

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