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David Desharnais Discussion Part II: The 'Stay on your Feet' Edition

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Old
05-05-2013, 09:30 AM
  #376
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Maybe, I guess. Wellwood has had some pretty bad seasons. Desharnais got ripped for a 48-point season this year (pace obviously), Wellwood had multiple seasons where he scored as many points as Desharnais actually scored this year in nearly half the games.

Desharnais is not great defensively, but he works a lot harder than Wellwood.

To be fair, Wellwood had a good season last year, so he probably thinks he can take a couple years off before his spot is in jeopardy again.

Wellwood reminds me more of a less talented Alexandre Daigle.

Desharnais reminds me more of a offensively more talented Niklas Sundstrom.


Last edited by Bad Natey: 05-05-2013 at 09:47 AM.
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05-05-2013, 09:37 AM
  #377
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Originally Posted by Hawkguy View Post
Desharnais is not great defensively, but he works a lot harder than Wellwood.


Oh my God, blessings be upon David Desharnais, he ***tries***, let's give him an "A" for effort, because he works hard.

I look forward to the day where we can stop treating hockey players as six year olds, where we evaluate them on how hard they try, and instead we treat them as adults, where we only evaluate them on performance.

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05-05-2013, 09:45 AM
  #378
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post


Oh my God, blessings be upon David Desharnais, he ***tries***, let's give him an "A" for effort, because he works hard.

I look forward to the day where we can stop treating hockey players as six year olds, where we evaluate them on how hard they try, and instead we treat them as adults, where we only evaluate them on performance.
Well, maybe if you could read between the lines, you'd realize what it meant rather than making a completely ridiculous statement. <- See I can do that too!

Desharnais tries harder which already makes him better because he causes more problems for offensive players than Wellwood. Wellwood doesn't even play defense (well to be fair, he tries more now than he did when he first entered the league). Desharnais is fairly good position-wise, but its his strength that causes him problems.

He's actually made a few decent defensive plays in the playoffs so far, he's been a lot more responsible. Still needs some more work because he needs to stop trying to steal the puck in open ice with his stick and try to take the body more, but the work ethic is there to improve.

He's better this year than he was last year defensively, although that's not saying much.

Basically, it comes down to Wellwood is bad defensively and doesn't care.

Desharnais is mediocre defensively but is an annoying pest, but one that's too easy to brush off.


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05-05-2013, 09:51 AM
  #379
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Maybe, I guess. Wellwood has had some pretty bad seasons. Desharnais got ripped for a 48-point season this year (pace obviously), Wellwood had multiple seasons where he scored as many points as Desharnais actually scored this year in nearly half the games.

Desharnais is not great defensively, but he works a lot harder than Wellwood. Desharnais is also a center which is much more valuable than Wellwood.

To be fair, Wellwood had a good season last year, so he probably thinks he can take a couple years off before his spot is in jeopardy again.

Wellwood reminds me more of a less talented Alexandre Daigle.

Desharnais reminds me more of a more talented Niklas Sundstrom.
I think that's that's simplifying it way too much. I think it's got a lot to do with role on the team.

Wellwood doesn't always get the same sheltered 2nd line minutes + good linemates he got last season. In Vancouver he was a 3rd liner with weak linemates. Last season was the first time since his Toronto days he was given that 2nd liner role.

Wellwood
2012/2013: 12:58 TOI/game | 1.67 5on5 pts/60 | -0.687 Corsi Rel QoT
2011/2012: 14:57 TOI/game | 2.15 5on5 pts/60 | 2.146 Corsi Rel QoT
2009/2010: 13:51 TOI/game | 1.09 5on5 pts/60 | -2.880 Corsi Rel QoT
2008/2009: 13:47 TOI/game | 1.30 5on5 pts/60 | -2.546 Corsi Rel QoT

Desharnais
2012/2013: 16:27 TOI/game | 2.04 5on5 pts/60 | 6.343 Corsi Rel QoT
2011/2012: 18:23 TOI/game | 1.97 5on5 pts/60 | 4.116 Corsi Rel QoT
2010/2011: 12:52 TOI/game | 1.74 5on5 pts/60 | 2.293 Corsi Rel QoT

I think if DD gets same linemates as Wellwood he'd produce similar.

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05-05-2013, 09:57 AM
  #380
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
I think that's that's simplifying it way too much. I think it's got a lot to do with role on the team.

Wellwood doesn't always get the same sheltered 2nd line minutes + good linemates he got last season. In Vancouver he was a 3rd liner with weak linemates. Last season was the first time since his Toronto days he was given that 2nd liner role.

Wellwood
2012/2013: 12:58 TOI/game | 1.67 5on5 pts/60 | -0.687 Corsi Rel QoT
2011/2012: 14:57 TOI/game | 2.15 5on5 pts/60 | 2.146 Corsi Rel QoT
2009/2010: 13:51 TOI/game | 1.09 5on5 pts/60 | -2.880 Corsi Rel QoT
2008/2009: 13:47 TOI/game | 1.30 5on5 pts/60 | -2.546 Corsi Rel QoT

Desharnais
2012/2013: 16:27 TOI/game | 2.04 5on5 pts/60 | 6.343 Corsi Rel QoT
2011/2012: 18:23 TOI/game | 1.97 5on5 pts/60 | 4.116 Corsi Rel QoT
2010/2011: 12:52 TOI/game | 1.74 5on5 pts/60 | 2.293 Corsi Rel QoT
Funny enough, the best I saw Wellwood was about 1/4 through his time in Vancouver. Something motivated him there and he played really well.

Maybe it was the coaching, maybe it was the clearly defined role - I'm not sure. But I didn't hate him on the Canucks (watch a lot of Canucks games since they are my #2 team).

I'll be honest in the fact that I only saw him a few times last year, so maybe he's kept his defensive acumen he got in Vancouver, but I have a couple Sharks fans who hated him after he was in Vancouver.

I need to stop sticking up for DD thought, he does need to produce more and shoot more. He's got to adapt - I definitely don't think he's done progressing though.

I just get so sick of scapegoats around here. Guys like Desharnais, Gionta, Moen, and even Armstrong (even Price to a lesser extent) can play a good game and still get **** on because that's the "norm."

I don't see how trading Desharnais for guys like Brian Boyle improves the team. I don't see how waiving him (wtf?) makes us a better team.

I'm all for trading him if he makes sense for the team. Those moves don't make sense. I'd even trade my favourite player, Josh Gorges, if it made sense for the team. I love the logo on the front a lot more than the name on the back.

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05-05-2013, 10:23 AM
  #381
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Originally Posted by Hawkguy View Post
Funny enough, the best I saw Wellwood was about 1/4 through his time in Vancouver. Something motivated him there and he played really well.

Maybe it was the coaching, maybe it was the clearly defined role - I'm not sure. But I didn't hate him on the Canucks (watch a lot of Canucks games since they are my #2 team).

I'll be honest in the fact that I only saw him a few times last year, so maybe he's kept his defensive acumen he got in Vancouver, but I have a couple Sharks fans who hated him after he was in Vancouver.

I need to stop sticking up for DD thought, he does need to produce more and shoot more. He's got to adapt - I definitely don't think he's done progressing though.

I just get so sick of scapegoats around here. Guys like Desharnais, Gionta, Moen, and even Armstrong (even Price to a lesser extent) can play a good game and still get **** on because that's the "norm."

I don't see how trading Desharnais for guys like Brian Boyle improves the team. I don't see how waiving him (wtf?) makes us a better team.

I'm all for trading him if he makes sense for the team. Those moves don't make sense. I'd even trade my favourite player, Josh Gorges, if it made sense for the team. I love the logo on the front a lot more than the name on the back.
I disagree since he's been producing similarly to last season (2.04 5on5 pts/60 vs 1.97 5on5 pts/60) getting the best offensive linemates. He might progress defensively and perhaps find a way to gain enough of the coach's trust to think he can produce without the best offensive linemates but in terms of overall points, 60 might end up being a total he'll never come close to again. With Plekanec/Galchenyuk/Eller I don't he'll ever get the same icetime he did in 11/12.

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05-05-2013, 11:23 AM
  #382
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
I disagree since he's been producing similarly to last season (2.04 5on5 pts/60 vs 1.97 5on5 pts/60) getting the best offensive linemates. He might progress defensively and perhaps find a way to gain enough of the coach's trust to think he can produce without the best offensive linemates but in terms of overall points, 60 might end up being a total he'll never come close to again. With Plekanec/Galchenyuk/Eller I don't he'll ever get the same icetime he did in 11/12.
If he can improve his defensive game, a 45-50 point center is more than enough value for a 3rd liner. Although that's not his roof to me. It's not uncommon for players to improve after a couple seasons.

As much as I'd love to see Galchenyuk stay at center, I never want to see him and Eller split apart either, so it's a hard decision.

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05-05-2013, 11:29 AM
  #383
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I just get so sick of scapegoats around here. Guys like Desharnais, Gionta, Moen, and even Armstrong (even Price to a lesser extent) can play a good game and still get **** on because that's the "norm."
It's because we have eyes. Clearly Gionta and DD and Moen and even Armstrong were underperforming.

On the ice salary doesn't matter whatsoever - Gionta ruining play after play, killing any momentum Pleks and Bourque could muster up IS BAD. Desharnais playing with our best winger, getting tons of PP time and still not producing is BAD. Seeing DD give up on a board battle, lose faceoff after faceoff, avoid contact is BAD.

I get what you try to do and we agree with each other most of the time these days but most criticism (mine anyway) isn't just because I don't like smurfs. It's because they PLAY LIKE SMURFS. I don't care Gionta had 14 goals, with how he played, the time he got and the plays he butchered he could've had 30.

Desharnais, Gionta and Bouillon are the three worst performers on this team relative to their use - PP time, best linemates, etc. Moen had a bad year, and Ryder disappeared over the stretch but Gio and DD getting all that time and doing nothing with it kills me.

We're saddled with lazy so-and-so for FOUR MORE YEARS because of Bergevin. It's just the perfect storm of hate: he's non-physical, he's not good defensively or as a centre, he's not producing, he's extended for 4 years, he's small as hell, and now, he's playing lazy and avoiding the dirty areas. He brings NOTHING to the table and he gets to monopolize our best winger. It's brutal to watch.

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05-05-2013, 11:41 AM
  #384
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
It's because we have eyes. Clearly Gionta and DD and Moen and even Armstrong were underperforming.

On the ice salary doesn't matter whatsoever - Gionta ruining play after play, killing any momentum Pleks and Bourque could muster up IS BAD. Desharnais playing with our best winger, getting tons of PP time and still not producing is BAD. Seeing DD give up on a board battle, lose faceoff after faceoff, avoid contact is BAD.

I get what you try to do and we agree with each other most of the time these days but most criticism (mine anyway) isn't just because I don't like smurfs. It's because they PLAY LIKE SMURFS. I don't care Gionta had 14 goals, with how he played, the time he got and the plays he butchered he could've had 30.

Desharnais, Gionta and Bouillon are the three worst performers on this team relative to their use - PP time, best linemates, etc. Moen had a bad year, and Ryder disappeared over the stretch but Gio and DD getting all that time and doing nothing with it kills me.

We're saddled with lazy so-and-so for FOUR MORE YEARS because of Bergevin. It's just the perfect storm of hate: he's non-physical, he's not good defensively or as a centre, he's not producing, he's extended for 4 years, he's small as hell, and now, he's playing lazy and avoiding the dirty areas. He brings NOTHING to the table and he gets to monopolize our best winger. It's brutal to watch.
I don't think he plays lazy, but that's just me. He's struggled a lot this year, so its definitely hurting him but like Price, he has the ability to step up, and he has at times.

I've said many times that him and Pacioretty began relying on old tricks, not the actual reasons the line was producing originally (driving the net, causing a ruckus). They need to be split up long-term, IMO.

Losing faceoff after faceoff is completely ridiculous. Maybe that was true at the start of the season when he was like 41% after 10 games, but that means over the next 40 games, he's killing it. He finished the season with a 50% faceoff rate, and since he gets a lot of PP time, you'd think he faces some oft he better faceoff guys in the league. Strangely enough, he wins the PP faceoffs and loses the ES ones. Odd.

I don't mind players getting called out when they perform poorly. It's when they play well that it's their fault. Or when a goal happens against and it's always their fault. Bouillon, who had the second highest +/- on the team among defenseman, was on the ice for 38 goals this season. Reading GDT's, every one of those 38 goals were his fault. A fan-favourite like Eller or Gallagher (I love both of them) are never at fault, ever. It's a bit ridiculous. Eller was definitely better than Desharnais this season, don't think I'm trying to say he wasn't - that's crazy.

I'm just so sick of the scapegoat thing, I guess - although it's usually from the same few posters, so maybe I should just brush by it. Guys like Desharnais definitely deserve more blame than others, but nowhere near the amount they get.

The only scapegoat I was okay with was Gomez - and that's was mostly not his fault. The trade was terrible, the contract was terrible, and the production was terrible - and his stupid penalties. No one on this team could skate the puck into the zone like him though - that's something we severely lack from our forwards.

PS. If Gionta had 30 goals in a 48-game season, he'd be paid $8M per year. He'd have been second in the freaking league. That's pretty ridiculous over-expectations.

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05-05-2013, 07:40 PM
  #385
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Another absolutely pathetic game from him so far.

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05-05-2013, 07:45 PM
  #386
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What are MB's options with DD at this point?

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05-05-2013, 07:50 PM
  #387
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@Dave_Stubbs: #Habs Desharnais still without a shot this series

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05-05-2013, 07:52 PM
  #388
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Desharnais is useless out there.

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05-05-2013, 08:00 PM
  #389
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4 more years, guys. Still think that contract is "manageable"?

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05-05-2013, 08:00 PM
  #390
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So is anyone still a fan of Desharnais at center? I got ripped for initially dissing this kid last season. He was always small and one-dimensional. When NHL players figured him out, he was done.

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05-05-2013, 08:02 PM
  #391
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Has he met doc guimond yet? he should....

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05-05-2013, 08:03 PM
  #392
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So is anyone still a fan of Desharnais at center? I got ripped for initially dissing this kid last season. He was always small and one-dimensional. When NHL players figured him out, he was done.
I was right there with you man. The endless debates I had with people saying he was better than Eller and Pleks. If only I could up those posts.

How in the world did he get that contract? HOW did Bergy not see this?

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05-05-2013, 08:05 PM
  #393
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He's gonna score in the third.

(I don't like him btw.)

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05-05-2013, 08:30 PM
  #394
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He's gonna score in the third.

(I don't like him btw.)
How's that prediction working out for ya?

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05-05-2013, 08:52 PM
  #395
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I hope he's a healthy scratch. Guy ****ing sucks.

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05-05-2013, 08:53 PM
  #396
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Now that Eller is out, there is nowhere to hide Desharnais. DD is garbage... enough with this smurf. Time to ship him out.

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05-05-2013, 09:13 PM
  #397
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Brian Gionta and David Desharnais (if this is the REAL DD) are NOT top 6 players in the NHL. Gionta once was, but not anymore.

Desharnais has been terrible. Unless it comes out that he's been playing injured since the lockout ended, well, it's completely ****ing unacceptable. Guy is HORRIBLE.

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05-05-2013, 09:20 PM
  #398
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Brian Gionta and David Desharnais (if this is the REAL DD) are NOT top 6 players in the NHL. Gionta once was, but not anymore.

Desharnais has been terrible. Unless it comes out that he's been playing injured since the lockout ended, well, it's completely ****ing unacceptable. Guy is HORRIBLE.
Dude if DD was injured and Bergevin extended him mid-season Bergevin is liable to getting fired... like yesterday.

Depending on how our little playoff story ends, I'm not too sure Bergevin is going to look so good coming out of it. Desharnais is a big, big little tuurd.

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05-05-2013, 09:21 PM
  #399
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Terrible game tonight. No way to sugarcoat it.

I still can't wrap my head around him having a good Game 2, then Pacioretty going right back on his wing. It's not working Michel, stop ****ing doing it. Their 3 year chemistry is gone and it's not coming back this season. Get over it. ****.

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05-05-2013, 09:22 PM
  #400
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I hope DD is the first player ever to be buy-out even before his new contract kicks in. What a worthless piece of ****.

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