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The media is not all over Kessel's goal production because...

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Old
03-04-2013, 01:04 PM
  #151
Bomber0104
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
I've mentioned that in the past as well, seems pretty apparent if you watch all season with eyes wide open.
So now we are excusing Kessel's terrible play with a make-believe injury?

This place sometimes..

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03-04-2013, 01:04 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Joey Hoser View Post
It wasn't even the worst trade we had made with Boston in a 5-6 year span.

Rask for Raycroft was worse.

In the Kessel trade, we got a guy who finished 6th in scoring.

In the Rask trade, we traded a quality #1 goalie for a train-wreck of a goalie who you could easily argue cost us a playoff birth or more.
Yep, not even close.

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03-04-2013, 01:06 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Reality...

[CENTER]Dougie Hamilton (rookie) : 11 points in 19 games (47 point pace)
Tyler Seguin (3rd year) : 15 points in 19 games (64 point pace)
Do both of Hamilton and Seguin play injured too? Why Boston media is not on their case for such a lackluster production? For playing such a sheltered minutes Seguin cannot even outproduce rookie in Kardi? Pfrrrrrr....

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03-04-2013, 01:06 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Took us closer to the playoffs than any other season Kessel was with us.
Raycroft didn't take us anywhere. As I just said his save percentage was like .890. That's doesn't take a team anywhere. That costs them games. We almost made the playoffs in spite of him, not because of him. To argue this is absurd. He was terrible and you know it.

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Never factored into them winning the Cup at all. Boston wins the Cup with or without Rask on the bench.
Who cares? I never argued that. He's still a very good goalie.

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If Seguin doesn't light up Tampa they don't advance...I'd say that's pretty integral.

16 games to win the Cup and Seguin personally grabs 1....yet not integral...
Being integral would imply you are a major factor a lot more often then once every 16 games.

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03-04-2013, 01:07 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by mix1home View Post
Great minds think alike. Cheers.
Yeah, I think it's pretty obvious. Probably ribs injury or something, but he tries to hold the fort as we are in PO position right now and losing him would hurt the team badly.
Yeah it's a shame. He really was beginning to look more committed at both ends of the ice. Hopefully it's not something that will last all year.

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03-04-2013, 01:07 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Joey Hoser View Post
So you can but I can't?
Note the words "quite possibly"...i.e. it's in the realm of possibilities.

You on the other hand seem to know exactly what Kessel is and isn't going to do for us in the future with such absolute statements like the Rask trade is worse than the Kessel one.

That's like saying in 2007 that the Raycroft trade is NOT worse than the Ron Francis trade because Raycroft is an NHL goalie and Rask is just a backup goalie.

That's pretty much exactly what you're saying here...but since we humans can't see into the future...statements like these are really pointless.

In the meantime, we can call the Kessel trade a disaster, with potential to get worse.

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03-04-2013, 01:08 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by mix1home View Post
Do both of Hamilton and Seguin play injured too? Why Boston media is not on their case for such a lackluster production? For playing such a sheltered minutes Seguin cannot even outproduce rookie in Kardi? Pfrrrrrr....
He's not injured.

This is fiction.

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03-04-2013, 01:11 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
So now we are excusing Kessel's terrible play with a make-believe injury?

This place sometimes..
Don't shake your head. If you cannot see drastic difference between how Kessel played in the beginning of the season and last few games you should restrain yourself from providing your opinions on hockey at all. That is because you have absolutely no credibility as a result.

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03-04-2013, 01:12 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Note the words "quite possibly"...i.e. it's in the realm of possibilities.

You on the other hand seem to know exactly what Kessel is and isn't going to do for us in the future with such absolute statements like the Rask trade is worse than the Kessel one.

That's like saying in 2007 that the Raycroft trade is NOT worse than the Ron Francis trade because Raycroft is an NHL goalie and Rask is just a backup goalie.

That's pretty much exactly what you're saying here...but since we humans can't see into the future...statements like these are really pointless.

In the meantime, we can call the Kessel trade a disaster, with potential to get worse.
I don't understand how you can fail to see the hypocricy here. I guess that's what I get for trying to reason with people who are still having a hissy fit over a bad hockey trade that happened nearly 4 years ago.

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03-04-2013, 01:12 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Joey Hoser View Post
Raycroft didn't take us anywhere. As I just said his save percentage was like .890. That's doesn't take a team anywhere. That costs them games. We almost made the playoffs in spite of him, not because of him. To argue this is absurd. He was terrible and you know it.
But he was an NHL goalie and Rask was just a prospects...errr...backup...errr...on a good team.

This is what I've been reading here since 2007.

How wrong were these people who thought they can see into the future?

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Who cares? I never argued that. He's still a very good goalie.
Yes but I also hear he never would have developed the same way here as he did in Boston..he would be a totally different player...therefore its not a bad deal.

Again, this is what I've been reading here since 2007 (check the Tlusty thread).

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Being integral would imply you are a major factor a lot more often then once every 16 games.
Oh but he was...playing responsible top six minutes.

You should really be talking to Bruins fans who watched their team's Cup run. Doesn't sound like you watched.

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03-04-2013, 01:14 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
He's not injured.

This is fiction.
You don't know, but probably wrong. But what about Kadri argument? Do you agree that playing sheltered minutes on Cup winning Boston team Seguin cannot even outproduce rookie Kadri?

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03-04-2013, 01:15 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by mix1home View Post
Don't shake your head. If you cannot see drastic difference between how Kessel played in the beginning of the season and last few games you should restrain yourself from providing your opinions on hockey at all. That is because you have absolutely no credibility as a result.
You have absolutely no proof in any shape or form that Kessel even has a tiny bump on his elbow.

The only reason your saying he's injured (without any proof) is because he's playing terribly and you need a make-believe excuse.

Don't talk to me about credibility please...I don't conjure up fantasies to make myself feel better about a player's TERRIBLE play.

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03-04-2013, 01:17 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by mix1home View Post
You don't know, but probably wrong. But what about Kadri argument? Do you agree that playing sheltered minutes on Cup winning Boston team Seguin cannot even outproduce rookie Kadri?
I'm probably wrong because I don't buy a few internet posters' unsubstantiated rumor? LOL

If Seguin and Bergeron's minutes are sheltered, I have no idea what you must think of Kadri's minutes.

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03-04-2013, 01:18 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
But he was an NHL goalie and Rask was just a prospects...errr...backup...errr...on a good team.

This is what I've been reading here since 2007.

How wrong were these people who thought they can see into the future?



Yes but I also hear he never would have developed the same way here as he did in Boston..he would be a totally different player...therefore its not a bad deal.

Again, this is what I've been reading here since 2007 (check the Tlusty thread).
What the hell are you talking about? I never made any of those arguments nor do I agree with them.


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Oh but he was...playing responsible top six minutes.

You should really be talking to Bruins fans who watched their team's Cup run. Doesn't sound like you watched.
No, he got 10:35 a game.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...ewName=summary

Since you're just trying to argue against things I'm not even saying, and outright lying about things that have happened, I'm going to just bail from this conversation. What's the point?

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03-04-2013, 01:20 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Joey Hoser View Post
I don't understand how you can fail to see the hypocricy here. I guess that's what I get for trying to reason with people who are still having a hissy fit over a bad hockey trade that happened nearly 4 years ago.
There's no hypocrisy because I am open to possibilites whereas you are standing behind absolute statements of fact which are not even close to being fact.

Me saying the Kessel trade is one of the worst trades in decades with potential to get worse is not the same as you definitively stating that it IS NOT (absolute) worse than the Rask trade.

A huge part of argumentation is being able to discern between statements of fact and statements of opinion which you seem to lack.

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03-04-2013, 01:25 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by Joey Hoser View Post
No, he got 10:35 a game.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...ewName=summary

Since you're just trying to argue against things I'm not even saying, and outright lying about things that have happened, I'm going to just bail from this conversation. What's the point?
Again, you should be talking to Bruins fans because it's obvious you're just getting all your information from nhl.com and not from what actually happened.

He played top six minutes during the Tampa series and was not used during the Vancouver series.

The first two series he was in the pressbox.

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03-04-2013, 01:27 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Don't talk to me about credibility please...I don't conjure up fantasies to make myself feel better about a player's TERRIBLE play.
Yeah, I see. You don't try to watch hockey or think reasonably/critically either. I explained the reasons above and I can definitely talk about credibility here, which you have none of.

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03-04-2013, 01:30 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by mix1home View Post
Yeah, I see. You don't try to watch hockey or think reasonably/critically either. I explained the reasons above and I can definitely talk about credibility here, which you have none of.
For some watching and understanding is not needed.

Anything Burke touched is bad, no thought required.

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03-04-2013, 01:30 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
I'm probably wrong because I don't buy a few internet posters' unsubstantiated rumor? LOL

If Seguin and Bergeron's minutes are sheltered, I have no idea what you must think of Kadri's minutes.
So you are avoiding the question about Kadri. Ok. Got it. Thanks for coming out with your opinion.

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03-04-2013, 01:33 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by mix1home View Post
Yeah, I see. You don't try to watch hockey or think reasonably/critically either. I explained the reasons above and I can definitely talk about credibility here, which you have none of.
Actually I watch all teams as a Gamecenter live subscriber.

If a team is willfully playing an injured player, they are being terribly irresponsible. Carlyle has never played a player through injury (Orr), giving them the rest they need to not negatively impact the team (like Kessel has been doing).

You saying he has an injury is fiction. Nothing more.

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Originally Posted by mix1home View Post
So you are avoiding the question about Kadri. Ok. Got it. Thanks for coming out with your opinion.
I'm asking in what shape or form is PATRICE BERGERON (and his wingers) receiving sheltered minutes?

If Patrice Bergeron and Seguin are being sheltered, then you must think Kadri's minutes are being sheltered like 50 times more.

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03-04-2013, 01:38 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
A huge part of argumentation is being able to discern between statements of fact and statements of opinion which you seem to lack.
The guy pulling out strawman arguments and special pleading is trying to tell me what makes good argumentation. Hilarious.

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03-04-2013, 01:43 PM
  #172
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I never understood this whole argument about the trade. The mistake made in the trade was BURKE and his evaluation with the team when he made the trade which Wilson also had a huge part in with his I only coach one way philosophy. If the picks were 8th and 12th overall everyone would be saying what a great trade it was. The only people who are still pissed about this trade are the people who have the pipe dream of tanking which will never happen especially with the new lottery.

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03-04-2013, 01:46 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by mix1home View Post
So you are avoiding the question about Kadri. Ok. Got it. Thanks for coming out with your opinion.
Seguin is on the shutdown line against the other teams best players and still puts up good numbers. I don't believe that line has been in the negative all this season. I'll take a handful of points less if you are keeping the other teams best players from scoring, it's how you win games. Also it seems that Kessel's game has been trending downward while the exact opposite could be said of Seguin.

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03-04-2013, 01:53 PM
  #174
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Seguin is on the shutdown line against the other teams best players and still puts up good numbers. I don't believe that line has been in the negative all this season. I'll take a handful of points less if you are keeping the other teams best players from scoring, it's how you win games. Also it seems that Kessel's game has been trending downward while the exact opposite could be said of Seguin.
Trending downward is putting it kindly as to Kessel's game particularly the last 2. Even Leaf fans themselves wouldn't sugar coat his performance that nicely. Based on his play alone he is lucky his name is Kessel, otherwise he would find himself in the pressbox on merit of play.

In those games of the 8 even strength goals against Kessel has been on the ice for 6 of those generating a -6 +/-. Some of those goals directly a result of Kessel turnovers.

I think the media is being kind only because the Leafs are winning despite Kessel, rather than because of him.

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03-04-2013, 01:55 PM
  #175
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Yeah, I mean, his production has dropped by like 20% in the first 20 or so games.

Obviously his career is over, while Seguin will obviously be in the Hall of Fame by 25 years old.

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