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All Encompassing Tanking/Rebuilding/Selling at Deadline Thread 3.0

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Old
12-21-2013, 02:05 PM
  #76
LyricalLyricist
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Why are we discussing tanking?

Not sure if people realize this but even if you 'sell' and still make the playoffs players(UFA and internal) don't feel like staying with an organization that has a "we have no faith in our team" mentality. Selling when you're 9th in conference is iffy. Seeing when you're in a playoff spot as high as ours is basically winning culture suicide.

Guys like gionta will be gone in due time and even then the guy isn't that bad. He's 3rd in points for forwards while playing tough competition. He's obviously an asset(not one I'd re-sign but still).

Again, why are we discussing selling? NHL 14 is made for this stuff. Players on the team mind if you sell when they are in a spot.

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12-21-2013, 02:08 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Gauthier started moving guys around for picks when he felt the team was a lost case, that's tanking.
Sort of. Moving Cammalieri was not really a tank move imo, it was a desperate move. Gauthier was forced to do something because Cammy was becoming a huge distraction to the team. I can't remember any other big moves that year besides one of Gauthier's dumbest, moving Spacek, who's contract was up at the end of the year, for Kaberle, who was equally bad but another 2 years left.

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12-21-2013, 02:14 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Why are we discussing tanking?

Not sure if people realize this but even if you 'sell' and still make the playoffs players(UFA and internal) don't feel like staying with an organization that has a "we have no faith in our team" mentality. Selling when you're 9th in conference is iffy. Seeing when you're in a playoff spot as high as ours is basically winning culture suicide.

Guys like gionta will be gone in due time and even then the guy isn't that bad. He's 3rd in points for forwards while playing tough competition. He's obviously an asset(not one I'd re-sign but still).

Again, why are we discussing selling? NHL 14 is made for this stuff. Players on the team mind if you sell when they are in a spot.
I sincerely doubt anyone of note will be traded for picks this year, as long as we are in contention. I would have liked it if Gionta were moved at some point, but i highly doubt it.

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12-21-2013, 02:21 PM
  #79
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huh, that sure isnt an argument...

it could always be worse. Hey! it could be worse we could have signed DD for 5 years or Briere for 3! you know...
The point was to show he realized a tank was in order (better late than never).

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12-21-2013, 02:30 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Markowicz View Post
Sort of. Moving Cammalieri was not really a tank move imo, it was a desperate move. Gauthier was forced to do something because Cammy was becoming a huge distraction to the team. I can't remember any other big moves that year besides one of Gauthier's dumbest, moving Spacek, who's contract was up at the end of the year, for Kaberle, who was equally bad but another 2 years left.
Gauthier tried to salvage the season early on. He fired Pearn as sort of a warning sign (Don't see any other reason why he would have been let go) to Martin. He went for Kaberle after doctors got it wrong with Markov. After a while he fired Martin, and it went downhill from there.
Cammalleri was moved for Bourque, Holland and picks. It added a bigger body to our club, gave us a prospect and 2nd round pick. I viewed this as a rebuild move.
Then we moved AK and Gill. We were tanking, there's no question about it.

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12-21-2013, 02:33 PM
  #81
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I just want us to be a good team, moving the veterans who obviously haven't gotten it done for either young players or "fresh" vets is something I'd be happy doing. Two seasons ago, this was a team of losers (per Cammy) and I don't see the current roster being much different from that one (apart from our young players).

I'd take a chance on Stastny as a UFA instead of getting the same old (though valuable) production from Plekanec. We could get an awesome return for a guy with Plekanec's skill set at the deadline.

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12-21-2013, 02:53 PM
  #82
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I just want us to be a good team, moving the veterans who obviously haven't gotten it done for either young players or "fresh" vets is something I'd be happy doing. Two seasons ago, this was a team of losers (per Cammy) and I don't see the current roster being much different from that one (apart from our young players).

I'd take a chance on Stastny as a UFA instead of getting the same old (though valuable) production from Plekanec. We could get an awesome return for a guy with Plekanec's skill set at the deadline.
The only problem with that is we'd have to give Stastny around Scott Gomez type money to basically give us Plekanec production. Plus there is no guarantee he wants to come here, though he is a Quebec native.

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12-21-2013, 05:44 PM
  #83
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The only problem with that is we'd have to give Stastny around Scott Gomez type money to basically give us Plekanec production. Plus there is no guarantee he wants to come here, though he is a Quebec native.
Do you think he's going to be paid much more than he is now? I think 6.6mil (current deal) is a decent estimate, even with the new cap. If we pay him that, I'm ok with it as he's still got offensive upside even if he's not a #1C. He'd be an awesome mentor and line mate for Galchenyuk IMO.

Even if we can't/don't sign a replacement, I think trading Plekanec to spread out our offence is a good idea. A Plekanec-level player on the wing or a an equivalent prospect would much better suit how our team is currently structured with Galchenyuk-Eller-Desharnais-Briere-Bournival all signed through next year. Maximize these assets!

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12-21-2013, 05:57 PM
  #84
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Statsny is also my pick for this offseason if we get rid of DD of course...

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12-21-2013, 06:01 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by galchenyuktocollberg View Post
Statsny is also my pick for this offseason if we get rid of DD of course...
Stastny will likely be paid about twice as much as DD, I don't think that will work contract-wise.

Stastny
Eller
Galchenyuk

That would be an awesome centre group for the next 5 years.

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12-21-2013, 06:04 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Draft View Post
Stastny will likely be paid about twice as much as DD, I don't think that will work contract-wise.

Stastny
Eller
Galchenyuk

That would be an awesome centre group for the next 5 years.
Why not just keep Plekanec?

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12-21-2013, 06:42 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Why not just keep Plekanec?
A very great idea considering, at least from a lifelong Hab fan he fits the unassuming leader position more than any at this time. Like Jacques Lemaire did in the 70's, he's the defensive conscience and when necessary scores the inspirational goal. Bad idea to trade Tomas IMHO.

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12-21-2013, 06:46 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Why not just keep Plekanec?
You dont win with powderpuff guys like plekanec.

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12-21-2013, 06:54 PM
  #89
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You dont win with powderpuff guys like plekanec.
Just stop.

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12-21-2013, 06:56 PM
  #90
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Just stop.
We tried the soff small and "skill" players, total failure. Time to try something else.

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12-21-2013, 06:58 PM
  #91
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We tried the soff small and "skill" players, total failure. Time to try something else.
Except Plekanec is not one of those players. He's not the problem.

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12-21-2013, 07:00 PM
  #92
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A very great idea considering, at least from a lifelong Hab fan he fits the unassuming leader position more than any at this time. Like Jacques Lemaire did in the 70's, he's the defensive conscience and when necessary scores the inspirational goal. Bad idea to trade Tomas IMHO.
As always it's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of fight in the dog. A measure not lost in the annals of Hab lore.

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12-21-2013, 07:02 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by S Bah View Post
A very great idea considering, at least from a lifelong Hab fan he fits the unassuming leader position more than any at this time. Like Jacques Lemaire did in the 70's, he's the defensive conscience and when necessary scores the inspirational goal. Bad idea to trade Tomas IMHO.
Yah there's no reason to trade him, especially to gain a similar impact player. Seems...lateral at best.

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You dont win with powderpuff guys like plekanec.
As opposed to Stastny??

They are pretty similar. No point in changing everything for similar player getting more money.

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12-21-2013, 07:21 PM
  #94
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We can get a great return and sign Stastny for nothing. So Stastny (27 with upside) and blue chip prospect or just Plekanec?

It's got nothing to do with how good or bad Plekanec is, he's just a depreciating asset.

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12-21-2013, 07:24 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Draft View Post
We can get a great return and sign Stastny for nothing. So Stastny (27 with upside) and blue chip prospect or just Plekanec?

It's got nothing to do with how good or bad Plekanec is, he's just a depreciating asset.
Stastny hasn't exactly improved since his first few years.

I get what you're saying but Stastny won't get 5 mil per year...

You'll overpay for no reason, change chemistry and take a risk just to get a prospect?

I get it's a blue chipper but rather stand pat.

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12-21-2013, 07:37 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Stastny hasn't exactly improved since his first few years.

I get what you're saying but Stastny won't get 5 mil per year...

You'll overpay for no reason, change chemistry and take a risk just to get a prospect?

I get it's a blue chipper but rather stand pat.
Isn't that better than what we have now? I get that it would be a risk but there's also huge potential for it to be an awesome move. Stastny could be the next Steen and that blue chip prospect could turn into a blue chip player. We know what we have with Plekanec and there's no chance he'll be getting better.

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12-21-2013, 07:53 PM
  #97
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Isn't that better than what we have now? I get that it would be a risk but there's also huge potential for it to be an awesome move. Stastny could be the next Steen and that blue chip prospect could turn into a blue chip player. We know what we have with Plekanec and there's no chance he'll be getting better.
I'd be curious to know who would give us a blueship prospect ?

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12-21-2013, 08:03 PM
  #98
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Isn't that better than what we have now? I get that it would be a risk but there's also huge potential for it to be an awesome move. Stastny could be the next Steen and that blue chip prospect could turn into a blue chip player. We know what we have with Plekanec and there's no chance he'll be getting better.
Why would stastny be the next steen? Steen made nothing. Stastny would command more on the open market than Plekanec currently makes.

I understand the logic of trying to maximize assets but I don't understand how an overpaid Stastny will break out but Plekanec is someone who will never ever improve.

There's a chance Stastny doesn't fit too.

Clarkson improved over his career, seems to be working for the leafs...

As for the prospect, it's basically 1-1.5 mil more cap for a player who might or might not fit and we get a prospect while trading a lifelong hab who has been the definition of a professional here in montreal.

It's not that I don't like Stastny but I don't see it as an improvement. A blue chip prospect just means he is a prospect who will have a good chance of making NHL. You will not get a blue chip 1st line prospect. That's basically a top 3 draft pick.

Not to mention, teams that desperate would just sign Stastny themselves...

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12-21-2013, 08:11 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
I'd be curious to know who would give us a blueship prospect ?
A team that needs a veteran two-way centre? Edmonton, Minnesota, St.Louis, Anaheim, Winnipeg, and Nashville could all use Plekanec. It doesn't have to be a blue-chip prospect, it just needs to be a return. It could be a Plekanec-level winger, high picks, or even a collection of these.

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12-21-2013, 08:13 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Draft View Post
A team that needs a veteran two-way centre? Edmonton, Minnesota, St.Louis, Anaheim, Winnipeg, and Nashville could all use Plekanec. It doesn't have to be a blue-chip prospect, it just needs to be a return. It could be a Plekanec-level winger, high picks, or even a collection of these.
huh... going from blueship prospect to "a return" ? really ?

but anyway, the question wasnt who could use #14, every team does anyway... but who'd be willing to give a blueship prospect for him ?

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