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David Desharnais Discussion Part II: The 'Stay on your Feet' Edition

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Old
05-08-2013, 05:42 PM
  #601
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Don't crush the guy. He did what they asked. He just can't hang as a small payer in the play offs. Especially with our injuries.

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05-08-2013, 06:06 PM
  #602
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Originally Posted by Prallchengher View Post
I heard Nashville needs a playmaking center of sorts. Any playmaker.
I like Craig smith ... But yeah no way for DD

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05-08-2013, 06:18 PM
  #603
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If the best he could do in a playoff game is -1 and 0pts while playing with our TWO best wingers... I'm just here hoping he comes in next year ready to play, because this year he's playing like a schmuck.

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05-08-2013, 06:33 PM
  #604
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Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
Use backward arguments all you want. The simple fact is that, of the players you mentioned, only Desharnais' game is one-dimensional. All of those players bring intangibles and have multiple facets to their games. Desharnais if not getting assists does not contribute anything else to the game. I can't understand why people don't see that. What games are you watching?
exactly others have some size , can check ,be physical

dd cant do squat

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05-08-2013, 06:49 PM
  #605
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
If the best he could do in a playoff game is -1 and 0pts while playing with our TWO best wingers... I'm just here hoping he comes in next year ready to play, because this year he's playing like a schmuck.
And the second he plays well.. you trade him.

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05-08-2013, 06:50 PM
  #606
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
If the best he could do in a playoff game is -1 and 0pts while playing with our TWO best wingers... I'm just here hoping he comes in next year ready to play, because this year he's playing like a schmuck.
He set them both up multiple times, yet I don't see you saying anything about their finish? Gallagher can get a pass, his energy too important but Pacioretty has been just as bad as Desharnais of late.

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05-08-2013, 07:03 PM
  #607
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Originally Posted by Hawkguy View Post
He set them both up multiple times, yet I don't see you saying anything about their finish? Gallagher can get a pass, his energy too important but Pacioretty has been just as bad as Desharnais of late.
I know Patches has been bad, but it's the DD thread and DD has been worse. And Patches is, like most scoring wingers, a product of his centreman and DD has been putrid.

Defend him all you like, he's been bad and we can all hope that either we get some assets for him in the off-season (which would almost certainly be a bad return) or hope he picks it up in the face of adversity and improves his game. We can agree on that, right?

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05-08-2013, 07:13 PM
  #608
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
I know Patches has been bad, but it's the DD thread and DD has been worse. And Patches is, like most scoring wingers, a product of his centreman and DD has been putrid.

Defend him all you like, he's been bad and we can all hope that either we get some assets for him in the off-season (which would almost certainly be a bad return) or hope he picks it up in the face of adversity and improves his game. We can agree on that, right?
We can agree he's been mostly poor this year. I've said that a million times.

I won't agree on trading him right away next season. I think it'd be a mistake to give up after one mediocre season.

However, I think he was pretty solid in Game #4. Hopefully he does even better in game #5.

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05-08-2013, 07:34 PM
  #609
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
I know Patches has been bad, but it's the DD thread and DD has been worse. And Patches is, like most scoring wingers, a product of his centreman and DD has been putrid.

Defend him all you like, he's been bad and we can all hope that either we get some assets for him in the off-season (which would almost certainly be a bad return) or hope he picks it up in the face of adversity and improves his game. We can agree on that, right?
Can you blame Patches? He has had to struggle for the last two months without a center, DD effectively KILLS any play when he touches the puck.

The best shifts that Patches played in the last two months were those two or three shifts he played with Pleks.

#FreePatchesFromDD

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05-08-2013, 07:43 PM
  #610
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Originally Posted by Gally and Chucky View Post
I like Craig smith ... But yeah no way for DD
I doubt Predators even consider it.

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05-08-2013, 08:11 PM
  #611
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The thing is the guy is not even showing emotion on the ice. I don't care how small you are, but if you're not scoring, at least try to play with lots of character. Throw the body around, play with grit and harass opposing players.

But no, on top of not scoring, he makes some lazy plays, hooking and holding. After being checked you see him taking alllll the time in the world to stand back up. Not even trying to retaliate and show some ego. Nothing, nada, niet, que dalle, O RIEN.

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05-08-2013, 08:26 PM
  #612
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Why is Gallagher so effective yet DD so putrid?

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05-08-2013, 08:32 PM
  #613
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Originally Posted by icerocket View Post
Why is Gallagher so effective yet DD so putrid?
Will you ask the same question next year if the reverse happens ? Because it might happen for all kinds of reasons.

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05-08-2013, 08:35 PM
  #614
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Originally Posted by WakeUpNHL View Post
Can you blame Patches? He has had to struggle for the last two months without a center, DD effectively KILLS any play when he touches the puck.

The best shifts that Patches played in the last two months were those two or three shifts he played with Pleks.

#FreePatchesFromDD
Wow! Desharnais is giving away Nicotine patches for free?

Where can we get them?

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05-08-2013, 08:37 PM
  #615
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I do understand all the arguments against DD even if I think some are pretty extreme.

But I also remember Plekanec getting top-3 TOI in 2008-09 while having a 39 points season. He was also having 3 min of PP TOI per game and was fifth in SH TOI (Behind Lapierre, Higgins, Kostopoulos and Lang).
He also did 0 points in PO. Still he did had the second total TOI behind Kovalev.

The next season, he did 70 points. He was 26 at that time.

The point is that we all agree that this was not DD best season and he may even demoted as far as TOI is concerned.
I think that we had a pretty good deal for the money with Desharnais this season. I am sure that MB does not want to trade him to see him score 60 points in another team.

This being said, I understand that some are upset with his TOI especially on the PP.
The coach is putting players on the ice based on a vision they have of this team. At this point, Eller has 24 years old (today) and will certainly have more TOI next season.
We also saw Eller and Galchenyuk having more PP TOI toward the end of the season.

Let's see how this pans out next season.
I do not think that giving up on Desharnais now in the answer.

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05-08-2013, 08:41 PM
  #616
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Originally Posted by Maltese View Post
Will you ask the same question next year if the reverse happens ? Because it might happen for all kinds of reasons.
It won't happen, I think Gallagher is more talented and a harder worker than Desharnais is. That doesn't mean Desharnais isn't a hard worker but no one can top Gallagher in that aspect. Gallagher is someone that you know what you're getting night in, night out.

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05-08-2013, 08:44 PM
  #617
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Originally Posted by icerocket View Post
Why is Gallagher so effective yet DD so putrid?
Gallagher is tough and DD isn't. Gallagher will go to the front of the net knowing he will be pounded by a D-man half a foot taller and 50 lbs heavier than him. When he gets knocked down he keeps bobbing up like a cork in water, knowing he will get pounded again. He hangs in there and by doing so creates chances and has the skill set to cash in. Toughness to me is a players willingness to pay the price to make a play, Gallagher has it. Its not just DD who doesn't have it, most players in the NHL don't have Gallaghers toughness and most Habs don't have it , including guys much bigger than Gallagher or DD. Gallagher also shows more energy. Doesn't mean DD cant play in the NHl , its just a smaller guy needs to be more tenascious to make up for his lack of size. Id say Dumont has tenacity and toughness too.

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05-08-2013, 08:44 PM
  #618
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Originally Posted by icerocket View Post
Why is Gallagher so effective yet DD so putrid?
Completely different kind of players besides their heights. Gallagher is simply much more athletic, even if he isn't the speed demon someone like a young Gionta was.

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05-08-2013, 08:48 PM
  #619
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So not only is DD small, he lacks the heart to compete at the highest level.

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05-08-2013, 08:58 PM
  #620
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Originally Posted by Maltese View Post
Will you ask the same question next year if the reverse happens ? Because it might happen for all kinds of reasons.
It could never happen. Desharnais has never in his life played with the grit that Gallagher does. Desharnais is the embodiment of soft where as Gallagher is the opposite. Teams are already focusing Gallagher harder than they ever have DD and he's still been effective because he drives the net.

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05-08-2013, 09:54 PM
  #621
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Imagine having a GM that could admit his mistake and trade a player he just signed, that would take cohones and would be a breath of fresh air.

The only one I know is Holmgren and most of us rip him for it, but in this case I could stand MB doing it!

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05-08-2013, 10:16 PM
  #622
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Originally Posted by 24get View Post
I do understand all the arguments against DD even if I think some are pretty extreme.

But I also remember Plekanec getting top-3 TOI in 2008-09 while having a 39 points season. He was also having 3 min of PP TOI per game and was fifth in SH TOI (Behind Lapierre, Higgins, Kostopoulos and Lang).
He also did 0 points in PO. Still he did had the second total TOI behind Kovalev.

The next season, he did 70 points. He was 26 at that time.

The point is that we all agree that this was not DD best season and he may even demoted as far as TOI is concerned.
I think that we had a pretty good deal for the money with Desharnais this season. I am sure that MB does not want to trade him to see him score 60 points in another team.

This being said, I understand that some are upset with his TOI especially on the PP.
The coach is putting players on the ice based on a vision they have of this team. At this point, Eller has 24 years old (today) and will certainly have more TOI next season.
We also saw Eller and Galchenyuk having more PP TOI toward the end of the season.

Let's see how this pans out next season.
I do not think that giving up on Desharnais now in the answer.

It's not only about his TOI......it's also about the team.

Why do you think Pacioretty had to stay with Desharnais all year long, even when things were clearly not working?

Cause we don't have anybody else who can play with him.

I think tha many agree that DD's offensive upsides are his only upsides. So he need to produce in order to be usefull to a team. So he need offensive players to play with him in order to produce.

BUT, he also need those winger to have decent size and some thoughness to create the time and space he absolutely can't create for himself and absolutely need to be effective.

Can't play with Gionta and we saw tha him and Gallagher on the sme line is not the best idea in the world, they got easily pushed around.

Pacioretty and Bourque are the only ones.....But even there, can't put Gionta and Gallagher on a same line with Plek, too small here again.

And the worst thing here....is that our better offensive winger prospects are Kristo, Hudon and Collberg. All of them under 6' (Dumont or Leblanc are kind of small too) . If DD can't be effective without big winger....then we don't have many options.

Habs can keep small players, just not all of them. It's suicide.

In order to keep DD, we must trade some of the Gallagher, Kristo, Hudon, Dumont, Collberg, Leblanc....and try to find some bigger winger on the market. But letting him go and still try to get some bigger winger would the best choice. And even if we keep DD as a winger, he will end up competing with those guys

It's not just about how he play...it's also about building a team that can win the Cup.
I don't see any reason to give up on the guy.....but i don't see any reaon to keep him either.

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05-08-2013, 11:04 PM
  #623
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Originally Posted by thebinne4pres View Post
It's not only about his TOI......it's also about the team.

Why do you think Pacioretty had to stay with Desharnais all year long, even when things were clearly not working?

Cause we don't have anybody else who can play with him.

I think tha many agree that DD's offensive upsides are his only upsides. So he need to produce in order to be usefull to a team. So he need offensive players to play with him in order to produce.

BUT, he also need those winger to have decent size and some thoughness to create the time and space he absolutely can't create for himself and absolutely need to be effective.

Can't play with Gionta and we saw tha him and Gallagher on the sme line is not the best idea in the world, they got easily pushed around.

Pacioretty and Bourque are the only ones.....But even there, can't put Gionta and Gallagher on a same line with Plek, too small here again.

And the worst thing here....is that our better offensive winger prospects are Kristo, Hudon and Collberg. All of them under 6' (Dumont or Leblanc are kind of small too) . If DD can't be effective without big winger....then we don't have many options.

Habs can keep small players, just not all of them. It's suicide.

In order to keep DD, we must trade some of the Gallagher, Kristo, Hudon, Dumont, Collberg, Leblanc....and try to find some bigger winger on the market. But letting him go and still try to get some bigger winger would the best choice. And even if we keep DD as a winger, he will end up competing with those guys

It's not just about how he play...it's also about building a team that can win the Cup.
I don't see any reason to give up on the guy.....but i don't see any reaon to keep him either.
Good post.

However, why a 4 year contract extension??
With the development of Eller and Chuckie, I can't see DD a hab past next year at most.
I'm afraid we have another 'Gomez' situation developing. Bergevin really f**ked up on this one.

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05-09-2013, 03:37 AM
  #624
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Imagine having a GM that could admit his mistake and trade a player he just signed, that would take cohones and would be a breath of fresh air.

The only one I know is Holmgren and most of us rip him for it, but in this case I could stand MB doing it!
I'm not sure that DD is tradeable.

His best case potential is 60 points when he gets privileged, big, scoring, linemates, offensive zone starts, easier opposition, plays a full 81 games, gets all the lucky bounces with an anomalous shooting percentage on his line, and PP time. He cannot play in the bottom 6, he cannot be the one to score goals himself, and he is a defensive liability.

In other words, he has negative value over replacement... and he is signed at 3.5 million per year for four more years.


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05-09-2013, 04:30 AM
  #625
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Originally Posted by WakeUpNHL View Post
Good post.

However, why a 4 year contract extension??
With the development of Eller and Chuckie, I can't see DD a hab past next year at most.
I'm afraid we have another 'Gomez' situation developing. Bergevin really f**ked up on this one.
Wow - Gomez was a situation because he was paid $7.4M and scored like 38 points and then a 24 point pace the next season. This season he was on pace for about 31. Desharnais, even when he was clearly struggling this year, was on pace for 48-points. Desharnais was also still being paid under $1M this year, which would put him pretty high in production per $$$.

He has to be a lot better though but we don't not have a Gomez situation, lol. Not even a little.

Also, Eller has definitely passed him. But I think Galchenyuk will be groomed as a winger for another couple of years. He's got good chemistry with Eller on top of that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsawce View Post
Imagine having a GM that could admit his mistake and trade a player he just signed, that would take cohones and would be a breath of fresh air.

The only one I know is Holmgren and most of us rip him for it, but in this case I could stand MB doing it!
I'm pretty sure 20 games isn't going to matter that much to Bergevin if he made a 4-year commitment. Bergevin has to know he's struggling this year, but he obviously saw something he liked.

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