HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie
Notices

David Desharnais Discussion Part II: The 'Stay on your Feet' Edition

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-10-2013, 05:29 AM
  #726
Masuli
Registered User
 
Masuli's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Turku, Finland
Country: Finland
Posts: 278
vCash: 500
the 4 year extension was too much that is to be agreed on but I do see why Bergevin wanted to keep him though. Galchenyak played well beacause coaches got him the preferable matchups. He played great, no doubt about that either but hes not ready...yet! He will be our #1 C but not next year and might not even be that in 2 years but he will. With little more grit, few years of age and some defence awareness he's gonna shine.

DD has what it takes him to be dependaple center at this point. He just needs to bring it at the start of the next season.

And no matter how much you want it. There are players in our roster that aren't going to be moved by MB. And like it or not DD is one of them (sadly).

Masuli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-10-2013, 05:37 AM
  #727
TennisMenace
Registered User
 
TennisMenace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Buffalo
Country: United States
Posts: 2,210
vCash: 500
We have to improve playoff hockey- trade DD and Gionta and get 4 new big Dmen. Insist cream puff Tinordi hit the gym.

TennisMenace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-10-2013, 05:41 AM
  #728
Masuli
Registered User
 
Masuli's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Turku, Finland
Country: Finland
Posts: 278
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TennisMenace View Post
We have to improve playoff hockey- trade DD and Gionta and get 4 new big Dmen. Insist cream puff Tinordi hit the gym.
And be like Ottawas defence? No way. Without Anderson Ottwas defence was as bad as ours. We rely on transition and puck movement. We do need 1 d who can clear the crease and skate but we don't need pilars standing in our own zone since they have nothing to offer for our system.

Masuli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-10-2013, 05:57 AM
  #729
Habs Icing
Formerly Onice
 
Habs Icing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Montreal
Posts: 8,818
vCash: 500
I was DD's biggest supporter but after these playoffs and seeing the makeup of this team, he needs to go.

Of DD, Gionta & Gallagher we can afford keeping only one. And I vote for Gallagher. Trade DD & Gionta.

Size matters. In this loss to Ottawa size wasn't the biggest reason but it was a major one and Ottawa wasn't even known for it's tough punishing team. Their big, physical defense exposed our three smurfs. Gallagher put up a valiant effort but we can't have three pint sized players on the same team. It's effing stupid. And neither of them has blinding speed.

But I have a sickening feeling that DD's contract will make it difficult to move him.

Habs Icing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-10-2013, 06:02 AM
  #730
Habs Icing
Formerly Onice
 
Habs Icing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Montreal
Posts: 8,818
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masuli View Post
And be like Ottawas defence? No way. Without Anderson Ottwas defence was as bad as ours.
Gionta
Prust
White
Eller
Patches

were all physically beaten into submission and onto the injury list.

DD
Ryder
Pleks
Gallagher
Diaz
Markov
Gorges
Bouillon

were all made ineffective with that "bad" Ottawa defence.

You may want to rethink your assessment of the Ottawa defence .

Habs Icing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-10-2013, 06:06 AM
  #731
Masuli
Registered User
 
Masuli's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Turku, Finland
Country: Finland
Posts: 278
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by onice View Post
Gionta
Prust
White
Eller
Patches

were all physically beaten into submission and onto the injury list.

DD
Ryder
Pleks
Gallagher
Diaz
Markov
Gorges
Bouillon

were all made ineffective with that "bad" Ottawa defence.

You may want to rethink your assessment of the Ottawa defence .
We got beaten by injuries, hot opposite goalie, inconsistent own goalie and VERY bad luck. Not because their D was so great.

Masuli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-10-2013, 06:08 AM
  #732
MXD
Registered User
 
MXD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In my appartments
Posts: 35,600
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by onice View Post
Gionta
Prust
White
Eller
Patches

were all physically beaten into submission and onto the injury list.

DD
Ryder
Pleks
Gallagher
Diaz
Markov
Gorges
Bouillon

were all made ineffective with that "bad" Ottawa defence.

You may want to rethink your assessment of the Ottawa defence .
Didn't knew Travis Moen played defense for the Sens.

MXD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-10-2013, 06:12 AM
  #733
Habs Icing
Formerly Onice
 
Habs Icing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Montreal
Posts: 8,818
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masuli View Post
We got beaten by injuries, hot opposite goalie, inconsistent own goalie and VERY bad luck. Not because their D was so great.
We got those injuries by tripping over the blue line, right?


Quote:
Originally Posted by MXD View Post
Didn't knew Travis Moen played defense for the Sens.
HUH?

Habs Icing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-10-2013, 03:03 PM
  #734
TRG
Bye Marky :(
 
TRG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Great City of Laval
Posts: 23,324
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
I don't fully agree but I also don't fully disagree. He's not afraid of contact but he still needs to add some muscle on that body, a bit like Eller last year and two years ago. And because of that, his defensive play is still not NHL level IMO. He could compensate that with good puck possession though.

He's still super young but what a stud he will be. Unreal talent.

TRG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-10-2013, 03:04 PM
  #735
TRG
Bye Marky :(
 
TRG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Great City of Laval
Posts: 23,324
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TennisMenace View Post
We have to improve playoff hockey- trade DD and Gionta and get 4 new big Dmen. Insist cream puff Tinordi hit the gym.
lol cream puff Tinordi.

TRG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-10-2013, 03:14 PM
  #736
Habsawce
Registered User
 
Habsawce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 28,785
vCash: 500
Defense needs to have a mixture of speed, strength and skill. Ours is simply missing the strength portion.

If you think about it we have the toughest part already taken care of with PK Subban and Markov being a PP beast. Really just need to find some meat with skill to round it out. It shouldn't be that difficult to build from what is already there into a contending caliber d corpse.

Habsawce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-10-2013, 04:34 PM
  #737
MXD
Registered User
 
MXD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In my appartments
Posts: 35,600
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by onice View Post

HUH?
White got injured when he collided into Moen.

MXD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-10-2013, 05:01 PM
  #738
Hackett
BAKAMAN
 
Hackett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,573
vCash: 500
DD has been very frustrating to watch since his new deal. He needs to prove himself all over again next year.

Hackett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-10-2013, 05:25 PM
  #739
icerocket
Registered User
 
icerocket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Atlantis
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,892
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TennisMenace View Post
We have to improve playoff hockey- trade DD and Gionta and get 4 new big Dmen. Insist cream puff Tinordi hit the gym.
What an embarrassing opinion.

icerocket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2013, 08:56 AM
  #740
jrk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 67
vCash: 500
I was comparing Martin St-Louis and David Desharnais stats and I found that Desharnais is pretty much on the same pace then Martin was in the first 4 years. Both started at the same age in the nhl. Next year Desharnais is suppose to have a realy good year to keep up with Martin St-Louis.

jrk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2013, 09:24 AM
  #741
WhiskeySeven*
Expect the expected
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 24,350
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrk View Post
I was comparing Martin St-Louis and David Desharnais stats and I found that Desharnais is pretty much on the same pace then Martin was in the first 4 years. Both started at the same age in the nhl. Next year Desharnais is suppose to have a realy good year to keep up with Martin St-Louis.
Because that is exactly how players develop.

WhiskeySeven* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2013, 09:32 AM
  #742
Em Ancien
Sexy 2nd Rounder
 
Em Ancien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Mount Real Life
Posts: 8,944
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Because that is exactly how players develop.
It's how it worked in NHL 2013 for him, so it only makes perfect sense.

Em Ancien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2013, 09:33 AM
  #743
MonkeyBusiness
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,642
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrk View Post
I was comparing Martin St-Louis and David Desharnais stats and I found that Desharnais is pretty much on the same pace then Martin was in the first 4 years. Both started at the same age in the nhl. Next year Desharnais is suppose to have a realy good year to keep up with Martin St-Louis.
It all makes sense now, Desharnais is really another Martin St-Louis in disguise. Because he certainly has the same skill, balance on his skates, skating ability, vision that St-Louis has.

MonkeyBusiness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2013, 10:32 AM
  #744
Stripper
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,218
vCash: 500
Other than Desharnais always being on his ass.. what exactly is the problem?

Pacioretty didn't play the way he should have... the kid now tries to pass the puck instead of going in front of the goalie and do his job (like last year).

So, stats wise, I looked Desharnais up and noticed that his numbers aren't THAT terrible...

2010-2011 - 43gp - 8g - 14a - 22p [in 81 game he would have had 41 points]
2011-2012 - 81gp - 16g - 44a - 60p
2012-2013 - 48gp - 10g - 18a - 28p [in 81 games he would have had 47 points]

*Before you try to deny my numbers, I obviously know that it even if he had that ratio, that it doesn't actually mean that he would have actually gotten that. So just drop it.*

So now the question is: what exactly were you guys expecting? Did you guys think the kid actually was our very own Martin St-Louis? That he'd reach the 70 point mark this year and keep it up like last year (especially with how Pacioretty played this year)?

I think you guys are the ones that are unreasonable and are over reacting.

Stripper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2013, 10:38 AM
  #745
The Gal Pals
Breaking Hab
 
The Gal Pals's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,850
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TennisMenace View Post
We have to improve playoff hockey- trade DD and Gionta and get 4 new big Dmen. Insist cream puff Tinordi hit the gym.
If you want to improve playoff hockey I totally understand trading DD. But your logic makes no sense. Gionta currently has the most playoff goals for a hab. And Pleks has a meagre 10 goals in 52 playoff games. Do we trade him too?

I think what you mean to say is that we need to add size up front.

The Gal Pals is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2013, 11:51 AM
  #746
Cyclones Rock
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,218
vCash: 500
[QUOTE=[B]Stripper;[/B]65822745]
Quote:
Other than Desharnais always being on his ass.. what exactly is the problem?

Pacioretty didn't play the way he should have... the kid now tries to pass the puck instead of going in front of the goalie and do his job (like last year).

So, stats wise, I looked Desharnais up and noticed that his numbers aren't THAT terrible...

2010-2011 - 43gp - 8g - 14a - 22p [in 81 game he would have had 41 points]
2011-2012 - 81gp - 16g - 44a - 60p
2012-2013 - 48gp - 10g - 18a - 28p [in 81 games he would have had 47 points]

*Before you try to deny my numbers, I obviously know that it even if he had that ratio, that it doesn't actually mean that he would have actually gotten that. So just drop it.*

So now the question is: what exactly were you guys expecting? Did you guys think the kid actually was our very own Martin St-Louis? That he'd reach the 70 point mark this year and keep it up like last year (especially with how Pacioretty played this year)?

I think you guys are the ones that are unreasonable and are over reacting.[/QUOTE]
Every fan base seems to need a whipping boy and DD is it (at least for many in the HF crowd).

The Habs were outscored 20-9 in the playoffs. DD was on the ice for 2 goals for and only one goal against (+1). Yet, all one seems to read on this board is about DD's "defensive liabilities". DD was on the ice for 1 of the 20 goals against. Conversely, Gallagher was a -7 in the 5 games and I can't recall a single post which suggested any defensive issues with him. Not saying that there are for sure, but the numbers sure would suggest that there might be a post or two pointing out his -7.


Last edited by Cyclones Rock: 05-11-2013 at 11:57 AM.
Cyclones Rock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2013, 11:57 AM
  #747
Et le But
Registered User
 
Et le But's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York
Country: Argentina
Posts: 19,190
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
Every fan base needs a whipping boy and DD is it (at least for many in the HF crowd).

The Habs were outscored 20-9 in the playoffs. DD was on the ice for 2 goals for and only one goal against (+1). Yet, all one seems to read on this board is about DD's "defensive liabilities". DD was on the ice for 1 of the 20 goals against. Conversely, Gallagher was a -7 in the 5 games and I can't recall a single post which suggested any defensive issues with him. Not saying that there are for sure, but the numbers sure would suggest that there might be a post or two pointing out his -7.
That's because Desharnais is never put out there in the defensive zone.

While your point is actually valid (Desharnais wasn't responsible for defensive breakdowns in this series), ignoring usage is a cardinal sin. The biggest issue with DD's play is that he can't be used in his own zone, forcing other lines there.

Et le But is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2013, 12:05 PM
  #748
Cyclones Rock
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,218
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
That's because Desharnais is never put out there in the defensive zone.

While your point is actually valid (Desharnais wasn't responsible for defensive breakdowns in this series), ignoring usage is a cardinal sin. The biggest issue with DD's play is that he can't be used in his own zone, forcing other lines there.
A wee bit over the top, eh? 2012-13 61% OZ starts, 2011-12 52%.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...34+45+46+63+67

The OZ/DZ start stats are some of the most cherry-picked, inaccurate representations of players. Neutral zone starts count, players often times come on the ice (and leave the ice) on the fly as well.

When someone can put together a stat which shows the overall entry point of a player on the ice, it may have some real meaning. I would guess that if one compares ALL entry points on the ice (OZ, DZ, neutral zone and on the fly), then DD might start 5 feet to the offensive side of the red line compared to maybe 5 feet back for, say, Plekanec.

The real difference in starting points for players just isn't as much as exclusive use OZ/DZ stats would suggest. That perspective might be the real cardinal sin. Mine would only be venal

Cyclones Rock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2013, 12:23 PM
  #749
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Country: United States
Posts: 16,315
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
A wee bit over the top, eh? 2012-13 61% OZ starts, 2011-12 52%.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...34+45+46+63+67

The OZ/DZ start stats are some of the most cherry-picked, inaccurate representations of players. Neutral zone starts count, players often times come on the ice (and leave the ice) on the fly as well.

When someone can put together a stat which shows the overall entry point of a player on the ice, it may have some real meaning. I would guess that if one compares ALL entry points on the ice (OZ, DZ, neutral zone and on the fly), then DD might start 5 feet to the offensive side of the red line compared to maybe 5 feet back for, say, Plekanec.

The real difference in starting points for players just isn't as much as exclusive use OZ/DZ stats would suggest. That perspective might be the real cardinal sin. Mine would only be venal
You make a valid point: DD should not be the only scapegoat.

DAChampion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2013, 01:29 PM
  #750
Milhouse40
Registered User
 
Milhouse40's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,349
vCash: 500
With Eller developping
With Galchenyuk developping
With both of them being better than him and bieng exactly what the Habs need.

Do anybody here think that DD's TOI will go up???

No, it will go down....same thing for PP TOI.

Do anybody here think that with less ice-time, less powerplay and probably not the help of the best winger on his side, that DD's productions will go up?

If his production drop. his value drop drastically, cause DD is only good for 2 things: Offensive production and hurting your team for his lack of size!!

Having 3 players on a top 6 under 5'9" is drastically undersized.
Two of them must eventually go.....i keep Gallagher.

It's simple physics.....Big guy push the little guy and the little guy fall.
Don't need to be a good player to push another one.

Poeple her think it was just a bad season......but this kind of production started in the last 10 games of the previous year. Teams knows who DD is and his weakness.....they didn't before his big streak!!

Milhouse40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:17 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. @2017 All Rights Reserved.