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All Encompassing Tanking/Rebuilding/Selling at Deadline Thread 3.0

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Old
12-21-2013, 07:16 PM
  #101
Monctonscout
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Originally Posted by Draft View Post
Do you think he's going to be paid much more than he is now? I think 6.6mil (current deal) is a decent estimate, even with the new cap. If we pay him that, I'm ok with it as he's still got offensive upside even if he's not a #1C. He'd be an awesome mentor and line mate for Galchenyuk IMO.

Even if we can't/don't sign a replacement, I think trading Plekanec to spread out our offence is a good idea. A Plekanec-level player on the wing or a an equivalent prospect would much better suit how our team is currently structured with Galchenyuk-Eller-Desharnais-Briere-Bournival all signed through next year. Maximize these assets!
If Stastnuy hits the UFA market, with the way good players have been getting huge money(as few of them actually get there), I would guess Stastny will get 5-7 years at around 7 mil from a team desperate for center help.

I think trading Plekanec at this point is a big step backwards unless you are getting a better center on a similarly good deal(Ex:stud #1 at around 6.5-7mil). He is still young enough to be part of a run in 1.5-2 years plus he's on a good contract.

It's harder to find good centers than good wingers. I would use other assets or cap space to go get help on the wings.

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12-21-2013, 07:29 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Why would stastny be the next steen? Steen made nothing. Stastny would command more on the open market than Plekanec currently makes.

I understand the logic of trying to maximize assets but I don't understand how an overpaid Stastny will break out but Plekanec is someone who will never ever improve.

There's a chance Stastny doesn't fit too.

Clarkson improved over his career, seems to be working for the leafs...

As for the prospect, it's basically 1-1.5 mil more cap for a player who might or might not fit and we get a prospect while trading a lifelong hab who has been the definition of a professional here in montreal.

It's not that I don't like Stastny but I don't see it as an improvement. A blue chip prospect just means he is a prospect who will have a good chance of making NHL. You will not get a blue chip 1st line prospect. That's basically a top 3 draft pick.

Not to mention, teams that desperate would just sign Stastny themselves...
Stastny is entering his prime, Plekanec is already on the other side. That's why Stastny could potentially break out and Plekanec won't improve.

Let's fast forward four years....

Would you rather have Stastny at 7mil (Cap @ 75mil+) and another NHL player who have produced for those four years....

or

Plekanec consistently getting worse as he gets older for the last two years of his contract and have no impact in the the 3rd and 4th year?

Is Plekanec going to help win us the Cup in the next two years? I don't think so. That's his window with our team. He's done nothing but his job (which I'm thankful for) during his career in the organization, we don't need to make it any more than that.

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12-21-2013, 07:33 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
huh... going from blueship prospect to "a return" ? really ?

but anyway, the question wasnt who could use #14, every team does anyway... but who'd be willing to give a blueship prospect for him ?
You and your inability to understand concepts. It never gets old!

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12-21-2013, 07:36 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draft View Post
Stastny is entering his prime, Plekanec is already on the other side. That's why Stastny could potentially break out and Plekanec won't improve.

Let's fast forward four years....

Would you rather have Stastny at 7mil (Cap @ 75mil+) and another NHL player who have produced for those four years....

or

Plekanec consistently getting worse as he gets older for the last two years of his contract and have no impact in the the 3rd and 4th year?

Is Plekanec going to help win us the Cup in the next two years? I don't think so. That's his window with our team. He's done nothing but his job (which I'm thankful for) during his career in the organization, we don't need to make it any more than that.
I don't want Stastny at 7 mil. 6 I understand but 7? meh. Besides, UFA market means long term contract that will hurt us later. Plekanec's contract is reasonable. I'd argue long term this is the BETTER solution.

Pleky has been better than Stastny last few years. Also, forwards don't hit their prime at 28. Forwards are peaking way earlier in the new NHL.

Like I said, Stastny will get price AND term. The term will screw us.

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12-21-2013, 07:37 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draft View Post
You and your inability to understand concepts. It never gets old!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draft View Post
A team that needs a veteran two-way centre? Edmonton, Minnesota, St.Louis, Anaheim, Winnipeg, and Nashville could all use Plekanec. It doesn't have to be a blue-chip prospect, it just needs to be a return. It could be a Plekanec-level winger, high picks, or even a collection of these.
yeah sure


I'm not match when it comes to dodging questions though =)

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12-21-2013, 07:44 PM
  #106
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Our tanking Window ended when Galchenyuk and Gallagher made the team.

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Old
12-21-2013, 07:50 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I don't want Stastny at 7 mil. 6 I understand but 7? meh. Besides, UFA market means long term contract that will hurt us later. Plekanec's contract is reasonable. I'd argue long term this is the BETTER solution.

Pleky has been better than Stastny last few years. Also, forwards don't hit their prime at 28. Forwards are peaking way earlier in the new NHL.

Like I said, Stastny will get price AND term. The term will screw us.
I'm just giving the upper limit of what I think he'll make, we could see it lower than that too. I think we can comfortably say, without getting into detail, Stastny and Plekanec are pretty similar in value and production. So in two years, with the way the cap is going, would 7mil for a 29yo Plekanec be that crazy? I really don't think so as 6.5-7mil through the next five years is quite similar to the deal Plekanec signed at a similar age. In the short term, the contract might be a little tough but I don't think it would affect us long term.

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12-21-2013, 07:53 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Draft View Post
I'm just giving the upper limit of what I think he'll make, we could see it lower than that too. I think we can comfortably say, without getting into detail, Stastny and Plekanec are pretty similar in value and production. So in two years, with the way the cap is going, would 7mil for a 29yo Plekanec be that crazy? I really don't think so as 6.5-7mil through the next five years is quite similar to the deal Plekanec signed at a similar age. In the short term, the contract might be a little tough but I don't think it would affect us long term.
But we're talking long term here and long term I feel a Stastny UFA type contract will bite us in the ass.

Besides, I agree they are similar impact but I'd rather save the cash and term and sign someone else with the savings. it's only 1-2 mil but in 5 years when Stastny regresses it becomes a lot more savings just to keep Pleky at a newer and much lower rate.

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12-21-2013, 07:55 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
But we're talking long term here and long term I feel a Stastny UFA type contract will bite us in the ass.

Besides, I agree they are similar impact but I'd rather save the cash and term and sign someone else with the savings. it's only 1-2 mil but in 5 years when Stastny regresses it becomes a lot more savings just to keep Pleky at a newer and much lower rate.
that, and at some point we have to expect that Galchenyuk would be ready for 1st line C duties, giving us a Galchenyuk / Eller combo for our top 6 C...

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12-21-2013, 08:01 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
that, and at some point we have to expect that Galchenyuk would be ready for 1st line C duties, giving us a Galchenyuk / Eller combo for our top 6 C...
Eller as our #3 please.

Galchenyuk
Plekanec
Eller

Is what I'd do.

When Plekanec regresses to below Eller, we'll have a problem. When the time comes we'll replace Pleky.

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Old
12-29-2013, 09:53 PM
  #111
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At the deadline should we consider trading markov and gionta? Markov could get a good return gionta may get a late first aswell. I know a lot of people may be against it but it would probably be the best thing for the long term plan MB has.

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12-29-2013, 10:26 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by galchenyuktocollberg View Post
At the deadline should we consider trading markov and gionta? Markov could get a good return gionta may get a late first aswell. I know a lot of people may be against it but it would probably be the best thing for the long term plan MB has.
Markov is worth a top-15 and Gionta is worth a 20th-30th pick.
Unless we are offered a proper deal, trading them is not good.

I am just looking at what was offered for Clowe and all.

But I do not think that Markov will be on the trading block as Habs management as already said they want to keep him.
Giontat may be traded but he is the captain: won't happen.

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12-29-2013, 10:53 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by galchenyuktocollberg View Post
At the deadline should we consider trading markov and gionta? Markov could get a good return gionta may get a late first aswell. I know a lot of people may be against it but it would probably be the best thing for the long term plan MB has.
Why?

Trading markov would add a good asset, but only one that will contribute in 4-5 years while his loss leaves a gaping hole on defense.

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12-29-2013, 11:09 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by galchenyuktocollberg View Post
At the deadline should we consider trading markov and gionta? Markov could get a good return gionta may get a late first aswell. I know a lot of people may be against it but it would probably be the best thing for the long term plan MB has.
If there's a deal that can help us in the next year or 2 I'd have the for sale sign on any UFA or non-core asset, the current squad is not a contender

Bet Vegas wouldn't even change our odds if we dealt Gionta, Bourque, Briere, Diaz, Murray, Markov, Boullion, Moen and White

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12-29-2013, 11:34 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Our tanking Window ended when Galchenyuk and Gallagher made the team.
And became consolidated when Price started to play like we knew he was capable.

We're going to be a mid-pack team that is going to have to draft better than most other teams, despite not garnering the early picks that usually help reduce your margin of error quite significantly. Essentially, we can build through the draft but we can't do it with the draft alone. We need the sharpest player procurement minds in the business -- don't know yet if we have them or if we have enough of them.

This is one area where Geoff should open his wallet and just hire the best with impunity.

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