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KHL Revenues/Attendance

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Old
02-24-2009, 05:54 PM
  #1
malkinfan
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KHL Revenues/Attendance

Just curious to how the KHL does in terms of attendance and revenues. I know that 55% of nhl revenue comes from season tickets. how much of khl would you say?
Also, are teams with smaller rinks going o get bigger ones soon. I noticed that most teams have around 7-10 thousand capacity. But some smaller arenas like vityaz can't even reach 2000 capacity. We get more people to our junior c playoff games than that here. will they get a bigger rink, and why do they not sell out. Must be poor marketing. also SKA has I believe the biggest with almost 14000 capacity. How often do they sell out?
NHL rinks have capacity of 20-23 thousand, so realistically khl rinks will have to get bigger although not that big, if they want a healthy financial structure right?

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02-25-2009, 01:33 AM
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Attendance KHL

http://stats.sportbox.ru/games.php?s...pitem=7#podval

Avangard 7881
Salavat Julaev 6967
Lokomotiv 6955
Dinamo R 6093
Amur 6005
Sibir' 5852
Atlant 5716
SKA 5672
Ak Bars 5543
Dinamo M 5130
Torpedo 5106
Metallurg Mg 5008
Barys 4938
CSKA 4691
HK MVD 4584
Metallurg Nk 4534
Neftehimik 4488
Traktor 4338
Spartak 4325
Himik 4102
Lada 4041
Dinamo Mn 3990
Severstal' 3917
Vitjaz' 3624

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02-25-2009, 01:35 AM
  #3
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I'm prepping to see a mass exodus of KHL players back to the NHL, which could in turn drive existing player salaries down as the labor market has an excess available. This would work great if the cap stays the same/drops anytime soon.

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Old
02-25-2009, 05:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MistaWrista View Post
I'm prepping to see a mass exodus of KHL players back to the NHL
Reason being?

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02-25-2009, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cors View Post
Attendance KHL

http://stats.sportbox.ru/games.php?s...pitem=7#podval

Avangard 7881
Salavat Julaev 6967
Lokomotiv 6955
Dinamo R 6093
Amur 6005
Sibir' 5852
Atlant 5716
SKA 5672
Ak Bars 5543
Dinamo M 5130
Torpedo 5106
Metallurg Mg 5008
Barys 4938
CSKA 4691
HK MVD 4584
Metallurg Nk 4534
Neftehimik 4488
Traktor 4338
Spartak 4325
Himik 4102
Lada 4041
Dinamo Mn 3990
Severstal' 3917
Vitjaz' 3624
Pathetic attendances. If you look at these figures you would think that hockey is becoming a second-rate sport in Russia.

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Old
02-25-2009, 06:44 AM
  #6
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Originally Posted by Peter25 View Post
Pathetic attendances. If you look at these figures you would think that hockey is becoming a second-rate sport in Russia.
Well, it is, like everywhere else outside of Canada

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02-25-2009, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Cors View Post
Attendance KHL
Seems like this attendance from sportbox.ru for top teams is by a thnd or so lower than here

http://www.hockeyarenas.net/index.ph...ID=ru&tmID=249


http://www.hockeyarenas.net/index.ph...ID=ru&tmID=118

Loko attendance has been always around of 9 thnd, for example

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Old
02-25-2009, 11:48 AM
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low attendance + drop in fossil fuel futures + poor resource development by Russia + Oil Barons in trouble

This will be a period of adjustment in the KHL. If it survives it will not be trying to compete with the NHL, but must be operate based on real revenue streams

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02-25-2009, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by kyle747 View Post
low attendance + drop in fossil fuel futures + poor resource development by Russia + Oil Barons in trouble
I am surprised there's no "no democracy" in this "explanation"

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02-25-2009, 08:09 PM
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The KHL couldn't have picked a worse year to start economy wise.

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Old
02-26-2009, 01:55 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter25 View Post
Pathetic attendances. If you look at these figures you would think that hockey is becoming a second-rate sport in Russia.
Then again, if Canada had 20 NHL teams, would it be much better? Look at the pathetic attendance for most Canadian AHL and CHL teams. Considering the wages of the average Russian, Belarussian, Latvian and Kazakh, and the economy, it could be worse.

Also wanted to note that for Dinamo Riga the figures are lower due to two of their home games being played in their practice arena which only holds about 1,500 and another two being played in Finland, where attendance was about that as well (This was due to the arena being previously booked for concerts and basketball). On average they're getting about 7,000 - 8,000 in the main rink, with several sellouts (10,600).

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02-26-2009, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cors View Post
Attendance KHL

http://stats.sportbox.ru/games.php?s...pitem=7#podval

Avangard 7881
Salavat Julaev 6967
Lokomotiv 6955
Dinamo R 6093
Amur 6005
Sibir' 5852
Atlant 5716
SKA 5672
Ak Bars 5543
Dinamo M 5130
Torpedo 5106
Metallurg Mg 5008
Barys 4938
CSKA 4691
HK MVD 4584
Metallurg Nk 4534
Neftehimik 4488
Traktor 4338
Spartak 4325
Himik 4102
Lada 4041
Dinamo Mn 3990
Severstal' 3917
Vitjaz' 3624
Nice figures considering Lada's maximum attendance is 2900 and Dinamo's 3600...

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Old
02-26-2009, 07:21 AM
  #13
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
Nice figures considering Lada's maximum attendance is 2900 and Dinamo's 3600...
3200 to be exact for Lada. 4800 for DMinsk

I think these are averages over all games, not just home games. Because home games of Loko, Ufa, AO, Magnitka are higher attendance than those numbers. But really, I have no idea where sportbox is taking those numbers from.

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02-26-2009, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by v-man View Post
T Considering the wages of the average Russian, Belarussian, Latvian and Kazakh, and the economy, it could be worse.
Tickets are not expensive. It's just a general lack of interest.

Quote:
On average they're getting about 7,000 - 8,000 in the main rink, with several sellouts (10,600).
All top teams have higher attendence than those numbers, these are home and away averages me thinks.

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02-26-2009, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v-man View Post
Then again, if Canada had 20 NHL teams, would it be much better? Look at the pathetic attendance for most Canadian AHL and CHL teams.
Manitoba gets around 10,000 fans a game, almost twice of what any KHL team receives. Actually KHL attendances are similar to AHL. And CHL, well London is treated as an NHL team. Junior hockey recieves very good attendances and is a very profitable business. Junior B and some C teams are even very profitable.
I think KHL has bad marketing. The attendance figures wouldn't be so bad if they didn't pay players so much..

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02-26-2009, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by malkinfan View Post
Manitoba gets around 10,000 fans a game, almost twice of what any KHL team receives.
Top KHL teams gather 8-10 thnd at the home games....

Quote:
The attendance figures wouldn't be so bad if they didn't pay players so much..
What's the relation? Attendance is bad in Moscow, St. Pete because those are soccer cities. In hockey towns it is limited by the arena capacity.

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02-26-2009, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malkinfan View Post
Manitoba gets around 10,000 fans a game, almost twice of what any KHL team receives. Actually KHL attendances are similar to AHL. And CHL, well London is treated as an NHL team. Junior hockey recieves very good attendances and is a very profitable business. Junior B and some C teams are even very profitable.
I think KHL has bad marketing. The attendance figures wouldn't be so bad if they didn't pay players so much..
Yup, that's why I said most. The Marlies on the other hand get less than 2,000 per game in the biggest market in the country. Two of three Toronto area OHL teams get less than 3,000 a game. Kitchener and London are in their own league, then again, they are the only show in town.

The KHL has been hit hard by the steep drop in oil prices. It's all about sponsorship there. For the majority of the teams, they are never going to make money, they are a status symbol for the owners and sponsors. When the sponsors get hurt, the teams suffer. Riga is probably the only team in the league that is run like a real business.

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02-26-2009, 03:24 PM
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Here's a better break down of attendance from DR website:

http://www.dinamoriga.eu/ru/news/view/596

So, the top home attendances are
АO: 9486
Loko: 8982
SU: 8228
Amur: 7100
Sibir: 6481
DynR: 6704
SKA: 6508
Atlant: 6208
AB: 5881
Torpedo: 5408
DynMos: 4693

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02-26-2009, 03:26 PM
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And here's the budgets

http://www.dinamoriga.eu/en/news/vie...clubs-revealed

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02-26-2009, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by v-man View Post
Yup, that's why I said most. The Marlies on the other hand get less than 2,000 per game in the biggest market in the country. Two of three Toronto area OHL teams get less than 3,000 a game. Kitchener and London are in their own league, then again, they are the only show in town.

The KHL has been hit hard by the steep drop in oil prices. It's all about sponsorship there. For the majority of the teams, they are never going to make money, they are a status symbol for the owners and sponsors. When the sponsors get hurt, the teams suffer. Riga is probably the only team in the league that is run like a real business.
That's because believe it or not, Toronto isn't that great of a hockey town.

Your argument really doesn't work because I think an 20 NHL teams in Canada would vastly outdraw 20 junior teams. And for what it's worth, I'm pretty sure the top 24 junior teams attendance-wise in Canada draw a lot better than the 24 KHL teams.

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02-26-2009, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by CF View Post
That's because believe it or not, Toronto isn't that great of a hockey town.

Your argument really doesn't work because I think an 20 NHL teams in Canada would vastly outdraw 20 junior teams. And for what it's worth, I'm pretty sure the top 24 junior teams attendance-wise in Canada draw a lot better than the 24 KHL teams.
Canada doesn't even have 20 markets big enough to have AHL, let alone NHL teams. Remember, Junior tickets are a lot cheaper than NHL/ pro tickets. Junior players make $50 a week. KHL players make on average double the average AHL salary. KHL type teams would require much higher ticket prices to cover salaries, which would in turn greatly reduce attendance.

But I agree, Toronto is definitely not a hockey town.

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02-26-2009, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by v-man View Post
Canada doesn't even have 20 markets big enough to have AHL, let alone NHL teams. Remember, Junior tickets are a lot cheaper than NHL/ pro tickets. Junior players make $50 a week. KHL players make on average double the average AHL salary. KHL type teams would require much higher ticket prices to cover salaries, which would in turn greatly reduce attendance.

But I agree, Toronto is definitely not a hockey town.
I understand that Canada doesn't have 20 markets big enough for the NHL, you were the one that brought it up...

How much do AHL tickets cost?

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02-26-2009, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Den View Post
Top KHL teams gather 8-10 thnd at the home games....



What's the relation? Attendance is bad in Moscow, St. Pete because those are soccer cities. In hockey towns it is limited by the arena capacity.
I meant more than "average" KHL attendance which has got to be around 5,000. The AHL doesn't pay it's players like the KHL does, that was the relation I was trying to make. If the KHL and AHL receive comparable attendances, that cannot be good.

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02-26-2009, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v-man View Post
But I agree, Toronto is definitely not a hockey town.
Are you joking? From what I've heard, you can't even get leafs season tickets unless you buy raptors ones first. They have their own TV station. Toronto is huge for hockey, everyone is just nuts for the leafs. The marlies just get over shadowed by the leafs... People just don't really care about lower level hockey in the big city. The more successful AHL venues are places farthest from NHL locations anyways.

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02-26-2009, 06:59 PM
  #25
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Originally Posted by malkinfan View Post
Are you joking? From what I've heard, you can't even get leafs season tickets unless you buy raptors ones first. They have their own TV station. Toronto is huge for hockey, everyone is just nuts for the leafs. The marlies just get over shadowed by the leafs... People just don't really care about lower level hockey in the big city. The more successful AHL venues are places farthest from NHL locations anyways.
Toronto is a great NHL market. I won't take it much further than that.

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