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David Desharnais Discussion Part II: The 'Stay on your Feet' Edition

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Old
03-07-2013, 03:59 PM
  #176
DAChampion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maelpj View Post
So at the start of the season, DD was playing against better oposition than he is now? Wow, I remember people bringing Corsi here and there at after 10 game showing how DD was facing the "worst" line each night, and you are saying his adversity have downgraded even more? Gosh, I guess other team are now dressing their AHL third line just to play against DD line.
DD was actually being challenged a bit more at the start of the season.

Right now DD has a much lower QoC than Galchebyuk, which I find absurd.

But maybe Therrien has a plan ...

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03-07-2013, 04:01 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
We started winning more?
I think we are winning the same as were before?

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Old
03-07-2013, 04:01 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post

But maybe Therrien has a plan ...
...Yeah....

Winning. And it actually works.

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03-07-2013, 04:02 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I think we are winning the same as were before?
We are winning more, as evidenced by the fact that we weren't first in the East before.

Besides, why would MT favor a player over the results of his team is totally beyond me.

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03-07-2013, 04:05 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
We are winning more, as evidenced by the fact that we weren't first in the East before.
I meant the win-loss record, which is more statistically significant.

You know why we are 1st? Because we have 3 more GP than Boston with 1 more point.


Last edited by Gary320: 03-07-2013 at 04:15 PM.
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Old
03-07-2013, 04:07 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I meant the win-loss record, which is more statistically significant.

You know why we are 1st? Because we have 3 more GP than Boston with 1 more point.
Otherwise, we would be 2nd (real 2nd).

Which is STILL winning, by the way.


Last edited by Gary320: 03-07-2013 at 04:15 PM.
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03-07-2013, 04:30 PM
  #182
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hopefully the adversity will be good for alex, as for DD I do think he needs some protection and in the future hopefully Alex takes the first line center from Davey boy

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03-07-2013, 08:42 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
I am also pretty certain that Eller will never be much more than a 40 point per year player even with power play time. He just doesn't appear to have a higher scorer's abilities to my eyes.
Bump :-)

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03-07-2013, 09:37 PM
  #184
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So per MAGodin twitter DD got Pat Brisson now for agent. Let's trade him before he ask for too much!!

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03-07-2013, 09:42 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Kenny Powders View Post
So per MAGodin twitter DD got Pat Brisson now for agent. Let's trade him before he ask for too much!!
Brisson isn't really known as one of those dick agents, is he? Better than him having Meehan or Walsh.

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03-07-2013, 09:46 PM
  #186
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Brisson isn't really known as one of those dick agents, is he? Better than him having Meehan or Walsh.
Anyone but Walsh.

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03-08-2013, 11:31 AM
  #187
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With the emergence of Lars Eller as a big, strong center, the obvious future of AG27 and the fact that Tomas Plekanec is heading into the prime years of his career, is DD51 needed long term?
Don't get me wrong, I like him but he is so easily knocked off the puck along with the fact that Bergevin knows we need to get bigger, I think he won't be around as early as next year. I could be wrong but I am right in one regard, you have to have big, strong centermen in your top lines if you want to compete for the cup.

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03-08-2013, 11:33 AM
  #188
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Anyone but Walsh.
I can't believe more players aren't getting Allan Walsh to represent them. I mean, who wouldn't want a social media ***** as their agent? A guy who disrespects everyone and gets into internet arguments due to his trolling is the epitome of a great agent.

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03-08-2013, 12:35 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Tyson View Post
With the emergence of Lars Eller as a big, strong center, the obvious future of AG27 and the fact that Tomas Plekanec is heading into the prime years of his career, is DD51 needed long term?
Don't get me wrong, I like him but he is so easily knocked off the puck along with the fact that Bergevin knows we need to get bigger, I think he won't be around as early as next year. I could be wrong but I am right in one regard, you have to have big, strong centermen in your top lines if you want to compete for the cup.


and I get crap for saying this

he is totally expendible on this team with the three above on our roster

people we have been waiting 20 effen years for a franchise type #1 and Galchy is ready next year to take over the #1 spot

Pleks is the perfect #2 , and Eller can be that shutdown 3 who can play with anyone and get some pp

that leaves DD , he cant play on the bottom 6 , no size , grit , hands or the game to play that role

and without PP time or top minutes he is useless in that role

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03-08-2013, 01:03 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Bump :-)
Yeah. He won a faceoff and Emelin makes a highlight reel pass on one of his assists. The other was a simple pass to the point which was the ultimate of secondary assists. Real Gretzyesque stuff

Nice tip in, though. Gets him up to an 11 goal yearly pace. Lights out, that pace.

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03-08-2013, 01:10 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
Yeah. He won a faceoff and Emelin makes a highlight reel pass on one of his assists. The other was a simple pass to the point which was the ultimate of secondary assists. Real Gretzyesque stuff

Nice tip in, though. Gets him up to an 11 goal yearly pace. Lights out, that pace.
If we were to start analyzing every point every forward got, we'd be saying the same for everyone.

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03-08-2013, 01:10 PM
  #192
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Lets keep this thread about DD, there's an Eller thread for a reason.

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03-08-2013, 01:24 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by onemorecup View Post


and I get crap for saying this

he is totally expendible on this team with the three above on our roster

people we have been waiting 20 effen years for a franchise type #1 and Galchy is ready next year to take over the #1 spot

Pleks is the perfect #2 , and Eller can be that shutdown 3 who can play with anyone and get some pp

that leaves DD , he cant play on the bottom 6 , no size , grit , hands or the game to play that role

and without PP time or top minutes he is useless in that role
same thing for me, people get angry when i try to explain that, Plekanec is lock for the second line, Eller can take the third line but we have to be carefull for the first line, Galchy may not be ready to take the first line next year so this is why i see a short term contract for DD but not a long term that compromize future of Gachy, I don't want to transform him to a winger because of DD, for the moment its ok because its less responsability for Galchy but they draft him to be the first line center. For the moment DD still the best playmaker but we have to look on the long term and unfortunately i don't think DD is the first center

maybe try DD on the wing...

and just to put some gas in the fire...DD made 60 pts and some people wants to trade Pleki, people forgot that Pleki never had true offensive wingers at the exeption of Kovy and Ak46 and he made 70 pts, i'm very curious what pleki could do with Patch and cole last year...and DD with a rotation with the others because Pleki did 52 pts ! imagine if he had two 30 goals wingers with him...maybe more than 60 pts imo

still...i see a shorterm contract for DD

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03-08-2013, 01:40 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
DD was actually being challenged a bit more at the start of the season.

Right now DD has a much lower QoC than Galchebyuk, which I find absurd.

But maybe Therrien has a plan ...
27 and 51`usage has been pretty similar, the differences in the QoC numbers are probably just noise at this point (20 games in QoC stats start to mean something but only big differences like what Pleks is facing vs what the others).

Therrien`s basic line strategy has been Plekanec in all the high leverage defensive situations that he can manage to get him out for, then have the other two top nine lines play offense. The 4th line is used tactically to take on lower leverage defensive situations or as a 2nd defensive option if Plekanec`s shift has been used up.

Tracking opposition manually, I`d say if anything Desharnais`2nd line faces better oppositon than Galchenyuk`s 3rd unit but their jobs are similar enough that the difference is probably mostly academic. To start the year Desharnais was playing a much more two-way oriented role as Prust-Gally-Gally were kept as far as possible from dangerous situations, but as the Eller-Galchenyuk connection proved themselves that became less of an issue.

The Boston game is pretty illustrative of the current matchup strategy. Plekanec was matched hard against their most dangerous line (Bergeron`s, which has a case for being the best overall line in the NHL right now). They avoided letting Bergeron get out against Desharnais or Eller`s lines, prefering to send White out to play conservative and kill time when they couldn`t get Plekanec against them. So Eller and Desharnais played against the less dangerous Krejci and Kelly lines for most of the night.

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03-08-2013, 02:02 PM
  #195
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I said it often and I say it again :

The main factor in deciding if DD remains here (unless he completely falls off the face of the Earth), is how much he'll ask for his next contract (and term).

1 - Anything not too high and below market value? DD probably signs long term, and remain here.

2 - Anything market value? DD is signed short term, and will have to earn his job for the next contract (with AG pushing hard).

3 - Anything too high? DD signed short term, with of obvious idea to trade him.

-------------

I'll also add another factor : Habs signings this summer.

The more money the Habs commit to UFA, bigger the chances DD remains here if he's in situation 1 (but lower the chances he remains here if in situation 2 and 3).

As of right now, I'd prefer having TP than DD on this team. However, I'd rather have DD and Corey Perry than TP and a 900K million dollar winger, unless that winger happens to be one of our young players and that young player isn't rushed.

(No hard maths here -- just exposing a situation)

Yeah, DD is flawed, but he doesn't hurt this team as long as he's paid accordingly.

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03-08-2013, 02:06 PM
  #196
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I don't necessarily agree that DD is so easy to knock off the puck. When he is on his game, he gets low around the boards, and works very hard. If he's going down, he tends to find a way to take the defender down with him, so its a cancelling act. He's not always going down because he gets out-muscled, I've often see him go down in desperation to maintain possession of the puck or to buy himself time for support from his teammates. I bet defenders find him a pretty big pain to play against.

Its similar to Gallagher except he possesses better agility and acceleration, which makes him even slipperier.

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03-08-2013, 02:22 PM
  #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MXD View Post
I said it often and I say it again :

The main factor in deciding if DD remains here (unless he completely falls off the face of the Earth), is how much he'll ask for his next contract (and term).

1 - Anything not too high and below market value? DD probably signs long term, and remain here.

2 - Anything market value? DD is signed short term, and will have to earn his job for the next contract (with AG pushing hard).

3 - Anything too high? DD signed short term, with of obvious idea to trade him.

-------------

I'll also add another factor : Habs signings this summer.

The more money the Habs commit to UFA, bigger the chances DD remains here if he's in situation 1 (but lower the chances he remains here if in situation 2 and 3).

As of right now, I'd prefer having TP than DD on this team. However, I'd rather have DD and Corey Perry than TP and a 900K million dollar winger, unless that winger happens to be one of our young players and that young player isn't rushed.

(No hard maths here -- just exposing a situation)

Yeah, DD is flawed, but he doesn't hurt this team as long as he's paid accordingly.
That's not fair though, Perry will cost 9m, Desharnais at least 2m. So would you rather have DD and Perry or Plekanec and a 6+m dollar winger.

Desharnais can only stay here long term if he can either adapt to playing wing, or one of Galchenyuk, Eller can't put it together offensively.

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03-08-2013, 02:25 PM
  #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MXD View Post
I said it often and I say it again :

The main factor in deciding if DD remains here (unless he completely falls off the face of the Earth), is how much he'll ask for his next contract (and term).

1 - Anything not too high and below market value? DD probably signs long term, and remain here.

2 - Anything market value? DD is signed short term, and will have to earn his job for the next contract (with AG pushing hard).

3 - Anything too high? DD signed short term, with of obvious idea to trade him.

-------------

I'll also add another factor : Habs signings this summer.

The more money the Habs commit to UFA, bigger the chances DD remains here if he's in situation 1 (but lower the chances he remains here if in situation 2 and 3).

As of right now, I'd prefer having TP than DD on this team. However, I'd rather have DD and Corey Perry than TP and a 900K million dollar winger, unless that winger happens to be one of our young players and that young player isn't rushed.

(No hard maths here -- just exposing a situation)

Yeah, DD is flawed, but he doesn't hurt this team as long as he's paid accordingly.
i agree with your situations at the exeption of that one. how much to you think DD will have...let's just said for exemple 3.5. It's juste 1.5 less than pleki...not sure its gonna make a big difference and in that situation who's gonna take the place of Pleki ? second line/ first line, PP, PK, play against big line...Pleki is a good two way center. I think that kind of player is really important in a team, thats why he have a 5 milion contract, because he do everything well

so i prefer TP with Perry than DD with Perry, i fwe need money trade Moen !!!anf if we are lucky maybe someone will take Kaberle

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Old
03-08-2013, 03:09 PM
  #199
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That's not fair though, Perry will cost 9m, Desharnais at least 2m. So would you rather have DD and Perry or Plekanec and a 6+m dollar winger.

Desharnais can only stay here long term if he can either adapt to playing wing, or one of Galchenyuk, Eller can't put it together offensively.
Yeah... I mean, you're totally right that my example was flawed.

It's just that, when the decision is made to sign or to not sign a player, the cost of opportunity (coût d'opportunité -- not sure if my English word is the good one) has to be taken in consdideration.

In other words, the cost of opportunity of NOT signing DD would be NOT having the difference between his salary and TP's salary for other players in the lineup.

(Not advocating trading TP -- just took the most relevant example -- comparing DD to a D-Men is certainly irrelevant in that situation).

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03-08-2013, 04:59 PM
  #200
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
Yeah... I mean, you're totally right that my example was flawed.

It's just that, when the decision is made to sign or to not sign a player, the cost of opportunity (coût d'opportunité -- not sure if my English word is the good one) has to be taken in consdideration.

In other words, the cost of opportunity of NOT signing DD would be NOT having the difference between his salary and TP's salary for other players in the lineup.

(Not advocating trading TP -- just took the most relevant example -- comparing DD to a D-Men is certainly irrelevant in that situation).
In English it's just "opportunity cost".

You also have to look at internal replacements in this case Galchenyuk or Eller. So you examine the dropoff (If there is one) of going from Desharnais to Galchenyuk or Eller and compare that dropoff to the money saved not re-signing him.

Personally I have a lot of faith in Eller's offensive potential so would only sign Desharnais to a 2 years at most unless we were getting a major discount.

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