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Old
03-07-2013, 10:58 PM
  #326
sunnyvale420
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My bad i swear phoenix threw 3.5 per for 3 at torres. Wonder why thats stuck in my head

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03-07-2013, 10:58 PM
  #327
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He's only making an extra 500k more than his old contract, was 500k really too much to ask for a guy who played his heart out for the team in our Cup run?
ten years

ten years

ten year contract

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03-07-2013, 11:00 PM
  #328
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ten years

ten years

ten year contract
still 2 less than luongo's 12 year contract.

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03-07-2013, 11:04 PM
  #329
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Lou's value is still fairly high and Jake Marksom got lit up in Florida today. MG needs to get this right. It's going to have to be an easy deal or a home run or he will feel some serious heat

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03-07-2013, 11:07 PM
  #330
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ten years

ten years

ten year contract
Don't forget the $10M cap penalty when he retires. That'd be an awesome contract to have for a guy who's currently on a 34 point pace.

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03-07-2013, 11:17 PM
  #331
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Originally Posted by Goldrunner View Post
Lou's value is still fairly high and Jake Marksom got lit up in Florida today. MG needs to get this right. It's going to have to be an easy deal or a home run or he will feel some serious heat
I still think it will be one of Florida, Tampa, or Philly at the draft. Florida and Tampa have to figure out if Lindback or Markstrom should be their starting goalie next year or if they need to go out and get Luongo, while Philly will be after Luongo once they dump Bryz. Outside chance of Detroit if they can't extend Howard, or NYI if Luongo waives to go there.

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03-07-2013, 11:18 PM
  #332
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Don't forget the $10M cap penalty when he retires. That'd be an awesome contract to have for a guy who's currently on a 34 point pace.
ehrhoff is singlehandedly carrying the sabres like nobody else

id kill to have him on the canucks right now, but i can't sign contracts in hindsight and gillis made the right choice

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03-07-2013, 11:20 PM
  #333
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He's only making an extra 500k more than his old contract, was 500k really too much to ask for a guy who played his heart out for the team in our Cup run?

The team didnt mind having Malhotra making 2.5m taking faceoffs, or Ballard 4.2m to be a depth defenceman.

I agree with re-sign Ehrhoff, MG's ego/pride/stubborness got in the way of that i believe.

Im sure Ehrhoff wanted to re-sign, but he wanted to get paid and rightfully so after helping the team's PP be tops of the leauge.

MG tried to lowball offer him and now he's playing for another team and our PP has never been the same.
I agree. The loss of Ehrhoff has been critical to our PP.

The loss of Salo has also been devastating.

Throw in Ryan Kesler's injury woes and you now have a mediocre PP.

However, GMMG has somehow convinced himself that the salaries Salo & Ehrhoff would be better spent on Florida alumni like Booth and Garrison.

I've always felt that Gillis jumped the shark after the 2011 Finals. The Canucks were 1 game away from the Cup, but Gillis tinkered with the makeup of the team a little too much. Now the team has lost some of its chemistry. Now the PP suffers as a result of his gaffes.

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Old
03-07-2013, 11:33 PM
  #334
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Originally Posted by sunnyvale420 View Post
My bad i swear phoenix threw 3.5 per for 3 at torres. Wonder why thats stuck in my head
no biggie, but really 1.75 mil per for 2, is nothing outrageous.

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03-07-2013, 11:34 PM
  #335
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ehrhoff is singlehandedly carrying the sabres like nobody else

id kill to have him on the canucks right now, but i can't sign contracts in hindsight and gillis made the right choice
Might have something to do with him getting some of the softest minutes on the entire team. When Ehrhoff generally lines up against the poorer Corsi players on the opposing team it's not unexpected that his teammates' ratings will suffer when not playing with him.

Most of the Canucks have drop offs when they're not playing with Tanev but I don't think anyone would suggest he's carrying the team.

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03-07-2013, 11:35 PM
  #336
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I agree. The loss of Ehrhoff has been critical to our PP.

The loss of Salo has also been devastating.

Throw in Ryan Kesler's injury woes and you now have a mediocre PP.

However, GMMG has somehow convinced himself that the salaries Salo & Ehrhoff would be better spent on Florida alumni like Booth and Garrison.

I've always felt that Gillis jumped the shark after the 2011 Finals. The Canucks were 1 game away from the Cup, but Gillis tinkered with the makeup of the team a little too much. Now the team has lost some of its chemistry. Now the PP suffers as a result of his gaffes.
Salo was bad in his last year here. Couldn't stay healthy (what's new?) and was just dragging down Edler. I'd still take Garrison over Salo to this day.

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03-07-2013, 11:40 PM
  #337
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Originally Posted by GaryBettman View Post
I agree. The loss of Ehrhoff has been critical to our PP.

The loss of Salo has also been devastating.

Throw in Ryan Kesler's injury woes and you now have a mediocre PP.

However, GMMG has somehow convinced himself that the salaries Salo & Ehrhoff would be better spent on Florida alumni like Booth and Garrison.

I've always felt that Gillis jumped the shark after the 2011 Finals. The Canucks were 1 game away from the Cup, but Gillis tinkered with the makeup of the team a little too much. Now the team has lost some of its chemistry. Now the PP suffers as a result of his gaffes.
I'm not a fan of Gillis' moves the last 2 seasons, and thought at the time Ehrhoff should have been his number one priority to sign as he was the ideal fit as a puck rushing D-man who QB'd the powerplay.

But at the moment the main reason the Canucks look nothing like the 2011 version is they have a giant black hole at center ice. The team rode the one-two-three punch of Hank-Kesler-Manny big time. Two of those guys are gone and replaced by a fourth liner (Lappy), a winger (Raymond) and a rather mediocre rookie (Schroeder). With center depth like that the Canucks are a playoff bubble team unless the goalies are playing elite. Lately Luongo and Schneider have been inconsistent so the team is barely squeaking out points.

I keep seeing it posted time and again how "super deep and talented the Canucks are". The media keeps repeating it ad nauseum as well. It's just not true. Wishing it won't make it so either as long as Kesler remains out. Even when he gets back they still need another NHL center as Schroeder is not someone you want to count on for big minutes in the playoffs.

At some point Gillis is going to have to replace Malhotra. It's not his fault the situation turned out this way (typical Canuck luck!!) but it cannot go unresolved if Gillis wants to contend this season.

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Old
03-08-2013, 12:03 AM
  #338
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Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
Might have something to do with him getting some of the softest minutes on the entire team. When Ehrhoff generally lines up against the poorer Corsi players on the opposing team it's not unexpected that his teammates' ratings will suffer when not playing with him.

Most of the Canucks have drop offs when they're not playing with Tanev but I don't think anyone would suggest he's carrying the team.
there's a difference between a tanev "couple points with a third of the team" and the dropoff i linked there. yeah, its obviously a consideration, but he's clearly driving play and is a big net positive. i dont see anybody else on that team coming close to that effect with just some soft minutes

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Old
03-08-2013, 12:19 AM
  #339
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We need to go back to being a puck possession team that puts skill and transition above everything else. The 4th line can be goons who cares, but our D and top forward lines need to be able to play the way Christian Ehrhoff used to when he would at times dictate the pace of the game with his elite skating and passing.

We have two goalies making over 9 million, there's a 4 million player addition at minimum.

We have a 4.2 million dollar number 6 d-man that is a healthy scratch.

We have a 4.2 million dollar heads down grinder of a forward with injury issues and no chemistry or hockey sense.

That's just bad management IMO, this team has been poorly put together for this season. We you're moving wingers to center because your top C prospect is tiny and not making any positive impact you know you're in trouble, as you do when Max Lapierre is one of your TWO face off options. Bad depth.

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03-08-2013, 12:28 AM
  #340
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Originally Posted by NugentHopkinsfan View Post
We need to go back to being a puck possession team that puts skill and transition above everything else. The 4th line can be goons who cares, but our D and top forward lines need to be able to play the way Christian Ehrhoff used to when he would at times dictate the pace of the game with his elite skating and passing.

We have two goalies making over 9 million, there's a 4 million player addition at minimum.

We have a 4.2 million dollar number 6 d-man that is a healthy scratch.

We have a 4.2 million dollar heads down grinder of a forward with injury issues and no chemistry or hockey sense.

That's just bad management IMO, this team has been poorly put together for this season. We you're moving wingers to center because your top C prospect is tiny and not making any positive impact you know you're in trouble, as you do when Max Lapierre is one of your TWO face off options. Bad depth.
MG has created a 'cap hell' that he has to dig his way out of. Sometimes there is such a thing as being too patient.

He is a good GM, and hes going to to have to prove it again this offseason.

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03-08-2013, 12:35 AM
  #341
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MG has created a 'cap hell' that he has to dig his way out of. Sometimes there is such a thing as being too patient.

He is a good GM, and hes going to to have to prove it again this offseason.
He's good at moving depth players around. He hasn't brought in an impact forward since 2008. Pretty easy to be a GM with a core in its prime that wants to live here.

I am terrified to find out what Gillis would do if he had to bring in first line players on his own.

I feel sorry for all the players that took hometown discounts so we could blow it all on Booth and Ballard who bring basically nothing to the team.

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03-08-2013, 02:04 AM
  #342
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Interesting I did not know this, is there a source? All I remember MG say was they looked at previous cup winners and it was the type of transaction that they had made, or made them more like previous winners, something like that.
I could be wrong but I remember it from somewhere, though I can't find it. Of course it's totally possible that he had no say in it at all, but we do know he was also in the war room on deadline day.

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03-08-2013, 03:12 AM
  #343
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Add to that not re-signing or giving Torres that extra year to a list of screwups.

He underestimated the chemistry Lappy and Torres had in the cup run, those 2 were great for us.

Now we get a revolving door in the 4th line wing.
Do you guys even read the thread before posting?

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03-08-2013, 04:02 AM
  #344
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I find it funny.

Everyone is crying we lost Ehrhoff. But had we signed him at that contract and let Bieksa go.

The second Ehrhoffs play slipped everyone would whine about us signing him to this massive deal, or if Bieksa went elsewhere and played better than Ehrhoff everyone would be questioning the decision.

It was the right decision, Bieksa was alot more important to our run, Edler is a 50 point defenseman, he doesn't bring quite the offensive game Ehrhoff does but when on his game he does have high offensive skills and is a fine replacement while bringing alot more in other areas.


Everyone wants to shift back to puck possession but I like the moves we have made, getting bigger with guys like Booth and Garrison is a great thing for the playoffs, I especially like Garrison as he is a big guy, reliable and really good defensively, he is also really good at handling big bodies and has solid mobility for being as big and stocky as he is. Now we just need to start using his bomb of a shot to our advantage more.

Basically if you look at what has won cups, the moves MG has made to this team have pushed us closer into that model. We just need a spark and to change coaches like LA did, and perhaps add in our holes which are 3rd line center and a LH faceoff/PK specialist.

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03-08-2013, 04:12 AM
  #345
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I don't buy the ehrhoff thing. First, all of our guys have combined to make up his offense.

Edler produced the same or better before during and after Ehrhoff.

His partner is Sulzer. With Buffalo the way they are, why wouldn't he be with Meyers who has struggled for example?

I haven't seen anything new or particularly impressive about him when I've watched the sabres play.

For his second year on a team with a good top line, and an all-star goalie you'd think that if he drove play so much that they'd be winning more...

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03-08-2013, 04:21 AM
  #346
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Don't forget the $10M cap penalty when he retires. That'd be an awesome contract to have for a guy who's currently on a 34 point pace.
Oh come on. The 10-year deal only surfaced once we were done negotiating with him and his rights ended up in Buffalo. Had we been willing to go past our internal "Bieksa cap" and pay him 5.25 over 5 years, he probably would have stayed. Isn't that what reports were suggesting?

I'm not panicking about the team right now but I certainly never liked losing Ehrhoff. Sure, the guy wasn't perfect defensively (certainly adequate for a top4 dman), but he brought swagger to our blueline that is not matched by anyone on our D corps. I think our team looks a lot better than they're playing right now if they could just make something happen on the power play. Ehrhoff would be huge there. I like Edler but he just doesn't have the confidence on the line that Ehrhoff does/did.

We have certainly shifted a bit from the type of team we were in 2011. Take out skill guys like Samuelsson/Ehrhoff and bring in Booth/Garrison. It's a shift for sure. Maybe we're more prepared for the grind of playoff hockey but do we have the skill? Stay tuned.

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03-08-2013, 04:32 AM
  #347
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I find it funny.

Everyone is crying we lost Ehrhoff. But had we signed him at that contract and let Bieksa go.

The second Ehrhoffs play slipped everyone would whine about us signing him to this massive deal, or if Bieksa went elsewhere and played better than Ehrhoff everyone would be questioning the decision.

It was the right decision, Bieksa was alot more important to our run, Edler is a 50 point defenseman, he doesn't bring quite the offensive game Ehrhoff does but when on his game he does have high offensive skills and is a fine replacement while bringing alot more in other areas.


Everyone wants to shift back to puck possession but I like the moves we have made, getting bigger with guys like Booth and Garrison is a great thing for the playoffs, I especially like Garrison as he is a big guy, reliable and really good defensively, he is also really good at handling big bodies and has solid mobility for being as big and stocky as he is. Now we just need to start using his bomb of a shot to our advantage more.

Basically if you look at what has won cups, the moves MG has made to this team have pushed us closer into that model. We just need a spark and to change coaches like LA did, and perhaps add in our holes which are 3rd line center and a LH faceoff/PK specialist.
What about when Detroit, Pittsburgh and Chicago won cups ? They resembled the 11 team

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03-08-2013, 04:56 AM
  #348
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I don't buy the ehrhoff thing. First, all of our guys have combined to make up his offense.

Edler produced the same or better before during and after Ehrhoff.

His partner is Sulzer. With Buffalo the way they are, why wouldn't he be with Meyers who has struggled for example?

I haven't seen anything new or particularly impressive about him when I've watched the sabres play.

For his second year on a team with a good top line, and an all-star goalie you'd think that if he drove play so much that they'd be winning more...
I am not convinced its erhoff either like some claim, the first part up until boston we were PP leaders in the 2011-2012 season, first in the league if i remember, right after the boston game it dried up, we hit a terrible rut it was bad. So we had 3 solid months of excellent PP work and lead the league without erhoff. Our PP was so good for the first part of the 2011-2012 season we still finished (tied) 2nd in PP goals last year despite barely scoring after the boston game.

One could also draw the conclusion the PP slips whenever kesler is missing or unhealthy playing injured.


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03-08-2013, 06:35 AM
  #349
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I'm not a fan of Gillis' moves the last 2 seasons, and thought at the time Ehrhoff should have been his number one priority to sign as he was the ideal fit as a puck rushing D-man who QB'd the powerplay.

But at the moment the main reason the Canucks look nothing like the 2011 version is they have a giant black hole at center ice. The team rode the one-two-three punch of Hank-Kesler-Manny big time. Two of those guys are gone and replaced by a fourth liner (Lappy), a winger (Raymond) and a rather mediocre rookie (Schroeder). With center depth like that the Canucks are a playoff bubble team unless the goalies are playing elite. Lately Luongo and Schneider have been inconsistent so the team is barely squeaking out points.

I keep seeing it posted time and again how "super deep and talented the Canucks are". The media keeps repeating it ad nauseum as well. It's just not true. Wishing it won't make it so either as long as Kesler remains out. Even when he gets back they still need another NHL center as Schroeder is not someone you want to count on for big minutes in the playoffs.

At some point Gillis is going to have to replace Malhotra. It's not his fault the situation turned out this way (typical Canuck luck!!) but it cannot go unresolved if Gillis wants to contend this season.

While centre ice is in flux, it's not the major reason this team is struggling. Nor has it precipitated this drop to bubble team status. It's a part of the problem, but it isn't the major reason. The biggest reason is the plan, not the personnel.

This team has more than enough of talent. I'm one of "those people". 8 top6 level producers. That's without Kassian and Schroeder. 2 of those producers are Cs, and one is missing. We're feeling the effects of that, but compared to other "bubble teams", this team is still sitting pretty overall.

The system is too myopic. The main focus of the offense is to mimic a dump and chase style, where the low cycle is everything. The problem with this style is that the Canucks don't feel it prudent to risk play in the middle of the ice. Thereby severely limiting their offense by default. Further, it doesn't fit with the light-weight speedsters on this team.

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03-08-2013, 06:47 AM
  #350
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While centre ice is in flux, it's not the major reason this team is struggling. Nor has it precipitated this drop to bubble team status. It's a part of the problem, but it isn't the major reason. The biggest reason is the plan, not the personnel.

This team has more than enough of talent. I'm one of "those people". 8 top6 level producers. That's without Kassian and Schroeder. 2 of those producers are Cs, and one is missing. We're feeling the effects of that, but compared to other "bubble teams", this team is still sitting pretty overall.

The system is too myopic. The main focus of the offense is to mimic a dump and chase style, where the low cycle is everything. The problem with this style is that the Canucks don't feel it prudent to risk play in the middle of the ice. Thereby severely limiting their offense by default. Further, it doesn't fit with the light-weight speedsters on this team.
AV is capable of changing the system. His Nonis years prove that. I don't think its the system. We just have no talent outside the Sedins. Kesler doesn't even have that much

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